There are clear iq and physical differences between races

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Car
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There are clear iq and physical differences between races

#1

Post by Car » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:34 am

Yes we deny it we ignore it,we don't make comment's about how black people dominate the running competitions,we don't make comment's about why Asians do not have so much competition in Olympics.
But if there are clear physical differences between races in sports,is there also a an intelligence difference?Yes a lot of iq tests prove it ,it looks to me that race exists and we evolved different characteristics for our survival,but why God make so many physical differences between races? I mean how can you make someone less intelligent than the other?

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#2

Post by RickD » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:48 am

Not to mention that I got the poop end of the stick regarding my height. When I get to heaven, I'm gonna have a word or two with the big guy. I'm constantly teased and ridiculed about my short stature. GOD IS NOT FAIR!!!!!
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#3

Post by Philip » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:58 am

Not to mention that I got the poop end of the stick regarding my height. When I get to heaven, I'm gonna have a word or two with the big guy. I'm constantly teased and ridiculed about my short stature. GOD IS NOT FAIR!!!!!
But God knew EXACTLY what He was doing when he made you, Rick, as, in contrast, a much-less impressive number of BIG clowns can fit in the clown car as compared to lower-altitude clowns like yourself. :wave: Oh, and you can be fired farther in a cannon - how cool is THAT? :P

And don't even get me going about how us tall guys face job discrimination every time we apply for a position in bars featuring dwarf tossing. :pound:

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#4

Post by PeteSinCA » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:58 am

Maybe God is more a fan of gymnastics, where East Asians often do rather well. Or maybe God isn't a sports fan at all? Of course, if you look at height differences from a survival of the fittest perspective, one would think the large populations of East Asians would suggest that height and survival have a slight relationship at most.

As for a certain race and IQ, life, education and interests choices accounts for the differences. And of course there is the little question of whether assuming the validity of what such tests measure isn't actually begging the question. IOW, the choice of what defines normal intelligence pre-selects against certain interests and life environments and in favor of others.
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

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Post by Dudeacus97 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:37 pm

Something tells me that some atheist forum is going to link this to show how "ignorant" the people at God & Science are.
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#6

Post by Philip » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:30 am

Sorry, Rick, poor, out-of-control Saturday night "humor." :roll: Really riffing on the absurdity of implying that our many differences as human beings are ones of superior/inferior or more capable/less capable, IN THE EYES OF GOD. I'm sure we were made with certain attributes for specific purposes. While men tend to look at our differences with prejudice, a sense of superiority, negatively or with insecurity, God sees otherwise. While He didn't make us all the same or per society's ever-changing ideals - physically and otherwise - He didn't make mistakes, either. But in some people - say one born blind or seriously handicapped - understanding 'God's purposes is not possible until we are with Him in Eternity. Such cases leave us with many questions. And we have to constantly remind ourselves that God's plans are not just about NOW but are also about Eternity.

I am a musician and am virtually deaf in one ear. Yet God gives so many who could care less about the wonderful nuances of music, perfect hearing. Why, I don't know - but I'm sure it has nothing to do with intended unfairness or God loving others more than me. It just doesn't work like that.

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#7

Post by RickD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:09 pm

Philip wrote:
Sorry, Rick, poor, out-of-control Saturday night "humor." Really riffing on the absurdity of implying that our many differences as human beings are ones of superior/inferior or more capable/less capable, IN THE EYES OF GOD. I'm sure we were made with certain attributes for specific purposes. While men tend to look at our differences with prejudice, a sense of superiority, negatively or with insecurity, God sees otherwise. While He didn't make us all the same or per society's ever-changing ideals - physically and otherwise - He didn't make mistakes, either. But in some people - say one born blind or seriously handicapped - understanding 'God's purposes is not possible until we are with Him in Eternity. Such cases leave us with many questions. And we have to constantly remind ourselves that God's plans are not just about NOW but are also about Eternity.
We're each different, with different strengths and different gifts. The original post is full of assumptions. I don't like the use of "races" in this way. There is one human race. To say that blacks as a "race" dominate sprinting competitions, is too general. It's specifically those of west African decent that dominate sprinting races. While those of other African heritage don't have any advantage in short sprints. That tells me something else is logically the reason for dominance, other than just the color of skin. And claiming iq tests show one "race" is more intelligent than another, doesn't take into consideration, the inherent bias in those iq tests.

Also, in one part of the op, Car wrote:
it looks to me that race exists and we evolved different characteristics for our survival,but why God make so many physical differences between races?
Isn't this a contradiction? On one hand, car says different "races" evolved different characteristics to survive. And on the other hand, he asks why God made so many physical differences.
Philip wrote:
I am a musician and am virtually deaf in one ear.
What?
Philip wrote:
I am a musician and am virtually deaf in one ear.
What? :mrgreen:
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#8

Post by Philip » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:02 pm

Yep, I'm a half deaf guitarist whom reads music VERY poorly. Ironically, I play mostly by "ear" (due to genetics and one really, INSANELY loud :esurprised: ZZ Top concert, back in '73 - ears rang for three weeks!).

But we're all basically mutts, aren't we. We all came down from Adam and then Noah and family. Even if you believe in TE or macroevolution, you have to concede that we all have mutual ancestors. And so what is race? Usually it is perceived as skin color or skin color plus culture. And DNA analysis shows surprising geographic/genetic connections in populations that one wouldn't assume.

Athleticism has powerful cultural influences - sports revered amongst certain peoples will always show them to produce a comparably high number of those excelling at a given sport. Of course, with all races, there will be those of exceptional abilities and physical attributes. The problem is that people always speak about race in terms of generalities while also trying to explain specific individuals - often negatively.

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#9

Post by Ivellious » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:05 pm

As a student of biology (specifically one who has taken high-level courses in evolution and genetics), let me start by saying that overall, race is a non-biological concept. Yes, different races have different physical structures, some are more predisposed to illness or genetic defect, and some groups of people have various physical capabilities that others do not. But, by and large, the genetic differences between races are minimal at best. Race is an old notion that people use to define their ancestry, but from a scientific perspective we are all one species, and not a collection of different sub-species.

Now, those physical differences between races are actually very real. It isn't racist or wrong to say that most Jamaicans have a huge genetic advantage over other races when it comes to sprinting. People of recent African descent are genetically superior distance runners. It is absolutely true that the vast majority of people of western European descent, no matter how much they trained and worked at it, could never become runners of the caliber of those races. Examples like these exist in every race. An amazing example, in my opinion, are the people who live in the Himalayan mountains. These people have essentially evolved to live in that environment with very thin air. While literally anyone from any other part of the world requires extra oxygen to climb those mountains, the natives simply do not.

Now, these genetic variances do not insinuate any connection can be drawn between race and intellect. First of all, there is no known genetic basis for pure intellect (as far as I know). This is not all that hard to look at in your own life. Highly intelligent parents have children who simply aren't as smart. Parents who aren't very smart have kids who go on to be professors and doctors and lawyers.

Second, actually judging intelligence is a farce in and of itself. IQ tests are flawed in so many ways, for one. Second, education level, social standing, the environment in which you are raised, and personal interests all factor into how "book smart" people become. And how does one factor in other types of intelligence into IQ tests? Sure, they might measure raw computational ability, but can it judge creativity, spacial awareness, attention to detail, or other valuable innate skills that an individual might have? Nope. Let's face it, both Einstein and Michelangelo and Beethoven were geniuses in their respective fields (physics and art and music, respectively). But geniuses in certain fields don't always have the same type of intelligence that Einstein had. Does that make them dumb? No, but an IQ test might say that they are nonetheless.

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#10

Post by Car » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:29 am

Ok then explain this to me why Black Africans didn't have written language or a calendar or did not build a mechanical device before they got contact with outsiders?
Also why Hispanic people do better than Africans in iq tests I mean they are also getting racism right?

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#11

Post by RickD » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:06 am

car wrote:
Ok then explain this to me why Black Africans didn't have written language or a calendar or did not build a mechanical device before they got contact with outsiders?
This seems to me like you are saying "Black Africans" aren't as intelligent as other people who had a written language or calendar, or mechanical devices. That's quite a leap, if that's what you're saying.
car wrote:
Also why Hispanic people do better than Africans in iq tests I mean they are also getting racism right?
If you take any general population, and make the iq test bias towards a certain group, then it may appear that another group isn't as intelligent. I hope you can see that saying Hispanics are more intelligent than Africans because an iq test says so, is pretty ignorant.

Car, it looks like you haven't really thought this topic through too well.
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#12

Post by B. W. » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:08 am

Car wrote:Ok then explain this to me why Black Africans didn't have written language or a calendar or did not build a mechanical device before they got contact with outsiders?
Also why Hispanic people do better than Africans in iq tests I mean they are also getting racism right?
Well a Negro African surviving in the bush demonstrates pure genius at subsistence, whereas, the Ivy League educated snob would die in such environment in a matter of days.

It is all a matter of perspective...

IQ scores don't show the brilliance of working the Government welfare system to ones best advantage either all devised to have such folks remain dependent and subservient to the democrat plantation model for the inner city.

Poor schools, single parent, high crime, all play a part in IQ scores. Instead of looking at the real reason why - the democrat voting block plantation model - IQ scores will remain low compared to the liberal Ivy League plantation owners.

y:-?
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#13

Post by Philip » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:41 am

Is someone attempting to say God gave peoples of certain skin colors less natural intelligence and mental abilities than those of other races? Physical/cosmetic differences He most certainly distributed. But mental/intelligence differences between races? That is far from ever being proven. And if God regards one man as another man, spiritually/positionally, why would He handicap any certain race? And, by the way, such speculation ignores the fact that, genetically, there are very few populations of pure race.

What really bugs me is when people want to assert that certain races are morally superior to other races. When they detail the negative actions of various individuals or groups, they so often have the urge to blame the race as opposed to observing that, in this or that specific case, either THAT or THOSE particular individuals involved exhibited negative or harmful behavior. I see this on both sides with those harboring white or black racial prejudices. Do white racists ever consider that Adolph Hitler, one of the 20th century's most evil monsters, was WHITE? They see the race of others as the cause of every imagined evil and slight but never seem to consider monsters from their own race. I see native Americans whom assert that American Indians of the 17-19th centuries were so much more noble, honest and honorable than the evils of those in the white/European races - and yet, despite sinful white government treatment and broken promises, warfare between tribes was a long-practiced sport of atrocities, massacres, thievery, slave-holding (of black, white and Indian slaves) - all sorts of evils were practiced - and all of which practices long preceded the arrival of Europeans.

Point is, NO race is inherently/naturally any more or less moral than any other race. But we constantly see racists views from all stripes asserting that THEIR race IS. And so if there is no actual racial purity in the vast majority of people, why would we expect the cosmetics of skin color and physical features to correlate with natural intelligence?

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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#14

Post by RickD » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:46 am

One thing I think we all can agree on, is that God made men more intelligent than women*. :dig:



Signed,

Anonymous :bag:


*except for Hana. She's an Alberta Einstein.
John 5:24
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Re: There are clear iq and physical differences between race

#15

Post by Philip » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:46 pm

Yes, there has to be a reason why there weren't any CHICK Apostles? Right? Just kidding - probably just an oversight. :esmile:

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