The scientific proof for Genesis

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Gman
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#16

Post by Gman » Wed May 27, 2009 5:41 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:Interesting how we read God's word saying the sun, moon, and stars were made on the 4th day, but we "reason" that they were already there prior to the 1st... For whom were the "clouds and gases" removed on the 4th day to reveal the already created sun, etc? Clearly there was light and so the light from the newly created sun wouldn't have been anything new for the plant life.
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It can be a bit confusing, but if you look at it in the Hebrew, it's a bit clearer. In the fourth day it doesn't say that God created the sun, moon and the stars. It states that he "made" them, which is the Hebrew word "asa" translated as the verb "made". When the Hebrew word "asa" is used it is usually used to denote an action already completed.

Genesis 1:16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

Genesis 1:16 simply does not specify when in the past the sun, moon, and stars were made. However in Genesis 1:1, it does says that it was created using the Hebrew word "erets" or "hashamayim we ha' erets," heavens (plural) and the earth (singular). "Hashamayim we ha' erets" consistently refers to the totality of the physical universe. All matter and energy and whatever else it contains....
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#17

Post by Gman » Wed May 27, 2009 9:20 pm

I thought I would also add here... The Genesis creation story takes place if you were standing on earth looking towards the heavens, not looking from the heavens to the earth. It's like you are literally standing on earth witnessing God's creation take place.... Once you get this frame of mind, then the creation story makes plain sense..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#18

Post by ElShamah » Wed May 27, 2009 9:29 pm

For whom were the "clouds and gases" removed on the 4th day to reveal the already created sun, etc?
Dr.Hugh Ross explains the clouds and gases where removed for the animals, which were created at that time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNuHuG51 ... re=related

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#19

Post by robyn hill » Wed May 27, 2009 9:39 pm

Gman-Just wanted to say YOU ROCK! I appreciate how much work you do on here and wanted you to know your diligent effort inspires and confirms. :clap:

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#20

Post by ElShamah » Thu May 28, 2009 5:31 am

Gman wrote:So let's look at the comparison.

Genesis............................Scientific data..................................

1. Heavens and Earth...........1. Big Bang
2. Earth covered in darkness...2. First atmosphere (gaseous silica)
3. Light...........................3. Solar winds exposes the land to light
4. Water vapor (clouds)........4. Second atmosphere (water vapor, carbon dioxide)
5. Dry land appears.............5. Pangea (the first continents)
6. Plant life......................6. Plant life (early cambrian)
7. Sun, moon, stars visible.....7. Third atmosphere (ozone layer)
8. Marine life....................8. Marine life
9. Animals........................9. Animals (cambrian explosion)
10. Humans.....................10. Humans

So what are the chances of the Genesis writer getting this order correct on the first try if he picked random numbers 1 to 10 out of a box? The first try would be 1 in 3,628,800. Not a very good chance...

Gman

does it have to be this order ?

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#21

Post by Gman » Thu May 28, 2009 12:09 pm

ElShamah wrote:does it have to be this order ?
According to science yes.... It's generally in the correct order.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#22

Post by Proinsias » Thu May 28, 2009 6:35 pm

I heard that some of the confusion surrounding the sun, stars and light may be attributed in part to the author trying to emphasize that the sun, moon and stars were not gods to be worshiped in their own right which would have been rather prevalent at the time. Something which is not much of an issue these days, possibly due to this.

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#23

Post by Gman » Thu May 28, 2009 7:45 pm

Proinsias wrote:I heard that some of the confusion surrounding the sun, stars and light may be attributed in part to the author trying to emphasize that the sun, moon and stars were not gods to be worshiped in their own right which would have been rather prevalent at the time. Something which is not much of an issue these days, possibly due to this.
Possibly, but if we take the Genesis account to mean that you were standing on earth looking towards the heavens (during the creation) then you really wouldn't be able to see the the sun, moon and stars until day 4 due to the thick atmosphere. In this case it would make perfect sense. Also the phrase "Let there be lights" in 1:14 is also compelling evidence that it was already created in 1:1.

1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;

I don't think creating the sun in day 1 or four would really diminish sun worship. Since God created everything out of time, space and matter, in the first place (before time itself). In this case it could be placed anywhere...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#24

Post by Gman » Thu May 28, 2009 8:18 pm

Here is an interesting verse that states the heavens where associated with stars. Exactly as stated in Genesis 1:1... So heavens = stars.

Genesis 15:5

5 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#25

Post by Gman » Thu May 28, 2009 8:44 pm

robyn hill wrote:Gman-Just wanted to say YOU ROCK! I appreciate how much work you do on here and wanted you to know your diligent effort inspires and confirms. :clap:
Thanks robyn.. Just playing around here. :P
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#26

Post by DannyM » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:40 am

Gman

I'm very impressed, bowled over. Nicely done!

Dan

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#27

Post by analynsarte » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:50 am

Interesting post!!!
God is not just an artist but also an architect. He is a many splendored genius.
-----------------
Science News and Reasearch

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#28

Post by WConn » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:24 pm

Gman wrote:So let's look at the comparison.

Genesis............................Scientific data..................................

1. Heavens and Earth...........1. Big Bang
2. Earth covered in darkness...2. First atmosphere (gaseous silica)
3. Light...........................3. Solar winds exposes the land to light
4. Water vapor (clouds)........4. Second atmosphere (water vapor, carbon dioxide)
5. Dry land appears.............5. Pangea (the first continents)
6. Plant life......................6. Plant life (early cambrian)
7. Sun, moon, stars visible.....7. Third atmosphere (ozone layer)
8. Marine life....................8. Marine life
9. Animals........................9. Animals (cambrian explosion)
10. Humans.....................10. Humans

So what are the chances of the Genesis writer getting this order correct on the first try if he picked random numbers 1 to 10 out of a hat? The first try would be 1 in 3,628,800. Not a very good chance...
Well done Gman, these are the kinds of things I look for. Science and God can coexist. Genesis does makes sense as do many other things I have read.
Thank you.

W

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#29

Post by TellMe~Ily » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:47 am

:?
:esurprised:
:ebiggrin:
:amen:

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#30

Post by Keith » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:20 am

Gman

I like your opening post but could I try to extend your thoughts and suggest that you have made the same mistake as science in putting the 'Big Bang' at ''Creation' instead of at 'The Fall'?

Many years ago I was horrified, when watching a TV debate between Oxford & Cambridge theologians and scientists, that the theologians had no idea how to answer the atheist scientists who completely demolished them.

I asked God to explain why and the answer was that originally the Genesis Creation was within God's Mind in Eternity which is timelessness. God is purity alone and cannot allow contamination by evil. The void was space and God encapsulated all of the evil it contained into the biblical apple. Having no darkness within which to hide evil God placed it in full view of Adam and gave him just one law “Do not steal.” Adam did and because God had given Him control of our universe the whole of Creation was instantaneously expelled into space-time where it congealed into the physical and the life and death cycle commenced and the need to be clothed and grow food to survived came about.

It is necessary to grasp the difference between time and timelessness by understanding that a blink of an eye in eternity can be a million years in time. Thus when God called out to Adam “Where art thou” it was not instantaneous but only after the universe had settled down as God brought His Love to shine upon it and He could start to rescue the humans He had created in His Image. First the flood, then the exodus and finally by incarnating on earth Himself and by returning to Heaven providing an Eternal Pathway to Salvation for all who wished to follow Him.

From this it follows that what science calls evolution has been God eliminating the aberrations in everything caused by the transmutation of the spiritual creation into the physical. Space means evil so we now exist in Satan's kingdom not Gods' and accounts for the ebb and flow of goodness as both fight for humans who still control creation.

Perhaps this new slant on reconciling science with religion will provoke some more discussion?

Keith

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