God and parasitic disease

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Xericos
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God and parasitic disease

#1

Post by Xericos » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:09 pm

I've been struggling with some of the more unpleasant aspects of life that are outside of man's control and were created by God. Specifically, parasitic disease, or even all infectious disease for that matter. Why would God create internal parasites that serve no other purpose than to harm and cause suffering, such as tapeworms that can permanently encyst in the brain and filarial worms that cause elephantiasis? What about the Loa loa worm that is host-specific to humans in central Africa, which causes permanent blindness? Or roundworms that invade the body through bare feet? These helminth parasites have no parasites of their own to control their numbers, and they have no predators that rely on them for food. This latter fact could be argued for the existence of arthropod disease vectors such as mosquitoes and ticks -- they're food for other animals. This is not the case for obligate internal parasites.

I just wanted to bounce this off you guys and get your thoughts. Those of us in the Western world aren't often exposed to these horrific diseases, and in turn sometimes don't give them much thought. I am not using this to attempt to prove or disprove God's existence, but I do find it curious that many of these parasites even exist in the first place. The fact that children are most prone to these in tropical parts of the world just kills me. Life is hard enough as it is (salt in the wound?).

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#2

Post by wrain62 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:46 pm

Suffering is independant of evil. Why doesn't put us in a clean cardboard world with abundant recources? Because then nothing needs to be taken seriously and we would go on with a solipsistic existence. It is to avoid such existence and let us draw together in community, with other humans and with God.
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#3

Post by Graceismine » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:50 am

Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#4

Post by Xericos » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:17 am

The insidious nature in which many of these parasites invade and take over the body, the temple of God, just boggles the mind as to why God created them. Surely suffering from a physical injury is on a different plane than suffering from centimeter-long tapeworm cysts in the brain? Your response is far too broad, and implies that if parasites were gone we would be living in a perfect world (not even close). There are enough difficulties and struggles in the world, especially evil as you mentioned, for us to be plenty occupied and not living in a "clean cardboard world."

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#5

Post by RickD » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:50 am

Graceismine wrote:Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
Or, disease and parasites are a part of the circle of life that God created to sustain this temporary creation since its beginning. Without physical death, physical life could not be possible.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#6

Post by wrain62 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:08 am

Xericos wrote:The insidious nature in which many of these parasites invade and take over the body, the temple of God, just boggles the mind as to why God created them. Surely suffering from a physical injury is on a different plane than suffering from centimeter-long tapeworm cysts in the brain? Your response is far too broad, and implies that if parasites were gone we would be living in a perfect world (not even close). There are enough difficulties and struggles in the world, especially evil as you mentioned, for us to be plenty occupied and not living in a "clean cardboard world."
You take some of the worst things with suffering and say, "there enough difficulties in the world, why these?", but there will always be a horrendous suffering ; so where would you put a cut off point? Also, Humans are very plastic in that our suffering is relative what we are used to. The less there is to suffer from, the more sensitive we become and feel that suffering at the same level with something softer. I do not get why you put cut off points that are just arbitrary to your liking. The reality of suffering should bring us together as neibors and together with God. Unfairness is a reality, true, but it is always only temporary.
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#7

Post by Xericos » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:36 am

wrain62 wrote:You take some of the worst things with suffering and say, "there enough difficulties in the world, why these?", but there will always be a horrendous suffering ; so where would you put a cut off point? Also, Humans are very plastic in that our suffering is relative what we are used to. The less there is to suffer from, the more sensitive we become and feel that suffering at the same level with something softer. I do not get why you put cut off points that are just arbitrary to your liking. The reality of suffering should bring us together as neibors and together with God. Unfairness is a reality, true, but it is always only temporary.
Here's how I view how suffering is caused in the world:

1. Intentional harm caused by man
2. Intentional harm outside of man's control (infectious parasites and disease)
3. Incidental harm (car accident, random animal attack, exposure to chemicals)

Yes, it is arbitrary to call #2 out in relation to suffering as a whole. Here's the difference. #1 and #3 are not caused by God, but by us, our choices and the hazards of everyday life in this world we've developed. #2 was created by God -- a group of organisms whose only method of survival is to feed on us for their own well being. Parasites that are host-specific to humans. It doesn't sit well with me that our loving Father would design creatures such as these, even when considering the fall of man.

Why is the sky blue? Because God made it that way, accept it. Why are there parasites? Because God made it that way, accept it. There's pretty much no room for discussion and it may as well end here. This is not a scientific argument, but more of a personal observation that I strongly disagree with God on (in fact, it's the only one). It's helpful to get other views on this...keep 'em coming.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#8

Post by dayage » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:00 pm

Graceismine,
Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
The curse was limited to the Land of Eden.

Disease, death and parasites affect us because we were removed from the Tree of Life (Gen. 3:22-23). I also agree with RickD.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#9

Post by Graceismine » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:40 pm

RickD wrote:
Graceismine wrote:Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
Or, disease and parasites are a part of the circle of life that God created to sustain this temporary creation since its beginning. Without physical death, physical life could not be possible.
I understand what you are saying.....similar to the wonder of maggots having their place in the recycling process. However the OP speaks of parasitic diseases as an aberration to perfection.

Mothers in the civilised world treat their children for worms & lice because it is not a condition that is acceptable to us. Same reason we treat our pets so. We are not natural hosts to these parasites, they come from the earth. Now there may be something latent within a person that is triggered off, I don't know. If so it is a result of the fall.

Adam & Eve were perfect, sinless, diseaseless beings. When they fell we inherited their fallen nature, body, soul & spirit. IMO :esmile:

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#10

Post by Graceismine » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:42 pm

dayage wrote:Graceismine,
Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
The curse was limited to the Land of Eden.

Disease, death and parasites affect us because we were removed from the Tree of Life (Gen. 3:22-23). I also agree with RickD.
If the curse was limited to Eden, why is the rest of the world covered in brambles as god said would happen?

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#11

Post by RickD » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:54 pm

Graceismine wrote:
dayage wrote:Graceismine,
Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
The curse was limited to the Land of Eden.

Disease, death and parasites affect us because we were removed from the Tree of Life (Gen. 3:22-23). I also agree with RickD.
If the curse was limited to Eden, why is the rest of the world covered in brambles as god said would happen?
How do you know the thorns weren't there, outside the garden, before the fall? Remember, Adam was banished from the garden. He now had to work the earth, to grow his own food. To assume the world outside eden was without death, is only possible if one reads something into scripture that isn't there. There was no mention of a tree of life outside the garden.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#12

Post by bippy123 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:42 pm

Xericos let me share my experience with you on this and maybe you can get a better understanding of some of the reasons that God may have permitted natural evil. I do agree with the other reasons being posted here also.

In 1991 I travelled to Lebanon to visit some relatives. I stayed there over the summer for 3 months.
When I came home I started to feel a loss of energy and appetite with a buzzing sound throughout my body. I immediately started to lose weight. The doctors couldn't understand what was happening and started doing all kinds of blood work on me. They even made me take a HIV test (which I didn't need be side I'm a virgin and even during a shoulder operation I made sure to have them use my own blood for the operation the next day). Finally 4 months later they found a parasitic bacteria in my stool and the only cure for this was another bacteria, the problem was that if taken for more than 2 weeks it was poisonous to my body and internal organs, and the trick was I had to take the bacteria for 6 weeks to have a chance to be cured. It became a constant struggle of going on and off the meds for 2 years a d I came close to death a few times. I was bedridden all this time and I needed my room to be heated to over 100 degrees 24 hours a day or I would get the chills.

I became ticked off at God for a while, but during my worst moments when I was getting close to death I told God that I'm sorry for being angry at him and I said "let thy will be done" and I asked him for the courage and strength to take the meds for 6 weeks, and I accepted Gods will no matter what happened.

I then went through the whole 6 week cycle which was physically more excruciating then anything I ever did, and slowly after I saw some of my strength starting to come back.

I passed through it but still to this day I was never the same . I can't go I to the ocean, I can't take off my shirt even in 100 degree weather because even a warm breeze would give me deep chills down to my bones for weeks.

But there was one change in me that I would have never seen during my sickness.
I became more empathetic towards the sufferings of others, I cared much deeper for my friends than I ever did before.
Whereas before when a friend was suffering I would stay on the phone with them for a few moments,wish them well and go to my business, where now I would stay with them for hours on end, my empathy became deeper and more meaningfully towards them.

You ask why would God allow parasites that serve no good function but to cause pain and suffering in this world?
It sure served a great purpose for me. Love never grows when everything is going fine, it grows during the darkest, most agonizing periods of our life:)

Capeesh? :)
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Re: God and parasitic disease

#13

Post by Graceismine » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:48 pm

RickD wrote:
Graceismine wrote:
dayage wrote:Graceismine,
Genesis 3 describes how and why we live on a cursed earth. Disease and parasites are part of that. In the beginning God created the earth and saw that it was good. The sin of Adam and the activity of Satan are causing chaos which seems to be increasing.
The curse was limited to the Land of Eden.

Disease, death and parasites affect us because we were removed from the Tree of Life (Gen. 3:22-23). I also agree with RickD.
If the curse was limited to Eden, why is the rest of the world covered in brambles as god said would happen?
How do you know the thorns weren't there, outside the garden, before the fall? Remember, Adam was banished from the garden. He now had to work the earth, to grow his own food. To assume the world outside eden was without death, is only possible if one reads something into scripture that isn't there. There was no mention of a tree of life outside the garden.
I know because of this Scripture
Gen 1:11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#14

Post by Graceismine » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:55 pm

bippy 123...I Capeesh, however I don't believe God caused your illness. God used it because He says "Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."

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Re: God and parasitic disease

#15

Post by RickD » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:55 pm

I'm not sure how those verses say there were no thorns outside Eden, before Adam sinned.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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