Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#406

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:57 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:This here speaks volumes:
I dont think he was
anything like what the self- appointed "apostle" Paul concocted as having been
I think I understand where you are getting your badly informed view on the bible, Christianity and Christ.
Again, prease exprain?
:pound:

Audie,

when you speak like that I cant help but think of this hilarious scene from A Christmas Story.

One horse open sray :pound: :pound: :pound: :pound:
That's funny! Including that they are Japanese,

Anyway here is Chinese doing "jingle bells" and , "wish you a merry Christmas" light uh right...

Youtube, Hong kong merry christmas 2011, awesome timelapse
Japanese, Chinese. Same Ting.

Reminds me of a joke:
A plane leaves Los Angeles airport under the control of a Jewish captain.

His copilot is Chinese. It's the first time they've flown together, and an awkward silence between the two seems to indicate a mutual dislike.


Once they reach cruising altitude, the Jewish captain activates the auto-pilot, leans back in his seat, and mutters, 'I don't like Chinese.'


'No rike Chinese?' asks the copilot, '....why not?'

'You people bombed Pearl Harbor, that's why !'

'No, no,' the co-pilot protests, 'Chinese not bomb Peahl Hahbah! That Japanese, not Chinese.'


'Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese... doesn't matter, you're all alike!'

There's a few minutes of silence.


'I no rike Jews either!' the copilot suddenly announces.


'Oh yeah, why not?' asks the captain.


'Jews sink Titanic.'


'What? That's insane! Jews didn't sink the Titanic!' exclaims the captain, 'It was an iceberg!'

'Iceberg, Goldberg, Greenberg, Rosenberg ...no mattah... all same.'
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#407

Post by Rob » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:58 pm

Maybe we should make a new thread about Paul and Luke and discuss whether or not we can trust their accounts and why.

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#408

Post by Audie » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:26 pm

Go for it!

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#409

Post by MrSpock » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:04 am

Here is my short answer to the OP

I think the TOE bullies people to "have to" believe it in order to not appear backwards, stupid, and weak minded. Does this keep people from examining the word of God? Probably, but chances are these people wouldn't be interested anyhow in what God has to say (at that point in time, maybe later).

I can't help but believe many people in the TOE camp need this theory because they want to totally remove God from the picture. Or, at the very least, they want people to admit the book of Genesis are all nice fairy tales to read at night to your children, much like Cinderella.

As for theistic evolution, while it may sound like a nice compromise, to me it is totally unsubstantiated and two, it forces one to conclude the book of Genesis is not to be take literally. I for one find the latter totally unacceptable. I'm convinced God wants to communicate his word and will to man and inspired Moses to write that book. I see no reason to not believe Adam was a real person as was Eve and their beginning was that abrupt and not from primordial soup. To support this for me, Paul cites Adam in his writings (book of Romans). Do you think he would site Adam if there were no such Adam? I don't think so.

I hope this helps.
Spock out

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#410

Post by neo-x » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:36 am

MrSpock wrote:Here is my short answer to the OP

I think the TOE bullies people to "have to" believe it in order to not appear backwards, stupid, and weak minded. Does this keep people from examining the word of God? Probably, but chances are these people wouldn't be interested anyhow in what God has to say (at that point in time, maybe later).

I can't help but believe many people in the TOE camp need this theory because they want to totally remove God from the picture. Or, at the very least, they want people to admit the book of Genesis are all nice fairy tales to read at night to your children, much like Cinderella.

As for theistic evolution, while it may sound like a nice compromise, to me it is totally unsubstantiated and two, it forces one to conclude the book of Genesis is not to be take literally. I for one find the latter totally unacceptable. I'm convinced God wants to communicate his word and will to man and inspired Moses to write that book. I see no reason to not believe Adam was a real person as was Eve and their beginning was that abrupt and not from primordial soup. To support this for me, Paul cites Adam in his writings (book of Romans). Do you think he would site Adam if there were no such Adam? I don't think so.

I hope this helps.
Spock out
For a christian to wholly accept evolution and all that it may entail is a not an easy task. You essentially end up with HUGH problems.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#411

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:52 am

neo-x wrote:
MrSpock wrote:Here is my short answer to the OP

I think the TOE bullies people to "have to" believe it in order to not appear backwards, stupid, and weak minded. Does this keep people from examining the word of God? Probably, but chances are these people wouldn't be interested anyhow in what God has to say (at that point in time, maybe later).

I can't help but believe many people in the TOE camp need this theory because they want to totally remove God from the picture. Or, at the very least, they want people to admit the book of Genesis are all nice fairy tales to read at night to your children, much like Cinderella.

As for theistic evolution, while it may sound like a nice compromise, to me it is totally unsubstantiated and two, it forces one to conclude the book of Genesis is not to be take literally. I for one find the latter totally unacceptable. I'm convinced God wants to communicate his word and will to man and inspired Moses to write that book. I see no reason to not believe Adam was a real person as was Eve and their beginning was that abrupt and not from primordial soup. To support this for me, Paul cites Adam in his writings (book of Romans). Do you think he would site Adam if there were no such Adam? I don't think so.

I hope this helps.
Spock out
For a christian to wholly accept evolution and all that it may entail is a not an easy task. You essentially end up with HUGH problems.

No pun intended?

LOL

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#412

Post by neo-x » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:03 am

:D lol
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#413

Post by Audie » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:18 am

MrSpock wrote:Here is my short answer to the OP

I think the TOE bullies people to "have to" believe it in order to not appear backwards, stupid, and weak minded. Does this keep people from examining the word of God? Probably, but chances are these people wouldn't be interested anyhow in what God has to say (at that point in time, maybe later).

I can't help but believe many people in the TOE camp need this theory because they want to totally remove God from the picture. Or, at the very least, they want people to admit the book of Genesis are all nice fairy tales to read at night to your children, much like Cinderella.

As for theistic evolution, while it may sound like a nice compromise, to me it is totally unsubstantiated and two, it forces one to conclude the book of Genesis is not to be take literally. I for one find the latter totally unacceptable. I'm convinced God wants to communicate his word and will to man and inspired Moses to write that book. I see no reason to not believe Adam was a real person as was Eve and their beginning was that abrupt and not from primordial soup. To support this for me, Paul cites Adam in his writings (book of Romans). Do you think he would site Adam if there were no such Adam? I don't think so.

I hope this helps.
Spock out
A theory of course does not bully anyone. But that technicality aside, I am sorry if you feel bullied. As an atheist in a Xtian nation, i kinda get the idea.

There are of course a great many Christians who do not have any trouble with the ToE.
And some Christians who feel that to get a life saving transfusion for their child is against God's law.

But to the pressure. One would feel some of it if he held that various obsolete ideas are true (astrology, say) or that others, well established, like say, plate tectonics are not acceptable to them.

The place where looking uneducated and cultish would come in would be if, say, one were a Mormon and insisted that the cities of the BoM are really really there, waiting to be found.

Here is another: it is fine, recommended even, to be skeptical.

But if you said "I dont believe in germs coz I cant see them". that would not be something that would get respect. Invites ridicule, really.

If one wants to dispute some or all of the ToE, that is fine too! Even recommended.
But if a person doesnt know what they are talking about, and says they dont believe it for no better reason than the one given for germs, well...

that is a way to look stupid, uneducated, backwards, or what have you.

If people make use of the bible to justify slavery, or make use of ToE to justify their idea that there is no god, or use atomic theory to blow up Nagasaki, none of that has the least to do with the validity of theory, or the bible.

Nobody takes the bible literally, of course, so that seems a non-issue to me.

As for there being no reason you see not to accept the sudden creation of all, including full grown adam, it may be because you dont see any. Its not because there isnt any.

Id think that a good compromise between "literal or lie" and tossing it all out might be to at times cross check ones interpretation of the bible against outside sources.

The KJV for example says Paul was bitten by a viper on Malta. Well, there are no vipers on Malta. So maybe it wasnt a viper and maybe its not Malta.

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#414

Post by MrSpock » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:42 am

Audie,

Two things you said that got my attention:

1). "This is a Christian nation." I wonder? Are you certain? I think there is a difference between church goer and the true born again believer. Sure, there seem to be plenty of the former, but not nearly as many of the latter.

2). "No one takes the bible literally anymore." Really? News to me. I believe God has a remnant of people who believe in a real Adam and eve, the flood, the parting of the Red Sea, and of course the resurrection of Jesus CHRIST.

Oh, and the viper in Malta....

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ta-.507396

Maybe?

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#415

Post by RickD » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:56 am

As an atheist in a Xtian nation, i kinda get the idea.
And some Christians who feel that to get a life saving transfusion for their child is against God's law.
Nobody takes the bible literally, of course, so that seems a non-issue to me.
The KJV for example says Paul was bitten by a viper on Malta. Well, there are no vipers on Malta. So maybe it wasnt a viper and maybe its not Malta.
Audie, the above quotes from you lead me to believe you are not educated enough to be talking about Christianity or the bible.

First,
The US is not a Christian nation. Its is a free nation that allows all religions to practice.

Second,
Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones you are referring to that are against blood transfusions. FYI, JWs ARE NOT Christians. They are a cult.

Third,
Plenty of people "take the bible literally".

Fourth,
Jac already addressed the issue of the viper here.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#416

Post by Rob » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:59 am

MrSpock wrote:Audie,
Oh, and the viper in Malta....

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ta-.507396

Maybe?
I read that exact article in my research of Acts 28 and Malta yesterday, but find it doubtful that it was a different island. The island they reference is WAY off course and doesn't make sense with the rest of Luke's written account, IMO.

Please see my "Was Paul a False Apostle?" thread for more detail.

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#417

Post by Audie » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:20 pm

MrSpock wrote:Audie,

Two things you said that got my attention:

1). "This is a Christian nation." I wonder? Are you certain? I think there is a difference between church goer and the true born again believer. Sure, there seem to be plenty of the former, but not nearly as many of the latter.

2). "No one takes the bible literally anymore." Really? News to me. I believe God has a remnant of people who believe in a real Adam and eve, the flood, the parting of the Red Sea, and of course the resurrection of Jesus CHRIST.

Oh, and the viper in Malta....

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ta-.507396

Maybe?
"Christian nation" is just shorthand for saying they are everywhere here.

Unless you take "Jesus is a lamb" as, you know, baa baa, then you dont take it literally either.

As for the viper, if he'd been bitten by a viper, it would not have "clung".
The dont do that. Too many improbabilities piled atop eachother for the story to be true.

Others say 'viper" is a wrong translation. Or that Malta is, or both.

It gets to being kind of a "George Washington's hatchet" kind of story.

Any comment on the substance of my post tho?

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#418

Post by Audie » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:22 pm

RickD wrote:
As an atheist in a Xtian nation, i kinda get the idea.
And some Christians who feel that to get a life saving transfusion for their child is against God's law.
Nobody takes the bible literally, of course, so that seems a non-issue to me.
The KJV for example says Paul was bitten by a viper on Malta. Well, there are no vipers on Malta. So maybe it wasnt a viper and maybe its not Malta.
Audie, the above quotes from you lead me to believe you are not educated enough to be talking about Christianity or the bible.

First,
The US is not a Christian nation. Its is a free nation that allows all religions to practice.

Second,
Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones you are referring to that are against blood transfusions. FYI, JWs ARE NOT Christians. They are a cult.

Third,
Plenty of people "take the bible literally".

Fourth,
Jac already addressed the issue of the viper here.
Cute, but full of it.

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#419

Post by Audie » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:25 pm

Audie wrote:
MrSpock wrote:Audie,

Two things you said that got my attention:

1). "This is a Christian nation." I wonder? Are you certain? I think there is a difference between church goer and the true born again believer. Sure, there seem to be plenty of the former, but not nearly as many of the latter.

2). "No one takes the bible literally anymore." Really? News to me. I believe God has a remnant of people who believe in a real Adam and eve, the flood, the parting of the Red Sea, and of course the resurrection of Jesus CHRIST.

Oh, and the viper in Malta....

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ta-.507396

Maybe?
"Christian nation" is just shorthand for saying they are everywhere here. Dont lose sight of the point. If you've felt beset by the minority of people who accept ToE as good science, then I can empathize, living in a majority Christian mileau.

Unless you take "Jesus is a lamb" as, you know, baa baa, then you dont take it literally either. (I didnt say 'anymore" btw)

As for the viper, if he'd been bitten by a viper, it would not have "clung".
The dont do that. Too many improbabilities piled atop eachother for the story to be true.

Others say 'viper" is a wrong translation. Or that Malta is, or both.

It gets to being kind of a "George Washington's hatchet" kind of story.

Any comment on the substance of my post tho?

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Re: Does Evolution and Science draw people away from God?

#420

Post by RickD » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:27 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
As an atheist in a Xtian nation, i kinda get the idea.
And some Christians who feel that to get a life saving transfusion for their child is against God's law.
Nobody takes the bible literally, of course, so that seems a non-issue to me.
The KJV for example says Paul was bitten by a viper on Malta. Well, there are no vipers on Malta. So maybe it wasnt a viper and maybe its not Malta.
Audie, the above quotes from you lead me to believe you are not educated enough to be talking about Christianity or the bible.

First,
The US is not a Christian nation. Its is a free nation that allows all religions to practice.

Second,
Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones you are referring to that are against blood transfusions. FYI, JWs ARE NOT Christians. They are a cult.

Third,
Plenty of people "take the bible literally".

Fourth,
Jac already addressed the issue of the viper here.
Cute, but full of it.
What? What are you talking about Audie? You are simply wrong on those four assertions you made. It just shows your ignorance on the bible and Christianity.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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