Does the universe have a purpose

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Ukranianlys
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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#16

Post by Ukranianlys » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:50 am

Thank you guys for all the wonderful Responses, While I would conclude that the universe does have a purpose now thanks to all the reading I've done, However I feel that I will forever be plagued with the uncertainty of "God or the Multiverse"

I will admit I avoided the question as my best response to it was "It only continues to beg the question, who made the multiverse?" and "What hard physical evidence is there for the multiverse"

Well earlier this morning I found an article where they feel they have finally found the first piece of evidence for the multiverse and that my Friends left me very unsettled. I would love to think that god made the universe, But if this continues and they find more evidence for the multiverse, then what good will it be to go against the evidence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... c-map.html

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#17

Post by cubeus19 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:08 am

Hello, to help you find good answers to the multiverse thing, do a search for apologist and cosmologist Jeff Zweerink, he's connected with Reasons to Believe, which is a sister site to this one, www.reasons.org. There you can find some of his articles that he has done on the multiverse, he also has a really good book called "Who is afraid of the multiverse" and if you are connected to facebook, you can add him onto your list and ask him questions regarding this yourself. From what I've seen he does respond quite often to people who have these type of questions. So let me know if that helps. GB.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#18

Post by Silvertusk » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:04 am

Ukranianlys wrote:Thank you guys for all the wonderful Responses, While I would conclude that the universe does have a purpose now thanks to all the reading I've done, However I feel that I will forever be plagued with the uncertainty of "God or the Multiverse"

I will admit I avoided the question as my best response to it was "It only continues to beg the question, who made the multiverse?" and "What hard physical evidence is there for the multiverse"

Well earlier this morning I found an article where they feel they have finally found the first piece of evidence for the multiverse and that my Friends left me very unsettled. I would love to think that god made the universe, But if this continues and they find more evidence for the multiverse, then what good will it be to go against the evidence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... c-map.html

Reasons to believe response for that:
http://www.reasons.org/podcasts/science ... multiverse

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#19

Post by SnowDrops » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:56 pm

La Volpe wrote:I feel like if someone is truly an athiest, that they would be a heartless, selfish person. I mean if there's no God and life is temporary why not just please yourself, without caring about other people? I mean they believe they are going to die and nothing will happen, some atheists claim they wish to make a difference in other peoples lives, which is a flawed statement because their lives would be just as meaningless, and then eventually the world would end and everything humanity did would've been pointless.

An atheistic view of purpose and meaning is extremely depressing...
There are plenty of nice atheists out there... who are lying to themselves. I've heard many atheists accept morality being subjective, or a purposeless universe, etc and yet eventually you hear them turn around and talk about "moral issues", rights, "making a difference", etc.
No one can really accept any of that, even if it's true.
The first step to learning is to admit that you don't know.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#20

Post by Silvertusk » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:24 pm

Ukranianlys wrote:Thank you guys for all the wonderful Responses, While I would conclude that the universe does have a purpose now thanks to all the reading I've done, However I feel that I will forever be plagued with the uncertainty of "God or the Multiverse"

I will admit I avoided the question as my best response to it was "It only continues to beg the question, who made the multiverse?" and "What hard physical evidence is there for the multiverse"

Well earlier this morning I found an article where they feel they have finally found the first piece of evidence for the multiverse and that my Friends left me very unsettled. I would love to think that god made the universe, But if this continues and they find more evidence for the multiverse, then what good will it be to go against the evidence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... c-map.html
Plus of course you cannot escape the BVG Therom that states that all possible scenarios will have a beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z79FGmh50Xo

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#21

Post by Ukranianlys » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:17 am

I feel much better now having read all of the articles, But that was a while back. Now I raise a new, minor question. Physics, If they could be broken or if they are not in fact constant through out the universe, Could that be used as a case against God? One could claim that in instability of the physical laws could allude to carelessness on God's part or even a lack of influence. Again this is minor, and is just a thought that has bugged me. Thanks once again.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#22

Post by Silvertusk » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:28 am

Ukranianlys wrote:I feel much better now having read all of the articles, But that was a while back. Now I raise a new, minor question. Physics, If they could be broken or if they are not in fact constant through out the universe, Could that be used as a case against God? One could claim that in instability of the physical laws could allude to carelessness on God's part or even a lack of influence. Again this is minor, and is just a thought that has bugged me. Thanks once again.
Physical laws only break down in two areas in the universe - black holes and the singularity at the big bang. At the quantum level physical laws still apply - but there are some others we don't know about yet.



Just thinking Ukran - William Lane Craig has a podcast series on apologetics that covers literally everything from scripture, Jesus to cosmology -

Series 1 - http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-1-podcast
Series 2 - http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast

General Podcasts - http://www.reasonablefaith.org/reasonab ... ast/latest

I well recommend to you go through them - they are brilliant and they have certainly helped my faith in times of doubt trouble.

God Bless

Silvertusk

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#23

Post by 1over137 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:47 am

Physical laws only break down in two areas in the universe - black holes and the singularity at the big bang. At the quantum level physical laws still apply - but there are some others we don't know about yet.
I would be careful with this statement. Better is to say, familiar physical laws. I havent' heard yet about new theory that would combine gravitational force with other forces needed to describe singularity. So, no theory - no laws that could be broken.

I recall, people were trying to theoretize not constant physical constants over whole universe. As far as I know, no observation confirmed that.

And even if there were some other physical laws somewhere, so what? I would not see it as carelessness, but rather vast possiblities of God to create things.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#24

Post by Thadeyus » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:10 pm

*Drops post into thread*

Hi! As the new Agnostic(Atheistic leanings) about the place, saw this thread and thought I'd at least offer m'self as a sounding board. :)

So...to the fine Ukranianlys, my answer (In a simple form) would be 'No'.

It's here. It's been around for a while and eventually (On the really BIG scope of things) it will expand to such an extent that it will possibly appear to 'fade out' to itself (As in one galaxy will not be able to see any other galaxies).

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. It's the way things are/are going to be and heck, we've a very long time before we get to that end bit...So, we're here. Hence, lets pull our socks up and darn well MAKE something of what we have now!

:D

Very much cheers to all.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#25

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:49 am

Thadeyus wrote:*Drops post into thread*

Hi! As the new Agnostic(Atheistic leanings) about the place, saw this thread and thought I'd at least offer m'self as a sounding board. :)

So...to the fine Ukranianlys, my answer (In a simple form) would be 'No'.

It's here. It's been around for a while and eventually (On the really BIG scope of things) it will expand to such an extent that it will possibly appear to 'fade out' to itself (As in one galaxy will not be able to see any other galaxies).

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. It's the way things are/are going to be and heck, we've a very long time before we get to that end bit...So, we're here. Hence, lets pull our socks up and darn well MAKE something of what we have now!

:D

Very much cheers to all.
Are you not afraid of oblivion?

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#26

Post by SnowDrops » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:49 am

Thadeyus wrote:*Drops post into thread*

Hi! As the new Agnostic(Atheistic leanings) about the place, saw this thread and thought I'd at least offer m'self as a sounding board. :)

So...to the fine Ukranianlys, my answer (In a simple form) would be 'No'.

It's here. It's been around for a while and eventually (On the really BIG scope of things) it will expand to such an extent that it will possibly appear to 'fade out' to itself (As in one galaxy will not be able to see any other galaxies).

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. It's the way things are/are going to be and heck, we've a very long time before we get to that end bit...So, we're here. Hence, lets pull our socks up and darn well MAKE something of what we have now!

:D

Very much cheers to all.
Really? Say the whole universe slowly started freezing over tomorrow, until 24 hours later it is covered in ice and all life is dead. Now what if that happened the day after tomorrow? Or a week later? You probably get the point.
The implication of this, regardless of when it happens, is that it doesn't matter what you do, because the end result is the same: everyone dies horribly, the end. And thus the universe has no purpose, nor anyone in it.
People are bad at evaluating things far in the past or future though, so it's not surprising you trivialize it.
The first step to learning is to admit that you don't know.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#27

Post by Thadeyus » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:14 pm

Really? Say the whole universe slowly started freezing over tomorrow, until 24 hours later it is covered in ice and all life is dead. Now what if that happened the day after tomorrow? Or a week later? You probably get the point.
The implication of this, regardless of when it happens, is that it doesn't matter what you do, because the end result is the same: everyone dies horribly, the end. And thus the universe has no purpose, nor anyone in it.
People are bad at evaluating things far in the past or future though, so it's not surprising you trivialize it.
Indeed, and the atomic repository upon the Moon may some how explode -Driving our celestial neighbor off into the depths of space. Causing angst, hardship and turmoil for those trapped upon the station there.

Now, while both of these fanciful tales have much scope for drama and pathos, what are your thoughts/suggestions for the far more imminent and real problem of our Sun running out of fuel?

Or perhaps you'd care to give ideas towards the imminent collision between out galaxy and the fast approaching greater Magellanic cloud?

Both of these celestial phenomena are definitely going to happen. Both far sooner than the 'Light fade' of the universe.

You thought I was being flippant with my first over all statement? What, perchance dear SnowDrops, would your response be to these coming events?

Very much cheers to all.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#28

Post by Thadeyus » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:33 pm

Silvertusk wrote:Are you not afraid of oblivion?
Terribly sorry, I missed this question.

Other than pondering it every now and then I can say that I'm still currently kind of ambivalent towards it.

Yes, it's quite probably going to be one's fate.(Unless medical science gives us all super cyborg bodies or some such :P) It is also something all those who've gone before us are effectively 'At'.

Upon the final approach? Will I regret all the things I've not done? Heck, I sometimes ponder such things now. Why wait until 'Then'?

So...in summation...Nope not afraid...simply ambivalent. :)

Very much cheers to yourself.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#29

Post by 1over137 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:41 am

Thadeyus wrote:Now, while both of these fanciful tales have much scope for drama and pathos, what are your thoughts/suggestions for the far more imminent and real problem of our Sun running out of fuel?
Is this a problem?
Also, there may happen other catastrophes sooner.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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1over137
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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#30

Post by 1over137 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:44 am

Thadeyus wrote:Yes, it's quite probably going to be one's fate.(Unless medical science gives us all super cyborg bodies or some such ) It is also something all those who've gone before us are effectively 'At'.
Well, science can not only save us, but destroy us. Getting into evil hands...

I like one quote from famous physicist Blaise Pascal:
"Vanity of science. Knowledge of physical science will not console me for ignorance of morality in time of affliction, but knowledge of morality will always console me for ignorance of physical science."
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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