Is God a material thing?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Is God a material thing?

#1

Post by Frogsterking » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:10 pm

I've always thought based on my understanding of the Bible that God is an immaterial bodiless mind, and the passages in which he appears are physical manifestations or refer to his spiritual presence. But I'm finding there are not a lot of Bible verses which support my previous idea of God as an immaterial mind. Specifically, the passages in which he appears to Moses indicate to me that he has a body. Thoughts?

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#2

Post by bippy123 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:42 am

God is pure spirit, the light of eternal mind, but that doesn't mean he can't manifest himself in the flesh which he did in Jesus Christ.

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#3

Post by Frogsterking » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:20 am

bippy123 wrote:God is pure spirit, the light of eternal mind, but that doesn't mean he can't manifest himself in the flesh which he did in Jesus Christ.
Yes but is there Biblical evidence for this interpretation?

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#4

Post by domokunrox » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:38 am

Frogsterking wrote:
bippy123 wrote:God is pure spirit, the light of eternal mind, but that doesn't mean he can't manifest himself in the flesh which he did in Jesus Christ.
Yes but is there Biblical evidence for this interpretation?
Absolutely.

(NASB)Zechariah 2:7-13
"Ho, Zion! Escape, you who are living with the daughter of Babylon." [8] For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye. [9] "For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me. [10] "Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst," declares the LORD. [11] "Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. [12] "The LORD will possess Judah as His portion in the holy land, and will again choose Jerusalem. [13] "Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD; for He is aroused from His holy habitation."

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#5

Post by KBCid » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:58 pm

Frogsterking wrote:I've always thought based on my understanding of the Bible that God is an immaterial bodiless mind... Thoughts?
If you think about it, God is attributed with winding up or infusing energy into all the designs observable in his creation. The varieties of atoms that exist have varying levels of energy in their formations and we can see the amount of power it takes to make the various atoms when we see what is released when we split an atom..... that energy which was required in order to form the atoms came from something. It says in many verses that God is power and that he has always existed, science currently says;

The nineteenth century law of conservation of energy is a law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time. The total energy is said to be conserved over time. For an isolated system, this law means that energy can change its location within the system, and that it can change form within the system, for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy, but that energy can be neither created nor destroyed.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

So what if Spirit is just another way of saying energy? God says he is eternal and science says that energy is eternal. No matter how you look at it we observe that all things made from the arrangement of atoms is winding down or losing energy so there must be a state where all the created things return back to, the state they began from. Essentially this excludes the first cause (God) from having a physical body since he asserts his place is the creator of all the things which we can observe to be winding down. A body from our perspective requires energized atomic structures otherwise there would be nothing physical to sense.
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
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Re: Is God a material thing?

#6

Post by 1over137 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:12 am

I am wondering about into what God trasformed when creating our universe. He had to 'touch' things somehow. I mean when creating something, He had to interact with it, interact with quarks, electrons or what. I wonder what kind of other particles is out there. And when He interacts (spiritually or other -ly) with our world, how is he doing that?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#7

Post by RickD » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:28 am

1over137 wrote:I am wondering about into what God trasformed when creating our universe. He had to 'touch' things somehow. I mean when creating something, He had to interact with it, interact with quarks, electrons or what. I wonder what kind of other particles is out there. And when He interacts (spiritually or other -ly) with our world, how is he doing that?
Good luck finding an answer for that one, Hana. I'm still struggling with comprehending how one God can be three separate persons(Trinity). :lol:

There are some things that I just can't fully comprehend. I can understand that a transcendent, omnipotent being can create ex nihilo. I just can't understand how.

But then, what you're studying in school, is way above my understanding, too. y#-o
John 5:24
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Re: Is God a material thing?

#8

Post by 1over137 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:43 am

I have found it out" He is made of Godons and Godinos :pound:
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#9

Post by Byblos » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:43 am

1over137 wrote:I am wondering about into what God trasformed when creating our universe. He had to 'touch' things somehow. I mean when creating something, He had to interact with it, interact with quarks, electrons or what. I wonder what kind of other particles is out there. And when He interacts (spiritually or other -ly) with our world, how is he doing that?
As Rick said, some things we will never be able to comprehend. I wouldn't be surprised for example if we found out there really are extra dimensions we currently are not aware of. Dimensions in which the spirit can reside, dimensions where heaven is and where Christ is right now, etc. Perhaps M-theory is not that far off :wink:.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#10

Post by KBCid » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:24 am

RickD wrote:There are some things that I just can't fully comprehend. I can understand that a transcendent, omnipotent being can create ex nihilo. I just can't understand how.
Rick, I began a thread in Chit Chat called "In the beginning...." where I am addressing this very question. Unfortunately since I am new to the forums here I erred in where I placed it as it should have been in the God and science section. I think you would be interested in reviewing the thread. Essentially I think from the evidences I have been able to compile that we as humans have overstepped the evidence to infer an ex nihilo start to the universe. It would seem to me that 'space' and the building blocks of matter were already in existence when God began to form his designs. So if your interested have a look and see if I'm making any logical errors or assumptions beyond what is necessary.

thx for your time
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It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
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Re: Is God a material thing?

#11

Post by coldblood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:57 pm

I find interesting the references that seem to refer to God as plural; this would imply something one could point to and count. Of course there is the 1 John 5:7 example that says the THREE are one; and the Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness; but also two more Genesis references. Genesis 3:22 God said man has now become like US, knowing good and evil; and Genesis 18:1-3, when the Lord appeared to Abraham, Abraham looked up and saw THREE men standing nearby, and Abraham, referring to them as Lord, offered to wash the feet of ALL, and THEY answered, "Very well." Perhaps all such references can all be explained away to someone’s satisfaction, nonetheless, IMO, they tease the reader. The makeup of God is truly a mystery.

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#12

Post by KBCid » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:30 pm

coldblood wrote: I find interesting the references that seem to refer to God as plural... The makeup of God is truly a mystery.
The plural part becomes a little less mysterious when you realize that the living word, the first creative act of God prior to all the other creative events was to create a living being, Gods first born, the son he always wanted. Thus he could assert rightfully that he was creating man in their image.
I think one error you may be making is inferring that the trinity reference is defining the number of entities refered to in Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... the more correct way to understand this verse is to realize that 'the word' is making a suggestion to his father. The son was seeking to work with his father through the act of creation.

Now you might ask how I could rationalize what I wrote but I have one more point that one needs to realize. The third part of the trinity is the holy ghost, Remember Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost......
Which means we weren't created with the image of the holy ghost.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This gift from God was definitely not part of the image we were made in otherwise,
1) we would not have sinned to begin with.
2) Eve would have understood satans deception and her decendants would have had no need to spend thousands of years to learn why disobeying your maker is a bad idea.
3) We would have already known about good and evil

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...

the Holy Ghost is able to teach all things... Definitely not a part of our image however, if you believe in 'the word' you could have it, the father will send you one for your very own.
Last edited by KBCid on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#13

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:35 pm

Kbcid, do you realize by saying that the living word was Gods first creation, you're saying that the living word(Christ), isn't God? Christ wasn't created. Being fully God, He has always existed.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Is God a material thing?

#14

Post by KBCid » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:47 pm

RickD wrote:Kbcid, do you realize by saying that the living word was Gods first creation, you're saying that the living word(Christ), isn't God? Christ wasn't created. Being fully God, He has always existed.
Ok lets say that assertion were true.... then what is going on here;

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Why would God need to put his spirit on himself? actually how would it be possible to for him to put his spirit on himself?
Now this doesn't mean Christ is not also like God the father in nearly every way but, Christ defined a difference between him and his father;

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

upon reading that verse, an opportune moment arises here. Do you deny Christ is the son of the father? because if you assert that the son is the father then the logic would follow that the Heavenly father is not the father of Christ the son.

When Christ says Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Do you perceive the meaning here to be that Christ is God the father or rather that Christ and his father are one in spirit?

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Why would God have to pray to himself. Could he not simply command the twelve legions of angels?

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It appears in revelation that John views God the father and Christ his son as two separate beings. notice also that even though Christ will reign for a thousand years his father will be right there with him. Christ will actually be on Gods right hand just as it is written;
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

How exactly can God sit beside himself?

When you think about it Christ must be a god because as the first born he would be no less than the image we were created from and we are gods. Therefore the logic would be that Christ came from God the father and just as our sons are a part of us so is Christ a part of his father. The bottom line here would be that Christ cannot call God the 'father' unless it is true that God initiated his existence.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

So based on the previous logic and reason that I have derived from the biblical text I would say Jesus Christ (the living word) is the son of the living God (the father).

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself...
It is as if some Christians sit there and wait for the smallest thing that they can dispute and then jump onto it...
The Bible says that we were each given an interpretation – this gift of interpretation is not there so we can run each other into the ground. It is there for our MUTUAL edification.
//www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/chri ... each-other

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Re: Is God a material thing?

#15

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Are you a Mormon?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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