new study on nde's says they are real

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new study on nde's says they are real

#1

Post by bippy123 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:17 pm

Im sure some of you have been following AWARE which is the largest near death experience study ever undertaken. Well this story just came out today and just as I have been hearing about in the rumors, Doctor Sam Parnia who was just speaking at atheist/skeptic conferences a few years ago has started to change his mind about NDE's as a results of his Aware study which was conducted over many years with thousands of patients. This is gonna be giving atheist/materialist/skeptics nightmares. Parnia went into this study originally as someone who believed that nde's were only hallucinations



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 80195.html

Life after death? Largest-ever study provides evidence that 'out of body' and 'near-death' experiences may be real

There is scientific evidence to suggest that life can continue after death, according to the largest ever medical study carried out on the subject.


A team based in the UK has spent the last four years seeking out cardiac arrest patients to analyse their experiences, and found that almost 40 per cent of survivors described having some form of “awareness” at a time when they were declared clinically dead.

Experts currently believe that the brain shuts down within 20 to 30 seconds of the heart stopping beating – and that it is not possible to be aware of anything at all once that has happened.

But scientists in the new study said they heard compelling evidence that patients experienced real events for up to three minutes after this had happened – and could recall them accurately once they had been resuscitated.

Dr Sam Parnia, an assistant professor at the State University of New York and a former research fellow at the University of Southampton who led the research, said that he previously that patients who described near-death experiences were only relating hallucinatory events.

One man, however, gave a “very credible” account of what was going on while doctors and nurses tried to bring him back to life – and says that he felt he was observing his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Speaking to The Telegraph about the evidence provided by a 57-year-old social worker Southampton, Dr Parnia said: “We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes.

“The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

“He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”

Dr Parnia’s study involved 2,060 patients from 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria, and has been published in the journal Resuscitation.

Of those who survived, 46 per cent experienced a broad range of mental recollections, nine per cent had experiences compatible with traditional definitions of a near-death experience and two per cent exhibited full awareness with explicit recall of “seeing” and “hearing” events – or out-of-body experiences.

Dr Parnia said that the findings of the study as a whole suggested that “the recalled experience surrounding death now merits further genuine investigation without prejudice”.

Dr Jerry Nolan, editor-in-chief of the journal which published the research, said: “The researchers are to be congratulated on the completion of a fascinating study that will open the door to more extensive research into what happens when we die.”


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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#2

Post by bippy123 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:17 pm

To understand the poor state of affairs that is neuro science , this interview between alex tsakiris and Patricia churchland shows us the kind of university professors that our tax dollars are paying for.

She is a professor of the philosophy of neuroscience and in her book she claimed that there is a material neural explanation for near death experiences , and even sites doctor Pim van Lommel as agreeing with her view .

When alex points out to her that he has in fact interviewed Lommel and was about to show her how in fact this wasn't lommels case and that in fact he totally disagreed with her as he believes that Nde's aren't produced by the brain , and he believes that this is evidence for the soul and alex asks her to defend her position , she hangs up on him lol

He then gets her back on the phone a second time and and he asks her to defend the twisting if lommels position suddenly she pretends that her audio isn't working . Then alex gets her back a third time on the phone and instead of answering his assertion she accuses him of playing games with her :pound:

He then emails her and asks her to defend what she said in her book on Lommel at which point she stops responding to him .
Watch and see how even professors ignore the evidence that shows that Nde's aren't caused by a dying brain and in fact show compelling evidence as having a spiritual aspect to it .

Enjoy folks
http://youtu.be/7a6ZaivvCnE

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#3

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:40 am

bippy123 wrote:To understand the poor state of affairs that is neuro science , this interview between alex tsakiris and Patricia churchland shows us the kind of university professors that our tax dollars are paying for.

She is a professor of the philosophy of neuroscience and in her book she claimed that there is a material neural explanation for near death experiences , and even sites doctor Pim van Lommel as agreeing with her view .

When alex points out to her that he has in fact interviewed Lommel and was about to show her how in fact this wasn't lommels case and that in fact he totally disagreed with her as he believes that Nde's aren't produced by the brain , and he believes that this is evidence for the soul and alex asks her to defend her position , she hangs up on him lol

He then gets her back on the phone a second time and and he asks her to defend the twisting if lommels position suddenly she pretends that her audio isn't working . Then alex gets her back a third time on the phone and instead of answering his assertion she accuses him of playing games with her :pound:

He then emails her and asks her to defend what she said in her book on Lommel at which point she stops responding to him .
Watch and see how even professors ignore the evidence that shows that Nde's aren't caused by a dying brain and in fact show compelling evidence as having a spiritual aspect to it .

Enjoy folks
http://youtu.be/7a6ZaivvCnE
I think she's drunk personally.
Clearly, she's not one who is use to rational dialogue and debate.
She got her nose out of joint when he chuckled at a response and then went downhill from there.

BUT, there seems to be a confusion over what mere consciousness actually is which is kind of surprising.
Your consciousness can't be drunk, under the influence of drugs or hormones during puberty.
"You" can be affected for sure, but if you're still responding then you're consciousness.

I'm not closer to understanding her views... but I'm not taken to care much either.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#4

Post by Storyteller » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:10 am

I was actually looking into NDE`s last night. Spooky!

One question.... you are considered brain dead after 3 minutes, is there anything in the fact that he was aware for 3 minutes?

Personally I believe in NDE`s. I`m really glad it`s something that is being taken seriously and looked into. I think there are many, many credible stories out there along with the frauds. I found a site last night with people`s experiences on it (will post the link if I can find it) and there were some beautiful, haunting stories on there, a lot of which rang true for me.

I came across a book by Dannion Brinkley called Secrets of the Light (his website is here .. www.dannion.com ) but in my honest opinion the guy is a fraud. He charges for readings, charges for his "revelations" and there is doubt about the validity of his story http://www.examiner.com/article/dannion ... y-the-lies

Found this too..
http://www.newsweek.com/proof-heaven-do ... life-65327

I think we will find the answers one day, well we all will one way or the other but I love the thought that eventually we can prove that concsiousness does indeed go on after death.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#5

Post by bippy123 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:36 pm

Storyteller wrote:I was actually looking into NDE`s last night. Spooky!

One question.... you are considered brain dead after 3 minutes, is there anything in the fact that he was aware for 3 minutes?

Personally I believe in NDE`s. I`m really glad it`s something that is being taken seriously and looked into. I think there are many, many credible stories out there along with the frauds. I found a site last night with people`s experiences on it (will post the link if I can find it) and there were some beautiful, haunting stories on there, a lot of which rang true for me.

I came across a book by Dannion Brinkley called Secrets of the Light (his website is here .. http://www.dannion.com ) but in my honest opinion the guy is a fraud. He charges for readings, charges for his "revelations" and there is doubt about the validity of his story http://www.examiner.com/article/dannion ... y-the-lies

Found this too..
http://www.newsweek.com/proof-heaven-do ... life-65327

I think we will find the answers one day, well we all will one way or the other but I love the thought that eventually we can prove that concsiousness does indeed go on after death.

Annette , the first link I posted shows that he was clearly having this nde during the period of a non functional brain . The man had a very accurate veridical nde where he described everything and everyone in the room. He even had a sheet pulled over his groin area and this took one nurse out of his normal visual area of sight yet he described the nurse accurately . He said that when his soul popped out of his body it drifted to a corner of the room where he saw everything and everyone around him. What's more important isnthatbue saw a device and heard it bleep twice .

That device was set to bleep every 3 minutes after his heart failure. 2 bleeps = 3 minutes
This is also peer reviewed so strict protocols were taken to ensure everything was done right.

How do you explain materialistically conscious awareness during a period of having a non functional brain .
The answer is you can't .

As far as the skeptiko interview with professor churchland, she was completely decimated in an area she is not only supposed to be an expert in but taught at in a major university.

This is why I keep harping in the fact that we are in a materialistic paradigm where professors are ridiculed if they speak up against this paradigm , no matter how strong the evidence is against materialsm , but when you get one if these professors ina one on one like Alex did with her , her ignorance and dogmatism show showed as clear as day.

Imagine if her undergrad students saw this interview :mrgreen:

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#6

Post by Storyteller » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:42 pm

Sorry bips, my bad, didnt read your post properly.

Exciting stuff!
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#7

Post by bippy123 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:04 pm

Storyteller wrote:Sorry bips, my bad, didnt read your post properly.

Exciting stuff!
No worries Annette :)

Yes very exciting stuff and it's only going to get more exciting because almost all the evidences seem to be headed in one direction.

Remember also that doctor parnia is an agnostic and very conservative with his opinions on this. The fact that he has said that he is already asking for more funding for aware part2 tells us how he feels aboit Nde's since he said at the beginning if the study that if he doesn't see anything extraordinary in the evidence he would close the study in 3 years. The study went on fir 5 years and now he's looking to do an aware part 2 study.

He is no longer invited to speak at atheist conferences . Gee I wonder why ? :mrgreen:

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

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Post by Storyteller » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:14 pm

Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#9

Post by bippy123 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:38 pm

Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
Interesting isn't it Annette .
I believe that aware 2 is going to show even more evidence for survival of consciousness during physical death.
Parnia who is an agnostic and was originally a skeptic of Nde's who originally believed that they were hallucinations created bY the mind is no longer calling them near death experiences .

He is now calling them actual death experiences. This is coming from a man that is considered one of the most conservative researchers of Nde's which means he is extremely careful about making outlandishly wild statements about Nde's.

The other problem with the hallucination theory is how do you explain veridical Nde's this way ?
Veridical Nde's are Nde's in which an nde experiencer floats outside his body and sees something which is verified by outside witnesses as having actually happened ?

The veridical nde skeptic is then forced to arguing that not only was the patient hallucinating but the doctor and hospital staff were all experiencing the same hallucination which is clearly ridiculous.

Then you have shared death experiences which are talked about much less in the medical community but are even more fascinating because the patent as well as loved Ones in the room have the same nde even though the patients loved ones are perfectly healthy

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

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Post by bippy123 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:40 pm

Here is part of the article on shared death experiences .
And remember Annette that doctor moody is another agnostic so skeptics can't use the bias believer argument against him ;)
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence09.html

One of the strangest type of near-death experiences (NDEs) involve people who are not near-death at all. However, because they are in close proximity to a dying loved one, they often experience a portion of their NDE. Such experiences are called "shared death experiences" (SDEs). While this type of phenomenon does not provide solid scientific evidence for the reality of out-of-body existence, they do provide excellent circumstantial evidence - especially if more than two people are involved. The following information comes from some of the top near-death researchers on the subject of SDEs.

Dr. Raymond Moody's continuing research of NDEs, led him to a completely new phenomenon called the "shared death experience" which he documented in his book, Glimpses of Eternity: An Investigation Into Shared Death Experiences. This is a phenomenon where a NDE is actually shared by someone who is not dying, but who is emotionally connected or in close proximity to someone who is concurrently in the "life/death transition." These kind of NDEs attain a higher validity when it occurs where there is significant physical and/or social distance between the two individuals. At no time is there any indication that the experiencers is himself in any discernible medical distress. Typically, the experience accompanies an individual who is dying through sudden and unexpected means, the sense being that of rendering assistance to an otherwise confused individual. P.M.H. Atwater has this to say about shared:


"There are cases in which several experiencers seem to share in each other's episode; that is to say they have the same or similar elements, scenario type, or basic storyline. Usually these are encountered when two or three people are involved in the same accident at the same time or are in the same general section of the hospital at the same time. Sometimes these states are experienced singly (one individual is not aware of the other during the episode, but later learns that both apparently had the same scenario). Sometimes the people involved are aware of each other, and are able to confirm the extent of that awareness after they are able to compare their separate stories." (P.M.H. Atwater)

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#11

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:40 pm

Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
You're quite optimistic. ;)
Where there's a (free) will, there's a way.
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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#12

Post by bippy123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:21 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
You're quite optimistic. ;)
Where there's a (free) will, there's a way.
Correct Kurieuo , and the good Lord will never take our free will from us , but at the same time he will always leave a trail of bread crumbs for anyone that truly wants to find him :)

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

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Post by Storyteller » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:54 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
You're quite optimistic. ;)
Where there's a (free) will, there's a way.
I am indeed :)

There is a lot to be optimistic about though, isn`t there?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

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Post by Storyteller » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:58 am

bippy123 wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
You're quite optimistic. ;)
Where there's a (free) will, there's a way.
Correct Kurieuo , and the good Lord will never take our free will from us , but at the same time he will always leave a trail of bread crumbs for anyone that truly wants to find him :)
Took me a while to stop looking for the bread Bips but I did eventually notice the breadcrumbs. Couldn`t see for looking.

I really do think we are on the verge of something incredible. The fact that these findings are scientific and from atheists is simply stunning! I could understand it if they were from believers, you could argue that belief will make them find these things but they`re not believers! I wonder if any of them will come to Christ because of this? Wouldn`t that be something?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: new study on nde's says they are real

#15

Post by bippy123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:21 am

Storyteller wrote:
bippy123 wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Know what bips? Tie this in with the way things are going with the shroud and I dont think people can doubt God for too much longer.

I am beyond excited!
You're quite optimistic. ;)
Where there's a (free) will, there's a way.
Correct Kurieuo , and the good Lord will never take our free will from us , but at the same time he will always leave a trail of bread crumbs for anyone that truly wants to find him :)
Took me a while to stop looking for the bread Bips but I did eventually notice the breadcrumbs. Couldn`t see for looking.

I really do think we are on the verge of something incredible. The fact that these findings are scientific and from atheists is simply stunning! I could understand it if they were from believers, you could argue that belief will make them find these things but they`re not believers! I wonder if any of them will come to Christ because of this? Wouldn`t that be something?
Actually Annette , doctor parnia is an agnostic but I see ur point .
As far as u looking for bread crumbs Annette , isn't it a wonderful journey :)
I remember when my passion was ancient animals of the past that I used to get so excited when paleontologists used to make a new discovery , but that all pales in comparison to our mighty lord and creator.

How can anyone compare anything else to Christ loving us enough to die on the cross for our sins .
This is perfect agape love

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