Do we ignore science?

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Do we ignore science?

#1

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:19 am

I'm still struggling with a lot of things relative to believing Christianity's story. Do we totally ignore the science? I watched a program last night called "How the earth was formed." Immediately following there was a program on the origins of life on earth. Much of the scientific community does not totally square with the biblical stories of the creation of earth and of life. Interestingly some things seem rather parallel such as the Cambrian Explosion which happened 530 million years ago and seems to have been a period where life appeared SUDDENLY here on earth. The 530 million year time span does not square with much of what I am to understand is said in the Bible.

In that this site is devoted to the Evidence for God from Science, I came here looking for answers. I am of the opinion that neither side has it totally correct. Science is based much on theory as a result of study and observation. The Christian community leans heavily towards a faith based belief based on the biblical stories. True, much of the bible is quite impressive and the prophecy end is what I find most compelling. Again though, one must rely on the biblical scholars and others who provide us with the dates of the prophecies and the dates at which they come true. I have no independent means of investigating these and must accept them at their word.

Still struggling.

Walt

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Do we ignore science?

#2

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:48 am

WConn wrote:I'm still struggling with a lot of things relative to believing Christianity's story. Do we totally ignore the science?
Nope..
WConn wrote:I watched a program last night called "How the earth was formed." Immediately following there was a program on the origins of life on earth. Much of the scientific community does not totally square with the biblical stories of the creation of earth and of life. Interestingly some things seem rather parallel such as the Cambrian Explosion which happened 530 million years ago and seems to have been a period where life appeared SUDDENLY here on earth. The 530 million year time span does not square with much of what I am to understand is said in the Bible.
Not exactly, you will find most of the explanations for the old earth here.. The Bible does not say how old the earth is.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ation.html
WConn wrote:In that this site is devoted to the Evidence for God from Science, I came here looking for answers. I am of the opinion that neither side has it totally correct. Science is based much on theory as a result of study and observation. The Christian community leans heavily towards a faith based belief based on the biblical stories.
Walt, when it comes to our origins, both views (evolution or creation) are actually faith based. One doesn't weigh more on science more than the other.. There is a point where the whole debate actually touches the philosophical.
WConn wrote:True, much of the bible is quite impressive and the prophecy end is what I find most compelling. Again though, one must rely on the biblical scholars and others who provide us with the dates of the prophecies and the dates at which they come true. I have no independent means of investigating these and must accept them at their word.

Walt
I don't believe that to be true. A lot of the information comes from non-biblical sources as well.. Archeology, as an example, has been shown to back up most of what the Bible declares.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ology.html
WConn wrote:Still struggling.
Well everyone has their struggles.. I'm still struggling myself. For over 40 years I've been waiting for science to give me concrete proof that evolution (without the help of God) is the answer for our origins. Alas, it has provided nothing. Only assumptions and conjecture. :P


Take care..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#3

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:10 am

Gman,

Thank you. I guess much of what I know and assume is the result of misinterpreted reading and what I have heard from those who say they believe and know everything. I asked a Baptist friend of mine if he believed that God created everything in 6 days as we know them (a day) today and he said YES. In short he says he believes the bible literally. The interpretation of the bible by others who says the earth and mankind are 6K years old leave me in a quandry. So someone must be wrong.

I agree that evolution requires a certain amount of faith to believe, but I am a science guy with a background in the nuclear sciences and I am the type that needs to know the truth and things must add up. I guess I just wish God would show up in our lifetime and let us know what he let the ancients know and see. In my case he is asking a lot for me to believe and understand some of the things he does. In short, I WANT to believe, but thus far I have not
come to any solid conclusions. It's getting more and more difficult.

I will continue to read, study and try to understand and I appreciate your help, guidance and information.

Walt

User avatar
warhoop
Recognized Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:06 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Oregon
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#4

Post by warhoop » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:40 pm

WConn wrote:In short he says he believes the bible literally. The interpretation of the bible by others who says the earth and mankind are 6K years old leave me in a quandry. So someone must be wrong.
What does that mean to you? To read the bible literally? And if you had to lay odds, would you bet on the word of God or on a dynamic philosophy?

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#5

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:54 pm

warhoop wrote:
WConn wrote:In short he says he believes the bible literally. The interpretation of the bible by others who says the earth and mankind are 6K years old leave me in a quandry. So someone must be wrong.
What does that mean to you? To read the bible literally? And if you had to lay odds, would you bet on the word of God or on a dynamic philosophy?
Well I would bet on the word of God, but it's the interpretation of the word of God that is in question. God has not showed up to tell me what he was saying or thinking. We rely on others to do that at least to some degree. The dynamic philosophy? Don't know exactly what you mean by this but again the word of God would take precedence. Out literal interpretation of anything depends on our language skills and ability to understand. I am told I am to take the Bible literally, and that I am NOT to take the Bible literally. There does not appear to be a consensus.

Walt

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Do we ignore science?

#6

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:58 pm

WConn wrote:Gman,

Thank you. I guess much of what I know and assume is the result of misinterpreted reading and what I have heard from those who say they believe and know everything. I asked a Baptist friend of mine if he believed that God created everything in 6 days as we know them (a day) today and he said YES. In short he says he believes the bible literally. The interpretation of the bible by others who says the earth and mankind are 6K years old leave me in a quandry. So someone must be wrong.
While many Bible believers claim that the world was created in a literal 6 days, there are also a number of them that believe in an old earth. Contrary to popular belief, the idea of an old earth was actually popularized by Biblical scholars such as Augustine (340 AD) way before Darwin made it popular. Baptists certainly don't have an authority over scripture..
WConn wrote: I agree that evolution requires a certain amount of faith to believe, but I am a science guy with a background in the nuclear sciences and I am the type that needs to know the truth and things must add up. I guess I just wish God would show up in our lifetime and let us know what he let the ancients know and see. In my case he is asking a lot for me to believe and understand some of the things he does. In short, I WANT to believe, but thus far I have not
come to any solid conclusions. It's getting more and more difficult.

I will continue to read, study and try to understand and I appreciate your help, guidance and information.

Walt
I like science too, I have studied anthropology and astronomy in College although my degrees are in computer science. I think things should add up too.. And I have found that they do with the Bible. In short I'm still struggling with how someone could believe that we got here by random chance mutations. I simply cannot grasp how someone could believe that it has all the answers. I find it very difficult. The more I dig into it, the more I find it is built entirely on faith and not science.

Cheers.. ;)
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#7

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:40 pm

Gman wrote:
While many Bible believers claim that the world was created in a literal 6 days, there are also a number of them that believe in an old earth. Contrary to popular belief, the idea of an old earth was actually popularized by Biblical scholars such as Augustine (340 AD) way before Darwin made it popular. Baptists certainly don't have an authority over scripture..
I guess I misinterpreted things. Again, many of my friends insist that the literal interpretation of the bible is right. 6 days is 6 days but apparently the days in those days were longer....and now my head is ready to explode.
I like science too, I have studied anthropology and astronomy in College although my degrees are in computer science. I think things should add up too.. And I have found that they do with the Bible. In short I'm still struggling with how someone could believe that we got here by random chance mutations. I simply cannot grasp how someone could believe that it has all the answers. I find it very difficult. The more I dig into it, the more I find it is built entirely on faith and not science.
I agree. It is hard to believe that all this happened by chance. There are outstanding arguments for creation vs evolution, what perhaps has clouded things for me has been arguments for creation which were poorly done. This arrogant concept that that's just the way it is does not sit well with me. I'm getting there Gman. Slowly but surely, at least I hope so.

Walt

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#8

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:42 pm

I'm not doing the quote thing too well am I Vicki?

Walt

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Do we ignore science?

#9

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:47 pm

WConn wrote:I agree. It is hard to believe that all this happened by chance. There are outstanding arguments for creation vs evolution, what perhaps has clouded things for me has been arguments for creation which were poorly done. This arrogant concept that that's just the way it is does not sit well with me. I'm getting there Gman. Slowly but surely, at least I hope so.

Walt
I think that there is a touch of arrogance that lives on both sides.. Again I would stress that no one really knows how it all came together. It's all speculation at best.. Ultimately I think we choose according to our philosophical premises and not really science.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#10

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:06 pm

Gman wrote:
I think that there is a touch of arrogance that lives on both sides.. Again I would stress that no one really knows how it all came together. It's all speculation at best.. Ultimately I think we choose according to our philosophical premises and not really science.

Agreed, arrogance lives on both sides. However you said that you would stress that "no one really knows how it all came together. It's all speculation at best." That seems to be somewhat less than a faithful Christian belief system. I agree with you but I am the fence sitter here. I get the feeling that you Gman are a true Christian reaching out to someone like me and trying to help me along the way, something I appreciate very much. I guess I am surprised at your comment. In my mind this is a good thing really, you are saying you don't have all the answers, you don't know all there is to know on the subject. I am a patch holder in an MC and I associate at times with the Christian Motorcycle Association. Most of them would take a hard line stand along these lines. While I respect them, I don't think they truly believe some of the things they say.

Walt

User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Do we ignore science?

#11

Post by Gman » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:33 pm

WConn wrote: Agreed, arrogance lives on both sides. However you said that you would stress that "no one really knows how it all came together. It's all speculation at best." That seems to be somewhat less than a faithful Christian belief system. I agree with you but I am the fence sitter here. I get the feeling that you Gman are a true Christian reaching out to someone like me and trying to help me along the way, something I appreciate very much. I guess I am surprised at your comment. In my mind this is a good thing really, you are saying you don't have all the answers, you don't know all there is to know on the subject. I am a patch holder in an MC and I associate at times with the Christian Motorcycle Association. Most of them would take a hard line stand along these lines. While I respect them, I don't think they truly believe some of the things they say.

Walt
Just trying to be truthful... ;)

We don't know, although I would agree that somewhere along the way God had a hand in it. Should we make the claim that we have all the answers when it comes to science? Absolutely not... We need to get real with ourselves. I'll even make the claim that I don't know all things of the Bible and God too. That would be silly.. No one really knows.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#12

Post by WConn » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:59 pm

Gman wrote:
Just trying to be truthful... ;)

We don't know, although I would agree that somewhere along the way God had a hand in it. Should we make the claim that we have all the answers when it comes to science? Absolutely not... We need to get real with ourselves. I'll even make the claim that I don't know all things of the Bible and God too. That would be silly.. No one really knows.
Gman, your honesty only enhances your credibility. Those who claim to know it all probably know the least of all. I encounter those who want to tell me what to think and believe, those people turn me off. I have read much of the information in the links you sent. I believe that archeology has done much to answer questions and actually prove many biblical points. Not only archeology but in the past I have read about Nasa satellites using ground penetrating radar and mapping capabilities to show road to ancient cities mentioned in the bible and unfound until these modern methods proved their existence. As I said, it's a matter of misinterpretation on both sides which causes confusion.

I continue to read, study and try to understand.

Walt

User avatar
warhoop
Recognized Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:06 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Oregon
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#13

Post by warhoop » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:23 pm

I find that the longer that I am in the faith, the more questions I seem to have and that can and does lead to doubt. But if God has been faithful in these areas of my life over here, why should I doubt his truthfulness in these other areas. The God that transforms hearts and minds certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt. And as Gman alluded earlier, this conflict between contemporary science and the bible has only recently surfaced within recent decades. As a result of a materialistic/naturalistic worldview, we "modern" christians feel compelled to make this worldview mesh with scripture and perhaps we've got it all wrong. Not to lay blame because we are all a product of our culture which is why I asked what literal meant to you. After having read John Walton's book, "The Lost World of Genesis One," I'm inclined to believe that we are asking the bible questions that it does not and never intended to answer. My study continues however, as I am not one, as you, too accept things at face value. I must renew my prayer then, not for understanding, comprehension, or knowledge, but to allow God to speak through His word.

cslewislover
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2333
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:09 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Southern California
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: Do we ignore science?

#14

Post by cslewislover » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 pm

WConn wrote:I'm not doing the quote thing too well am I Vicki?

Walt
:lol:

I'll fix it, and you can go see what it looks like.
Image
"I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis

WConn
Established Member
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:15 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Do we ignore science?

#15

Post by WConn » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:52 am

cslewislover wrote:
WConn wrote:I'm not doing the quote thing too well am I Vicki?

Walt
:lol:

I'll fix it, and you can go see what it looks like.
Thanks, never sure if I am doing things right.

Walt

Post Reply