Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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zoegirl
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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#16

Post by zoegirl » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:48 pm

Let's face it, youtube on the whole, as is with the entirety of the internet, is comprised of a whole bunch of junk websites along with some good websites.

It takes wisdom and discernment to navigate through the garbage of all belief systems out there.

There are valuable Christian youtube videos and there are wacko "Christian" youtube vids out there. I've seen videos of "Christians" who are brainwashing their children to be prejudiced....and video tape their children singing awful songs.

Bottom line, the internet is free for all to post, which makes it both very valuable and yet saturated with all sorts of ignorant people who can't debate or argue or reason.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#17

Post by touchingcloth » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:58 pm

Very well put, zoegirl :clap:

There's a hell of a lot of knee-jerk videos on youtube, full of poorly thought-out ramblings. But there aren't many topics that you can't find decent videos about, as long as you do a bit of digging.

Any thoughts on derrick09's point that there might be a tendency for atheist videos to have a high rating, and christian videos to have low ones?

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#18

Post by zoegirl » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:17 pm

I would probably agree there, I wouldn't doubt that on the whole, the youtube community probably does contain more atheists or perhaps if not atheists, then certainly those who are immersed in the current media glut of secular thought.

If we even consider the fact that most youtubers are young, part of the new generation, then we can presume that they have most likely been raised immersed in television, internet, and this then becomes a part of our society.

I do think that most children nowadays are facing an onslaught of post-modern thinking, that does include a kind of situational ethics, overblown idea of tolerance and acceptance without critically thinking through the acceptance, and combined with poor critical thinking this does lead to that knee-jerk reaction. They have been raised to think that they should accept every type of behavior and believe everything is ok to somebody and they can't criticize or that is somehow unloving. Those that do espouse a belief that says "those things are wrong" are labeled hateful and mocked.

Not to mention that the top TV shows of many of the new generation include shows on MTV, The Hills, Gossip Grls, myriad "reality shows" that specialize in breeding situations for betrayal, gossip, viciousness, and promiscuity....we see in these shows the stereotypical response of "oh no she didn't" and an approval on the revenge to the thing she did.

Of course, the lack of critical thinking is not limited to secular education and I am quite willing to apply the brush broadly here. I will gladly criticize some of the Christian thinking out there, much o which is reminiscent of an ostrich with the head in the sand.

But with regards to youtube, I wouldn't doubt that in that particular representation of society, there is a higher portion of atheists.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#19

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:31 pm

zoegirl wrote:I do think that most children nowadays are facing an onslaught of post-modern thinking, that does include a kind of situational ethics, overblown idea of tolerance and acceptance without critically thinking through the acceptance, and combined with poor critical thinking this does lead to that knee-jerk reaction. They have been raised to think that they should accept every type of behavior and believe everything is ok to somebody and they can't criticize or that is somehow unloving. Those that do espouse a belief that says "those things are wrong" are labeled hateful and mocked.
SO true.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#20

Post by N4SC » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:22 pm

Most people today don't want to believe in God, and as a result they try their very best (and most of the time, worst) to find reasons supporting their love of sin and themselves and then construct a video of it to help reassure their truly cracked view of the universe. Sad but true, the majority wants to have their fun and ignore consequences while people shouting the genuine cure for a hellbent eternity are written off as close-minded bible-thumpers.

Not the most encouraging thought, I know. However, it's just going to be this way. It isn't going to change, but we still have to tell anyone who'll listen about the Gospel.
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
C. S. Lewis

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#21

Post by touchingcloth » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:37 pm

N4SC wrote:Most people today don't want to believe in God...
ReligionFacts.com's Big Religion Chart shows that atheists and the non-religious comprise 1.1 billion people worldwide. In other words, more than 4 out of 5 people have a faith.
N4SC wrote:...and as a result they try their very best (and most of the time, worst) to find reasons supporting their love of sin and themselves and then construct a video of it to help reassure their truly cracked view of the universe. Sad but true, the majority wants to have their fun and ignore consequences while people shouting the genuine cure for a hellbent eternity are written off as close-minded bible-thumpers.
Did you consider the possibility that people might be atheists because they don't believe god exists?

Out of interest, were any of your statements inspired by evidence or did you just type the first things that sprang into your mind?

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#22

Post by ManOfScience » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:13 am

derrick09 wrote:Personally, I don't watch any of the pro evolution and pro atheist videos since I'm afraid it could destroy my faith (my faith barely holding on anyhow)...
This is good! Question your faith! If it turns out that, after a thorough examination of the evidence, you find yourself not believing (in creation, in God, whatever), then so be it. You don't, in fact, you mustn't blindly follow. Question God at every turn; if you still believe, then good for God.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#23

Post by derwood » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:03 pm

derrick09 wrote: Atheists make my life miserable enough.

How so?

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#24

Post by ageofknowledge » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:04 pm

ManOfScience wrote:
derrick09 wrote:Personally, I don't watch any of the pro evolution and pro atheist videos since I'm afraid it could destroy my faith (my faith barely holding on anyhow)...
This is good! Question your faith! If it turns out that, after a thorough examination of the evidence, you find yourself not believing (in creation, in God, whatever), then so be it. You don't, in fact, you mustn't blindly follow. Question God at every turn; if you still believe, then good for God.
+1

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#25

Post by touchingcloth » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:09 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:
ManOfScience wrote:
derrick09 wrote:Personally, I don't watch any of the pro evolution and pro atheist videos since I'm afraid it could destroy my faith (my faith barely holding on anyhow)...
This is good! Question your faith! If it turns out that, after a thorough examination of the evidence, you find yourself not believing (in creation, in God, whatever), then so be it. You don't, in fact, you mustn't blindly follow. Question God at every turn; if you still believe, then good for God.
+1
+1 as well.

Personally I don't care so much what conclusion someone has reached, as long as they have used the tools of scepticism to get there. Methods are more important than opinions.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#26

Post by ageofknowledge » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:07 pm

touchingcloth wrote:
ageofknowledge wrote:
ManOfScience wrote:
derrick09 wrote:Personally, I don't watch any of the pro evolution and pro atheist videos since I'm afraid it could destroy my faith (my faith barely holding on anyhow)...
This is good! Question your faith! If it turns out that, after a thorough examination of the evidence, you find yourself not believing (in creation, in God, whatever), then so be it. You don't, in fact, you mustn't blindly follow. Question God at every turn; if you still believe, then good for God.
+1
+1 as well.

Personally I don't care so much what conclusion someone has reached, as long as they have used the tools of scepticism to get there. Methods are more important than opinions.
God cares though. Destinations matter. I gave man of science a +1 for finally showing a certain openness.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#27

Post by ModernAquinas » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:51 am

derrick09,

I know exactly how you feel, I've been there. I've denounced my faith two times in my life, but here I am, as strong as I've ever been in my faith, and I don't plan to denounce it, I'm now absolutely secure in it. Why? I went through a phase where I needed answers to my questions. At times, I would go sleepless, immersed in studying, and researching; trying to put the puzzle pieces together to the ultimate question: why? And, in that mind-set (double-minded, as Scripture states), I was whimsical, I would blow with the breeze; the first challenge to my faith put me into an insecure light, "what if they're right?"

My answer came in succession. Instead of looking at my beliefs through a theological point-of-view, I approached them through a philosophical point-of-view. I studied philosophy, logic and the natural sciences, extensively, using bits and pieces to confirm one another, and what I learned is that all knowledge is philosophically conveying, in a reductionist manner, the same thing; God, the First Cause, the Supreme Being, the absolute metaphysics, the purpose. In the words of Descartes on metaphysics, "Thus the whole of philosophy is like a tree: the roots are metaphysics, the trunk is physics, and the branches that issue from the trunk are all the other sciences". Without the roots, or First Cause (God, in this sense), the foundation of all certain knowledge is philosophically destroyed, and lends itself to the infamous infinite regression theory.

This is where the danger to the immature believer's faith being possibly destroyed comes into play (Thomas Aquinas talks about this in his summa; he opines that a believer shouldn't debate, or put on a public showing in the presence of believers weak in their faith). And by immature, I'm not implying anything malevolent, or insulting your intelligence; I use it in the sense that you don't have a secure foundation for your faith, you are an infant in Christ -- you need milk, not solid food. You have to understand the elementary truths of God's purpose, and law, before you can apply them. God wants you to question him, he wants you to test the spirits, and this boils down to knowledge. If you aren't informed, how can you test the spirits? You cannot, and thus this is where the confusion, and anger comes from. You aren't informed, you aren't learned; an equally uninformed nonbeliever exploits this weakness, they feed off of your ignorance, they parrot what another nonbeliever tells them, without even validating whether it's true or not, because the word of God is foolish to natural man, and they will use any means to discredit it. Peter talks about this in Scripture when explaining Paul's letters.

I'm not going to insult nonbelievers, and I don't mean to; there are very intelligent ones out there who operate on a code of ethics (Bertrand Russell, and Antony Flew, are excellent atheist philosophers who applied civility to debate and discussions; Flew isn't an atheist anymore, however). Most YouTube nonbelievers use no ethics, they don't want to discuss reality, they want to discuss the manipulation of reality. It is what it is isn't true to them, what's true to them is it is what I say it is. This is what's been labeled New Atheism, which relies on radical empiricism and egoism, not logic and reason. It's more or less existentialist Sophism, which is a form of purposely deceptive reasoning to confuse, and exploit, for personal gain.

However, this may appear gloom, it's really not. Once you get to the roots of most nonbeliever's philosophies you'll instantly notice inconsistencies, and contradictions. When you logically deconstruct their arguments, it indeed does, as touchingcloth says:
degenerate into both sides essentially shouting "but you're so stupid! I'm right, you're wrong! Duh!"
And I also agree with it being both sides. I love my brothers, and sisters, but some of the discussions, and reasoning, that I've witnessed are downright disgusting. There is no honor, or glory, of God when you resort to the same emotionally charged tactics of name-calling, and personal attacks. It only breeds further hatred, and anger. The reason that your faith is so brittle is, as I said, you aren't informed enough to defend it against objections. This leaves you submissive to irrational assertions. You must develop your critical thinking, you must educate yourself; dive into philosophy, dive into the natural sciences, dive into history, learn from them, apply them (love God with all your mind; reason with him). One of the reasons why I found this site so appealing is because science plays a descriptive role in faith, Scripture itself is rather vague when it comes to description. Its purpose is not to describe, it's purpose is to prescribe that Christ came in the flesh, fulfilled prophecy, and died on the cross. It's a testimony, not a science textbook. Saint Augustine held this view as well, he wasn't interested in Scripture's literal creation itself, he was interested in the prescriptive philosophy of how God, and man's relationship develops. He wanted to worship the Creator, not the creation.

Don't be afraid that things you read may undermine your faith, take things beyond face-value, test them. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. Ignorance breeds fear, fear breeds hate, hate breeds misery, and God, above all things is happiness, and love. God is not miserable. God does not want you to be miserable.

My affirmation to you, with all of the above aside, is that through my experience, I can, with absolute certainty say to you that your faith is secure if you wish to pursue further studies. There is no conclusive proof (it's not philosophically possible) of God's nonexistence, and any atheist, or nonbeliever, who asserts that there is, isn't operating on logic; they're operating on deceptive reasoning, or sophism. If they wish to believe that God does not exist, that's perfectly fine, and even valid. It's their decision to do so. I have much respect for those who've took the time to solidify their belief that they cannot, or will not, believe in the existence of a higher being. On that issue, I side with Thomas Aquinas, when he says:
Though one may deduce the existence of God and his Attributes (One, Truth, Good, Power, Knowledge) through reason, certain specifics may be known only through special revelation (such as the Trinity).
Reason can deduce the existence of a First Cause, and its necessary philosophical qualities; what reason cannot do, as said in the quote, is to arrive at conclusions about spiritual truths taught by the spirit, or revelation (i.e. the divinity of Christ). Many intellectuals reasoned like this such as Einstein, Spinoza, the Founding Fathers, etc., The death of Socrates was partially based on this very premise. He refused to accept the existence of the many Greek gods, and the democracy saw such beliefs as corrupting to their youth, but in his speech, or Plato's Apology, he references, and confirms, his belief in a singular God. And he was not apologetic for doing so.

Do not listen to divisive (and contentious) individuals (or groups), who claim that the scientific method, philosophy of science, or any other sciences, are antithetical to your beliefs (or your belief in the existence of God). I say this because most of those YouTube types you're referring to hold a world-view of scientism, materialism, physicalism, etc.,. If you wish to engage them in debate, or defend against their objections to your faith, don't cite Scripture, they won't listen; cite logic, like Paul did in Athens, Paul fearlessly took on the Stoics, and Epicureans; he knew he possessed the Truth.

I hope this helps. If you need further assistance, I'll more than gladly assist.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#28

Post by xpenzi » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:02 am

touchingcloth wrote:Atheists by definition don't affiliate with any religious group so they don't have a community they can instantly tap into.
This is a really good answer. As to why the atheist movement on youtube has been gaining so much momentum, I assume it is because people are now getting the chance to hear atheists' reasoning; something they may not have had a fair opportunity to do. I do not see anything wrong with someone who wants to hear both sides of the story.
derrick09 wrote:It seems like atheist videos have high view hits, high ratings, and they get their videos promoted if you will by the youbube coorporation.
Youtube is notorious for taking down atheist content. Many youtube atheists complain that their videos frequently disappear. This is why atheist videos and accounts are often mirrored. If anything, youtube officials disagree with the atheist community. Also, I have never seen an atheist video that was promoted.
derrick09 wrote:I don't want a atheist viewpoint on this and I don't want an atheist to participate in this thread so please be considerate and stop responding. Atheists make my life miserable enough.
I think this may be one of the reasons atheists are fighting so hard; because they are met with such unfair discrimination and bigotry. Touchingcloth took the time to read your half-page question, and he gave you a pretty good answer. You treated him like the scum of the earth, saying that his viewpoint is not wanted and not to participate in your topic.
I have to praise touchingcloth for trying to give honest answers and keeping his composure every time you tried to judge him and shoot him down for factors irrelevant to your question. Something has to be said for him not getting upset when there is so much unneeded hate directed at him.
Atheist make up a significant part of the population, if you close your life off to anyone simply because they do not believe, you will miss out on a lot of nice things in this world and do yourself a huge injustice.
As far as your statement about videos changing your beliefs, nobody has the right to tell you what to believe and what not to believe. I suggest you look at both sides and make a decision for yourself- It may even reinforce your current belief system!

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#29

Post by Vistronic » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:38 pm

Hello,
I do not think reason is your enemy. I do not think we must remain ignorate or we will lose our faith.
IMO I suggest feeding on the poitive for a while. Yes Athiests have a point, they make a valid point many times, but the Pro-Christian points out weigh it for me. But even if it did not, I was not saved by logic. So should I out think my salvation?

Christianity is very well covered by TV, Radio, Print and WEB. Many Christians I know are not into You-tube, twitter or facebook, I would say most are not that I know. That is just my own mental survey, your results may vary.

Peace
Vis.

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Re: Atheists and Youtube, what is the deal?

#30

Post by ageofknowledge » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:19 am

Atheists unconsciously reach out to try and fill the spiritual bankruptcy in their life. Ironically they chose an ultimately meaningless worldview to do that with: atheism. They end up working for the devil who deceived them disregarding God who loves them and wants them to know Him. In the end Jesus comes as savior or judge for each of us. The choice always has been and continues to be our own.

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