His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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KBCid
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His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

#1

Post by KBCid » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:23 pm

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

In conjunction with the system of spatiotemporal control there are many other systems that have been asserted to exist within the living form and aging is one of those that keeps popping up. I think for a change of pace we can see what is happening on this front as well to see if maybe we can answer why life has to die;

Aging Theories
Everyone gets old and everyone dies. But why? The question is very fundamental and as difficult to answer as why we are alive.
Normal human cells die out after dividing a number of times, even when kept alive in ideal laboratory nutrient conditions. But some cancer cells and virus-infected cells can be "immortal" and divide indefinitely. What makes human cells inherently full of death?
An interesting question is whether people would die if they had a "perfect" environment. Is the human body capable of immortality given the right environment? If a human could get the ideal atmosphere, diet, light, and other external factors, would they live forever? Or is there a programmed age limit for cells no matter what environment humans live in?

If there is a preset limit for human lifespan, it is probably of the order of around 120 years.

In my opinion, death like growth is probably programmed. But if so, why so? Religious answers are numerous. Evolutionary theories state that the death of the old helps the gene pool diversify and so confers evoluationary advantages. All such theories are interesting, but inherently unprovable and of little value in detailed analysis.
http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/genetics/aging.htm

Origin and spatiotemporal dynamics of the peroxisomal endomembrane system
Recent studies have uncovered new roles for the peroxisomal endomembrane system in orchestrating important developmental decisions and in regulating cellular aging.
The Issue will critically evaluate the mechanisms underlying the spatiotemporal dynamics of the peroxisomal endomembrane system, linking it to various developmental programs, and enabling it to develop a pro- or anti-aging cellular pattern.

Determination of the Aging Gene
Over the last several decades, C. elegans has been the subject of many published studies, but perhaps the most famous of these appeared in 1993. In that paper, researcher Cynthia Kenyon and her associates showed that C. elegans with a specific single-gene mutation lived twice as long as members of the species that lacked this mutation (Kenyon et al., 1993). This finding was groundbreaking for a number of reasons. First, it challenged the prevailing concept that aging occurs as the body deteriorates over time. Second, it led to a shift in thinking, even among researchers who already believed that aging was subject to some sort of genetic control. Prior to this point, most such scientists figured that aging, age-related illnesses, and death were consequences of multiple cellular and physiological processes, and therefore under the regulation of a wide and diverse set of genes. Kenyon's paper, however, suggested that a single gene could dramatically regulate how long an organism lived, thus opening the door to new hypotheses about modifying life span through genetic manipulation.
Why Limit Life Span?
Why, then, do animals have a gene such as daf-2, whose apparent purpose (when not mutated) is to limit life span?
So, how does one gene control life span? Quite simply, it acts by controlling a lot of other genes that just happen to coordinate the survival system within worms.
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpag ... e-span-847

Aging May Be Controlled by Brake and Accelerator Genes
Can we tweak certain genes to stave off the aging process—or, conversely, to speed it up? New research indicates that it may one day be possible.
Scientists have discovered genetic switches in roundworms (Caenorhabditis elegans)—whose genetic makeup is remarkably similar to that of humans—that apparently cause the spineless critters to grow old when flicked on but, when off, may extend their lives.
"This is a new and potentially powerful circuit that has just been discovered," says Brown University biologist Marc Tatar,
Kim believes that it is possible to slow—or even reverse—senescence if scientists can figure out how to keep the master genes from changing course. "What we found was this developmental regulatory system [that keeps worms young] had become unbalanced in old age," Kim says.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... d-by-genes

Harvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice – now for humans
Harvard scientists were surprised that they saw a dramatic reversal, not just a slowing down, of the ageing in mice. Now they believe they might be able to regenerate human organs
At Harvard, they bred genetically manipulated mice that lacked an enzyme called telomerase that stops telomeres getting shorter. Without the enzyme, the mice aged prematurely and suffered ailments, including a poor sense of smell, smaller brain size, infertility and damaged intestines and spleens. But when DePinho gave the mice injections to reactivate the enzyme, it repaired the damaged tissues and reversed the signs of ageing.
"These were severely aged animals, but after a month of treatment they showed a substantial restoration, including the growth of new neurons in their brains," said DePinho.
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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Re: His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

#2

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:51 pm

Interesting you brought this up KBCid.. For if we look into the Tanach, we understand that people lived after the 120 years or died before that as recorded in Psalm 90:10. So is it possible that Genesis 6:3 is talking about something else?

If we look at the word "years" in Genesis 6:3 as being Jubilee years, we get an interesting result for 120 x 50 (Jubilee years). When we add it up we get six thousand. It is possible that man's reign will only be 6 thousand years leaving the last year, the 7th, as the millennial year.

Anyways that is how I'm starting to understand that verse now.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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KBCid
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Re: His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

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Post by KBCid » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:48 pm

Gman wrote:Interesting you brought this up KBCid.. For if we look into the Tanach, we understand that people lived after the 120 years or died before that as recorded in Psalm 90:10. So is it possible that Genesis 6:3 is talking about something else?
Interesting take on that G. I have always taken the Psalm as Moses saying that his peoples 'typical' length of life at that time was about 70 to 80 which was simply a statement of the observable evidence at that point in time. The confounding point here of course if Moses was referring to 80 being the max lifespan of humans is how he lived to 120.
I would say it is quite doubtfull that Moses would counter Gods word from Genesis if he understood it to mean what I am thinking. so I would look further to try and grasp where there could be an error in interpretation at either verse.
Gman wrote:If we look at the word "years" in Genesis 6:3 as being Jubilee years, we get an interesting result for 120 x 50 (Jubilee years). When we add it up we get six thousand. It is possible that man's reign will only be 6 thousand years leaving the last year, the 7th, as the millennial year. Anyways that is how I'm starting to understand that verse now.
Very interesting... 6:3 may be in reference to the span of mans time before Christs rein begins instead of years in a lifetime. Yes I do see logic in this interpretation and it doesn't interfere with Christs assertion about the "day and time" of the end not being known as this is defining a specific day and the time during that day since 6:3 is speaking about years.

After a quick look up on this subject it also appears that there is another concept dealing with 6:3;

Genesis 6:3 Continued: The 120 years
This passage has commonly been understood one of two ways: 1) As an indication of the amount of years left between God’s decision to do something about man’s wickedness and the start of the flood...
120 Years Before the Flood
We do know that 100 years passes between the time Noah has his children (Gen. 5:32) and the time the flood begins on the earth (Gen. 7:6).
http://ponderingscripture.wordpress.com ... 120-years/

It is worth noting that at the end of the Torah, Moses lives to the age of 120. Moses’ age, coupled with the fact that in modern times we still do not live past 120, is a strong argument for this interpretation. Ultimately either explanation of the 120 years is plausible...
http://ponderingscripture.wordpress.com ... 120-years/

This topic is not one that I have alot of time invested in and is still under scrutiny for accuracy in interpretation so this can certainly fall in a number of directions. In reference to your statement that "if we look into the Tanach, we understand that people lived after the 120 years" it is correct that after 6:3 men certainly did continue to live past 120 for quite a few generations so preliminarily I would have to agree with you that this reference may not be defining individual lifespans especially since it was directed at mankind as a whole so it is wise to examine everything I think I understand critically as error can creep in at every turn.
Nice catch G !!!!!
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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Re: His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

#4

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:04 pm

KBCid wrote: Nice catch G !!!!!
Toda raba... Just another way to look at it I guess... Who knows. ;)
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

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Post by kmr » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:09 pm

Actually, I always interpreted this passage to the effect of there being 120 years until the Flood began. It took Noah a while to build that ark.
- KMR

Dominum meum amō!

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Re: His days shall be an hundred and twenty years

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Post by KBCid » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:15 pm

kmr wrote:Actually, I always interpreted this passage to the effect of there being 120 years until the Flood began. It took Noah a while to build that ark.
the two points that undermine that concept for me is;
1) that man still existed during the flood. The wording suggests that it was an end of man time on the earth.
2) God points out that his spirit will not strive with man forever and we all know that Christ said that his father worked until his time and then it was his turn to work.
So for me that concept doesn't have the appeal that Gmans evokes.
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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