What is a soul?

[jake7264]

Is it our ego? Our self awareness? Are our thoughts the product of our soul's work?

[ageofknowledge]

I would like to see B.W. respond to this question. This is right up his alley.

[jlay]

You are a soul.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (nshmth) of life; and man became a living soul (nphsh). Gen 2:7

The breath of life (nshmth) is the spirit. Spirit and body together create a living soul or nphsh. That would be an old testament way of looking at it.

[Jac3510]

You may be interseted in this thread: Human "souls". There was an extended discussion there about this very issue.

[B. W.]

I would like to see B.W. respond to this question. This is right up his alley.

Not sure I can give one other than that the bible uses the words transaleted "Souls" in several different contexts. A Soul can mean the Entire Person, or the Mind / thoughts, or the 'Shade' of person - the eniter person after they have died. It can also refer to emotions -- example: My soul stired within me. As used in the bible, the word Soul has several meanings according to the context it is used. One error is to limit the word soul to only one meaning avoiding the context it is used which helps defines soul.

Taking a composite and collecting all the usages of the word soul - what would one disover makes up the soul?

From there we can understand what the soul is in a better light.

Also, I could not locate the article in Jac's Link - Jac can you do a direct link to article. Link takes you to a front search page and from there - where is it?
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[Jac3510]

Sorry BW -- thread is here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 19&t=33404

Under the philosophy forum. It was a discussion between K and I a few months back. He defended substance dualism, where I defended composite dualism. The former is a newer position among Christian philosophers; the latter is the position of classical theism. Frankly, one of the reasons I accept the latter is precisely because of issues like the ones Jake brings up. I don't think the concept of us actually being separate souls inside our body can account for these types of objections. But you can read through the thread yourself and see what you think.

[B. W.]

Sorry BW -- thread is here: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 19&t=33404

Under the philosophy forum. It was a discussion between K and I a few months back. He defended substance dualism, where I defended composite dualism. The former is a newer position among Christian philosophers; the latter is the position of classical theism. Frankly, one of the reasons I accept the latter is precisely because of issues like the ones Jake brings up. I don't think the concept of us actually being separate souls inside our body can account for these types of objections. But you can read through the thread yourself and see what you think.

Well, that is kind of how the word translated soul is used but let's see what other's say as well as the bible.

Idea" Maybe we should post a few verses and thier context where soul is used may help uncover what it means...
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[Jac3510]

That's fair, B.W. The word nephesh has a very wide range of meanings. Roughly, it can mean life, soul, creature, person, appetite, mind, etc. In Arabic, a cognate language of Hebrew, it can even mean throat (so also in some Bible verses; cf. Isa 5:14).

Jumping into details, apparentely, it originally had the concrete meaning of "to breathe" (cf. Akkadian napashu, "to blow out, to breathe"). Gen 1:30 is one such example of this usage, describing animals as having in them the "breath of life [nephesh]). The idea of living is clearly associated with breathing, which may account for why plants were not considered living; certainly, at least, as not having nephesh.

Interestingly, the word can also refer to the appetite, and so can refer to the hunger for food. See Deut 23:24. It can also refer to one's spiritual appetite (that is, one's desires): Prov 13:2. Again, we see a common theme, for living things have desires. They want this or that, and idea which Aristotle called "passions."

Related to the appetite, it is interesting to note that about 20 times, the word is actually the subject of 'awa ("to crave", "to desire"). Thus, it is not the nephesh that is craved, but rather the nephesh that does the craving. In this sense, it seems to refer to the person or thing itself. I may call my desire my nephesh; on the other hand, I, myself, can be called a nepesh who desires. See II Sam 3:21, PS 107:9, etc. This is further confirmed in that the verb saba' ("to satisfy") sometimes occurs with nephesh, i.e., Isa 56:11. This is very common in Eccl, where the nephesh lacks things and is never satisfied (2:24; 4:8; 6:2; etc.). Other than food or actions, the object of desire may even be a person, including God. See Isa 26:8-9. From this, it seems clear that my "soul's" desire for God is equivelant only to my own. We have yet to distinguish between some my body and some immaterial substance with me.

The idea of desire includes other uses of the word: it can refer to yearning (Hos 4:8) or to love (Song 1:7), both of male-female and friendships (1 Sam 18:1), or to the human-Divine (Ps 63:9). In this context, Deut 6:5 is especially interesting, because we are to love God with our heart (lebab), our soul (nephesh), and our might ([/i]me'od[/i]). The idea doesn't seem to be three separate PARTS of the person, but rather, they all reinforce the singular aspect of the person doing the loving/desiring/yearing for God. If our "souls" are bound to others--as David's was to Jonathan's--and thus we serve one another, how much more should we serve with the totality of our being the God to Whom our souls have been bound. The nephesh, then, strongly refers to personal desire or inclination.

The word can refer to emotional aspects of the person. It can hate (II Sam 5:8), be joyful (Ps 86:4), pleased (Prov 2:10), delighted (Prov 29:17), or bitter (Job 27:2).

It can refer to the totality of the person (Isa 10:18, where it is used alongside of "the body"). Thus, "Since personal existence by its very nature involves drives, appetites, desires, will, nephesh denotes the 'life' of an individual." (TWOT) It can be revived and restored (Lam 1:16), saved (Josh 2:13), and sustained (Ruth 4:15). It is also closely associated with the idea of living (Gen 12:13; 19:20; 20:32; Isa 55:3, etc.). Thus, it can be transalted as "life," but not in the abstract sense of hayyim, which denotes life generally, but in the specific sense of a particular thing's life.

With all this, it is not suprising that nephesh is often best understood as "person" or "self" (Lev 7:20; Jer 52:28, etc.). God even refers to Himself this way in Gen 19:19.

Finally, passages like Lev 19:28 are very instructive, for they talk about the dead nephesh, refering to a body. This seems to tie very much personhood with one's body. While such obviously would not apply to God, it is expressly applied to mankind.

All in all, it seems best to understand the "soul" as simply the "life" and all that derives from that. It is the totality of the person, sometimes emphasizing their desires, feelings, life, body, etc. I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible--especially the OT, which must form our understanding of the NT idea of the "soul"--that a separate, ghostly substance resides inside the body.

Your thoughts?

[Byblos]

This is again a subject beyond my limited intellect so I defer to the more learned in my circles. Jac, take a look when you can at the following link and let me know what you think. There's a ton of material but you should be familiar with most of it. Scroll down to the title 'Man (Spirit and Matter)' and pay particular attention to questions 75 (nature of soul in itself), 76 (its union with the body), and 89 (the soul separated from the body). I'd be very interested in your opinion.

[B. W.]

...All in all, it seems best to understand the "soul" as simply the "life" and all that derives from that. It is the totality of the person, sometimes emphasizing their desires, feelings, life, body, etc. I haven't seen anywhere in the Bible--especially the OT, which must form our understanding of the NT idea of the "soul"--that a separate, ghostly substance resides inside the body.

Your thoughts?

That well pretty much covers it, Jac.

Let's see in classical Greek Psyche was viewed as something (like breath) that gives life to humanity. Psyche (soul) expressed the life within or simply life. Psyche is linked to Thymos which speaks of blood of a living being flowing. Psyche (soul) was related to express a life force, of all emotions, of all thoughts that define a person as a living individual entity. Psyche is more related to conscious living including intelligence - and more functionally related to functions of...being alive (if that makes sense).

In a Christian sense one's soul (One's life force, all emotions, all thoughts, intelligence etc) are either dead to God or alive to Him. A Soul dead in sin would refer to how all ones life force, emotions, thoughts, intelligence, etc are opposed to God preferring darkness of life rather than light of life. A Person saved and being transformed by the power of the Lord their Soul is being made alive - ones life force is vivified, all emotions, thoughts, intelligence, etc are toward the Lord and away from doing darkness through process of growth — change. These both include the actions of the body.

Ancient Greek thought viewed Soul in dual form whereas the physical body is combined with a Soul (life force, all emotions, all thoughts, etc) that makes one alive. When one died the life force of the soul left and the body remained to decay. A dead soul indicated one's life force left to live elsewhere as a disembodied soul. That's ends up into the Greek Philosophers like Plato etc…which we should not digress too much into right now as Christianity does not teach reincarnation — transmigration.

Basically the Psyche (soul) became to represent the inward part of a person — one's personality that made them unique from another. The Psyche (soul) controlled all movement of the living physical body, defines what is pleasure and pain, is, and contains all thoughts (mind) and emotions. You can say Psyche (soul) represented the seat of perception, thought, emotion, love, desire, etc -- Almost similar how the Hebrew Leb was used to indicate Heart.

Jumping ahead to the New Testament and LXX use of Psyche one gathers that the entire living person of being a living human being — the essence of being human — our life force that makes human beings different than souls of animals is being implied by the various ways the word is used. I guess if you want to sum it up it would be the life force that defines us and makes us human beings. Soul was also used to indicate a body that either was living or had died.

Like you said, “…All in all, it seems best to understand the "soul" as simply the "life" and all that derives from that. It is the totality of the person, sometimes emphasizing their desires, feelings, life, body, etc.” (I aggree with this)

That pretty much sums it up. It depends on the context how one uses the word Soul is how to best define it. A Soul can also represent other things as well like in 1 Thess 5:23 and in my opinion is where and how the word can become confused in it applications.

For example only: What is soul referring to in context of verses 12-24 ? Note the change in mode of operation Paul is stressing: hence, may you in your 'totality' agree and be doing these things... God sanctifying and preserving a believer for the coming of the Lord Paul was writing about earlier.

There are three distinction being made here, spirit, soul, and body. The use of these three separate distinctions kind of speaks like this — God changing our spirits, which in turn changes our soul (One's life force, all our emotions, all our thoughts, all our intelligence, all or reason, etc) which in turn changes into actions of the body so one can do what verses 12-24 are saying to do so we can do blamelessly and be found blameless by the Lord.

There is a distinction being made in 1 Thess 5:23, is that what we all are trying to look into?

(Spirit symbolized Substance (essence) — Soul symbolized Function — Body symbolized function of the doing of Spirit and Soul. All three were one yet were still three distinct parts that make Human — human beings. That is a mouthful and I'll leave it at that for now. Look at context of 1 Th 5:12-24 again and let us know if you see this...

We would have to look into how the word Spirit is used from Hebrew to Greek to understand what is meant by Spirit, which is not confined only to mean breathing. Its use is deeper than that. You can say, Spirit is the very essence of a person — representing their Substance / essence. That is even more of a mouthful… as what defines substance? Spirit was often used to indicate the energy of life, power and very substance of one's life that quickens the soul and body…into action. Clear as mud - right???

What makes it more confusing is that sometimes Soul is used to represent Spirit! Oh well enough for now...)
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[ageofknowledge]

in the begininng of the ninth grade, I had an out of body experience. I had just begun fighting two older kids on the high school front lawn from another high school that had disrespected me on their way home when one of them charged me colliding into me. I remember suddenly rising about 25 feet above the scene and seeing it all in the slowest motion while I was in normal time. I felt great exhiliration and peace and as if I could just leave permanently. But then I had a sense I shouldn't and came back into my body and proceeded forward.

Now I hadn't ever had a drug in my life at this time in my life. So how do you account for that if there's no separation of our spirit from our body upon death? I know what I experienced though it was many years ago.

[B. W.]

The word translated 'Soul' can be used in many different contexts. It can be used instead of spirit or as to include spirit and soul as a whole. Look at how the word translated Soul is used in the following verse:

Matthew 10:28, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” ESV

One, you cannot kill the soul. Two, both soul and body can be cast somewhere. How is the word Soul being used here? It is used to express the spiritual essence of one after they die. The soul continues on in how we today would call — spiritual form.

Since Soul expresses wholeness of someone and note that body is not included in this wholeness in this particular passage, then soul here includes the whole Spiritual Part of human beings. Thus soul used here refers to the entire part of a person that continues on immediately after they depart the body: The wholeness of both spirit and soul together can be applied here.

When people use the word soul to mean a ghostly body after death then they are using the word correctly because they have set a context to it, like Jesus did in the verse example. You can do that. You can also, according to context use soul to indicate only one's ego or mean their living entire being. It is just how the word is used.

Notice in the next verse how soul is translated as mind.

Php 1:27, “Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind (Soul) striving side by side for the faith of the gospel…” ESV

Paul is making a distinction between soul and spirit here regarding the Philippian Church. He is stating that they collectively stand in one energized-enabled-empowered spirit with one Soul (entire body's ability, mind, thought ego, deeds) striving side by side for the faith of the gospel.

Next verse also shows distinction between one's Spirit and Soul:

Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” ESV

There is a distinction and context indicates how the word is used and what meaning it has. If it helps a person to understand that a Soul can be a ghostly body, then that is okay, as the word can be used that way to express what makes a “Shade” the living spiritual essence of a person after they depart their body.

We can split hairs over this word but to what avail? If it is used in such manner to pick a fight with others, I would say, please drop it. Just a study of how the word soul is used in all its varied contexts should reveal to us that it can be used to express more than one thing.

Hope this helps
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[warhoop]

There is a distinction being made in 1 Thess 5:23, is that what we all are trying to look into?

I think Paul is setting up the hierarchy. Unregenerated, our spirit is "dead." As a result of the Fall, a shift in power has taken place and our spirit has been conquered and thus subjected to or enveloped by our soul. So the chain of command has become soul and then spirit or soul then body then spirit. Either way, it's all screwed up. Since we can only commune with God through the spirit, the spirit must not only be resurrected, but it must be separated from the soul. Hence Hebrews 4:12, the two must be separated in order for the rightful commander to be able to call the plays. (Mmmm...mixed metaphors... )