Does the universe have a purpose

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Ukranianlys
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Does the universe have a purpose

#1

Post by Ukranianlys » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:19 am

Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this

Does the universe have a purpose?

People cannot claim God to be the creator of the universe, because they are making assertions without "true" evidence that can be proven or disprove (Boy we haven't heard this one before have we?)

If the purpose of the universe was to create humans it was embarrassingly inefficient at doing it, And if it was to make a fertile place for life it has a weird way of showing it; Life has be around for 3.5 billion years, rather slow, and life has been assaulted by natural sources, destruction and death.

Ecological destruction brought about by Volcanos, climate changes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms and Asteroids have left 99.9% of all life extinct

IF someone is religious they might say the purpose of human life is to serve God, But what of the 100 billion bacteria in a single centimeter of your lower intestine, You could also say the purpose of human life is to provide them (the bacteria) with an ideal anaerobic habitat of fecal matter.

When situations occur that are reported to be in our best interest are just a likely as situations that would kill us, then intent is hard if not impossible to assert

I don't know why this troubles me so, but maybe im just a weak faith sort of person. Im not educated enough to make logical counter acts to these kinds of claims but perhaps you guys are

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#2

Post by Ukranianlys » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:38 am

I don't know I just feel myself shrink away from the "Godless" part of the internet, because I am afraid to lose my faith, Yes I admit it, perhaps I am the example of why Christians are ridiculed, Even if Christians are truly truth seeking people, I feel I am bringing their name down.

Where I going with this is, Am I the only one who feel that the atheistic presence in the internet is a tad unsettling and intimidating? I mean for Goodness sake I can even type in a serious question about God on other forum without some atheist in my face yelling at me how I'm fool and an idiot and how blind I am. This site has helped me out so much but I feel like it almost like a lost cause with all this talk of "God is dead" "Christians are angry when you corner them" "Apologists are fools" and plethora of videos and articles saying "10 Proofs of God's existence (false!)" or "disproven!" and humiliating videos of young Christians being made fun of for their youthful ignorance. Seem just a tad irritating to see such good people, Proofs, theories and assertions all immediately shot down.

Perhaps I'm not in the right "area" of the internet and could it be that the good Christian sites are hidden underneath all the Non-religious spam why you type something in the search bar? if so why is it that they are so unpopular? I would think that they would be much more popular due to the reception they would get from internet going Christians.

Trouble just seems to linger over my head when I go to the internet for some answers but maybe that was my first issue.

Could someone point me in the direction of some good Articles, sites or even videos?

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#3

Post by 1over137 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:49 pm

Perhaps, atheists have nothing better to do, whereas Christians have plenty of work with helping the poor, etc.
When I was an atheist, I always wanted to interact with the best Christians can offer; some highly intelligent Christian and with also good heart as well. It took 15 years, but I finally found them. :)

Edit: huh, do nit take me wrong. There are lot of intelligent Christians out there, but I needed someone to match me, haha :)
Edit: and by finding some I mean I am very good friend with them. I am friend with some Profs now :)
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#4

Post by jlay » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:26 pm

I would ask them, what is the PURPOSE in asking the question?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#5

Post by Ukranianlys » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:28 pm

Yes I suppose I should just be patient and I should find some well learned Christians, thanks for the hope 1 over 137 ,

Jlay, yes I suppose I could say that, it would be quite the snappy comeback

Though I find someone of these questions difficult to answer, could maybe someone give a thoughtful response please?

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#6

Post by SonofAletheia » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:00 pm

Ukranianlys wrote:I don't know I just feel myself shrink away from the "Godless" part of the internet, because I am afraid to lose my faith, Yes I admit it, perhaps I am the example of why Christians are ridiculed, Even if Christians are truly truth seeking people, I feel I am bringing their name down.

Where I going with this is, Am I the only one who feel that the atheistic presence in the internet is a tad unsettling and intimidating? I mean for Goodness sake I can even type in a serious question about God on other forum without some atheist in my face yelling at me how I'm fool and an idiot and how blind I am. This site has helped me out so much but I feel like it almost like a lost cause with all this talk of "God is dead" "Christians are angry when you corner them" "Apologists are fools" and plethora of videos and articles saying "10 Proofs of God's existence (false!)" or "disproven!" and humiliating videos of young Christians being made fun of for their youthful ignorance. Seem just a tad irritating to see such good people, Proofs, theories and assertions all immediately shot down.

Perhaps I'm not in the right "area" of the internet and could it be that the good Christian sites are hidden underneath all the Non-religious spam why you type something in the search bar? if so why is it that they are so unpopular? I would think that they would be much more popular due to the reception they would get from internet going Christians.

Trouble just seems to linger over my head when I go to the internet for some answers but maybe that was my first issue.

Could someone point me in the direction of some good Articles, sites or even videos?
I can't tell you how much I can relate to this. I remember when I first started looking into arguments for/against the existence of God, arguments for/against Christianity etc I was shocked. I remember thinking "wow the other side actually has some good reasons for their beliefs!" I understood their side and respected it
Learning it one of the most humbling things a person can do. The more you learn the more you realize how little you know which happens to most of us

I think it makes sense that the internet would be filled with atheists. They have no churches, no missions trips and no bible studies. The best place for them to gather would be the internet.

What helped me the most was reading works from some of the greatest Christian apologists. I stay away from pastors or your average Christians when it comes to the profound philosophical issues.

Have you checked out William Lane Craig. In my opinion, he is one of the greatest minds alive right now. Then there's Alvin Plantinga, John Lennox, JP Moreland, and more. They have helped me see how Christianity and belief in God is quite reasonable.
I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei
What comes into our minds when we think about God, is the most important thing about us.
-A.W. Tozer

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#7

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:20 am

Ukranianlys wrote:Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this

Does the universe have a purpose?

People cannot claim God to be the creator of the universe, because they are making assertions without "true" evidence that can be proven or disprove (Boy we haven't heard this one before have we?)

If the purpose of the universe was to create humans it was embarrassingly inefficient at doing it, And if it was to make a fertile place for life it has a weird way of showing it; Life has be around for 3.5 billion years, rather slow, and life has been assaulted by natural sources, destruction and death.

Ecological destruction brought about by Volcanos, climate changes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms and Asteroids have left 99.9% of all life extinct

IF someone is religious they might say the purpose of human life is to serve God, But what of the 100 billion bacteria in a single centimeter of your lower intestine, You could also say the purpose of human life is to provide them (the bacteria) with an ideal anaerobic habitat of fecal matter.

When situations occur that are reported to be in our best interest are just a likely as situations that would kill us, then intent is hard if not impossible to assert

I don't know why this troubles me so, but maybe im just a weak faith sort of person. Im not educated enough to make logical counter acts to these kinds of claims but perhaps you guys are

Yes - Jesus

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

Then us.

God created the universe so he can have a relationship with us. That is pretty humbling.

The size and age of the universe is irrelevant to an Eternal God. Besides the laws that govern our universe that allows us perfect freewill requires that it be as old and as big as it is. Read - "Why the Universe is the way it is" by Hugh Ross.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#8

Post by bippy123 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:27 am

Ukranianlys wrote:Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this

Does the universe have a purpose?

People cannot claim God to be the creator of the universe, because they are making assertions without "true" evidence that can be proven or disprove (Boy we haven't heard this one before have we?)

If the purpose of the universe was to create humans it was embarrassingly inefficient at doing it, And if it was to make a fertile place for life it has a weird way of showing it; Life has be around for 3.5 billion years, rather slow, and life has been assaulted by natural sources, destruction and death.

Ecological destruction brought about by Volcanos, climate changes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms and Asteroids have left 99.9% of all life extinct

IF someone is religious they might say the purpose of human life is to serve God, But what of the 100 billion bacteria in a single centimeter of your lower intestine, You could also say the purpose of human life is to provide them (the bacteria) with an ideal anaerobic habitat of fecal matter.

When situations occur that are reported to be in our best interest are just a likely as situations that would kill us, then intent is hard if not impossible to assert

I don't know why this troubles me so, but maybe im just a weak faith sort of person. Im not educated enough to make logical counter acts to these kinds of claims but perhaps you guys are
Try looking into the odds of life coming about through chemical interaction and random chance. Those odds would humble atheists and probably give u some comfort in understanding how special we are to God. :)

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#9

Post by jlay » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:32 am

Ukranianlys wrote:Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this

Does the universe have a purpose?

People cannot claim God to be the creator of the universe, because they are making assertions without "true" evidence that can be proven or disprove (Boy we haven't heard this one before have we?)

If the purpose of the universe was to create humans it was embarrassingly inefficient at doing it, And if it was to make a fertile place for life it has a weird way of showing it; Life has be around for 3.5 billion years, rather slow, and life has been assaulted by natural sources, destruction and death.

Ecological destruction brought about by Volcanos, climate changes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms and Asteroids have left 99.9% of all life extinct

IF someone is religious they might say the purpose of human life is to serve God, But what of the 100 billion bacteria in a single centimeter of your lower intestine, You could also say the purpose of human life is to provide them (the bacteria) with an ideal anaerobic habitat of fecal matter.

When situations occur that are reported to be in our best interest are just a likely as situations that would kill us, then intent is hard if not impossible to assert

I don't know why this troubles me so, but maybe im just a weak faith sort of person. Im not educated enough to make logical counter acts to these kinds of claims but perhaps you guys are
Well, the main question is, "why is there something rather than nothing?"
And the question about purpose wasn't just some trite response. When a person ask, what is the purpose of the universe, they are inferring that their question has purpose. And thus, that they have purpose. Based on??
Their question is governed by metaphysical laws of logic, which a material world cannot account for. Even the most learned atheists do not want to touch that question with a 10 foot poll.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#10

Post by La Volpe » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:46 pm

I feel like if someone is truly an athiest, that they would be a heartless, selfish person. I mean if there's no God and life is temporary why not just please yourself, without caring about other people? I mean they believe they are going to die and nothing will happen, some atheists claim they wish to make a difference in other peoples lives, which is a flawed statement because their lives would be just as meaningless, and then eventually the world would end and everything humanity did would've been pointless.

An atheistic view of purpose and meaning is extremely depressing...
People will believe anything if you whisper it.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#11

Post by 1over137 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:31 am

Ukranianlys wrote: Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this
Watch the quality not quantity. Do not let yourself be down by seeing quantity.
People cannot claim God to be the creator of the universe, because they are making assertions without "true" evidence that can be proven or disprove (Boy we haven't heard this one before have we?)
I see evidence, but the best evidence I see is my own person.
If the purpose of the universe was to create humans it was embarrassingly inefficient at doing it, And if it was to make a fertile place for life it has a weird way of showing it; Life has be around for 3.5 billion years, rather slow, and life has been assaulted by natural sources, destruction and death. ...
STOP. Who claims the purpose was to create humans ONLY? Creation is vast.
IF someone is religious they might say the purpose of human life is to serve God
I would say rather come back to God.
But what of the 100 billion bacteria in a single centimeter of your lower intestine, You could also say the purpose of human life is to provide them (the bacteria) with an ideal anaerobic habitat of fecal matter.
I do not think the purpose of human life is to provide them.

Ukranianlys,
I do not find the post of that person somewhere on internet a good one at all. By the way, do you know
http://www.bethinking.org/ You may enjoy having a look at that.

Greetings.
:)
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#12

Post by neo-x » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:01 am

Having spent time in research I find that many atheists are dominating the internet realm making many claims, one such is this
Actually, you will find that these so called atheists are only a very very small part of the internet community. The are very vocal because they spew hate, and therefore they seek and get that attention. A lot of atheists respect people of faith. They are not that militant.

Let me tell you, when I was an atheist. To me everything made sense only to the extent I allowed it to. The sense of purpose, if there is no God, is only temporary and a thoughtful atheist would simply agree with you happily that life is temporary, that we are a little accident and that we will one day go extinct. That may happen because of us, like wars or that may happen on a cosmological scale, like meteor strikes and etc. Either way it won't matter. So do what you can in this life. That is of course not to say they do not mean well, they want to be good, the way they perceive goodness to be and act on it. They may cite any reason for it, but again they will admit, or have to admit that the cause is temporary.
Ecological destruction brought about by Volcanos, climate changes, earthquakes, tsunamis, storms and Asteroids have left 99.9% of all life extinct
Life in its present form exists exactly because of these systems, which God designed. The scale of this universe and creation itself is vast. We are God's creation and so is the rest of the universe. To simply think we are the center of everything is stretching it.

So the question boils down to... are you important in sight of God, despite all the mess and the chaos?
Christ says you are. In his own way, God found us. Walking with God, always means that you will face problems. You think about this, what would the love of God meant to the persons who were thrown before lions because of their faith in early christianity. How many questions would they have had? I always think and I wonder. To a person who is treated so unfairly what does the term "God love you" would mean. I have no idea but you can certainly see its hard to fit. And yet it is as true as the author of Hebrews tell us that heroes of faith were treated most unfairly. I guess my point is, despite all the grim surroundings, God's love has already found us, sealed us in his love. And that we will be with him, as he rose from the dead so shall we one day, join him.

But does that mean that we will always have the best time on earth? No. We will die, that is just part of the whole plan. The purpose of the body is to die and be transformed one day. The purpose of us, is not who we are, but the purpose is shown in Christ's redeeming love. There is nothing good or centric about us that makes us valuable to God, on our own. It is only in his own mercy and grace that we find the purpose revealed, through his son.

I am not bothered about the universe having a purpose, or us having a purpose. The only thing to be glad about that Christ has a purpose for us. Bacteria has its own purpose. And it may sound, lazy or ineffient on God's part but if you look around and see then you will find that all life, and I mean all life is kind of interdependent on each other. That is the way it was made. You have to just accept that.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
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I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#13

Post by robyn hill » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:14 am

I think God created the universe and its vastness because as easy as it is for him, it creates faith in all of us. No matter how far technology can project a telescope, we will not find an "end" to God's work or the "place" where it all started. There is no need for time or place to God, the universe only proves that. Once again, however, atheists and their idea that they are the most intelligent force, think they can understand a universe (they didn't create, no matter what they believe), can be quantified by their concept of measurement. Really very laughably vain and egocentric.

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#14

Post by Mallz » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:38 am

Does the universe have a purpose?
For the Atheist: No. Our reality will cease to exist in ~300 billion years. http://genesis1.asu.edu/0308046.pdf

For the Christian: Yes. This explosion we're living in, filled with natural and spiritual evils, is part of the timeless question of a beings ability of existence beyond God and why humans need Him; for we fail at ruling ourselves, disgustingly.
Justice. Are we acceptable creations outside of God? How would we know unless given the time to explore all plausible forms of rule? And then to be judged on their basis of Omnibenevolence to give authenticity to self rule?

Check out this webpage: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... 748cc06538

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Re: Does the universe have a purpose

#15

Post by Ukranianlys » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:50 am

Thank you guys for all the wonderful Responses, While I would conclude that the universe does have a purpose now thanks to all the reading I've done, However I feel that I will forever be plagued with the uncertainty of "God or the Multiverse"

I will admit I avoided the question as my best response to it was "It only continues to beg the question, who made the multiverse?" and "What hard physical evidence is there for the multiverse"

Well earlier this morning I found an article where they feel they have finally found the first piece of evidence for the multiverse and that my Friends left me very unsettled. I would love to think that god made the universe, But if this continues and they find more evidence for the multiverse, then what good will it be to go against the evidence?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... c-map.html

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