The scientific proof for Genesis

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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The scientific proof for Genesis

#1

Post by Gman » Fri May 22, 2009 11:48 am

Science agrees that the chronological order of the Genesis creation account is quite accurate. That being the universe, sun, moon, and earth was created first then out of the water came dry land, then plants, marine life, animals, and finally man. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis got this order correct in the first place? Here we can clearly use science to prove God's creation. This account is told as if one was standing on the earth and witnessing God's creation...

1. God creates the heavens (the universe, stars, sun, moon) and the earth. The universe had a finite beginning. Genesis 1:1

Fact: Scientists also agree that the universe had a finite beginning starting with the Big Bang.

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2. The earth was covered in water and darkness was over the water. Genesis 1:2

Fact: Research has confirmed both theoretically and observationally (via studies of Earth's oldest rocks) that indeed water initially covered most of the earth's crust. The first atmosphere was also full of volcanic debris and other harmful gases from the initial creation that would have prevented any light from coming through it.

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3. God allows light to permeate through the darkness unto the earth. Genesis 1:3

Fact: After a while, the solar winds would have blown away the volcanic debris and gases exposing some light in the first atmosphere. Scientists also agree that light would have been the first thing needed to conduct plant life through photosynthesis and heat up the earth.

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4. God creates thick clouds or water vapor in the earth's atmosphere. Genesis 1: 6-7

Fact: Scientists agree that the earth would require a stable water cycle of condensation and future precipitation for lifes survival. This water vapor cover would be an ideal environment (greenhouse) for growing plants, trapping heat and melting ice. Also known as the second atmosphere, this vapor layer was so thick that the stars, sun and moon were not clearly visible.

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5. God separates the dry land from the water in one place. Genesis 1: 9-10

Fact: Most scientists agree that the land was one land mass called Pangaea that formed out of the water then split apart to make the other continents.

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6. God creates plants on earth. Genesis 1: 11-12

Fact: Scientists agree that plants were the first living organisms to colonize the earth before the complex land animals (deer, fox, bear) and fish. Plant life is crucial for the creation of oxygen, the removal of carbon dioxide, and creating sugars and food for the mammals.

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7. God clears the clouds and allows the sun, moon and stars to be discernible in the skies and to mark the days and seasons. Genesis 1: 14-16

Fact: In the first and second atmospheres a water vapor canopy, gases, and other debris surrounded the earth. After the plants started to develop, these dense atmospheres diminished (exposing the stars, sun and moon) as the plants produced enough oxygen to produce our third atmosphere which includes the ozone layer which now protects us from the ultraviolet radiation. The ozone layer is critical for sustaining life and giving us clear skies to see the heavens.

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8. God creates marine life. Genesis 1: 20-22

Fact: Most scientists agree that marine life did indeed arise before the land animals and man. With light, breathable air, dry land, oceans, plants, water cycles, and an ozone layer to protect them, the world is now ready for sea creatures and animals and eventually humans.

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9. God creates animals. Genesis 1: 24-25

Fact: Scientists agree that virtually every animal phyla (including chordates and many phyla now extinct) appeared during a short geological moment.

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10. God creates mankind. Genesis 1: 26-27

Fact: According to the geologic time scale, scientists agree that mankind was one of the last mammals created on the earth. Exactly like the Genesis account.

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The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#2

Post by zoegirl » Fri May 22, 2009 11:57 am

nice!!
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#3

Post by godslanguage » Fri May 22, 2009 5:23 pm

Pangea is interesting to me in terms of utilizing land area while supplying necessary resources since water would be distributed and supplied throughout.

Good job Gman!
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#4

Post by cslewislover » Fri May 22, 2009 5:39 pm

:clap:
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#5

Post by Gman » Fri May 22, 2009 6:26 pm

Thanks guys... It took awhile for me to piece it together, but you can get most of the information (as I did) from Hugh Ross's book "The Genesis Question."

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The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#6

Post by Gman » Sat May 23, 2009 9:00 pm

So let's look at the comparison.

Genesis............................Scientific data..................................

1. Heavens and Earth...........1. Big Bang
2. Earth covered in darkness...2. First atmosphere (gaseous silica)
3. Light...........................3. Solar winds exposes the land to light
4. Water vapor (clouds)........4. Second atmosphere (water vapor, carbon dioxide)
5. Dry land appears.............5. Pangea (the first continents)
6. Plant life......................6. Plant life (early cambrian)
7. Sun, moon, stars visible.....7. Third atmosphere (ozone layer)
8. Marine life....................8. Marine life
9. Animals........................9. Animals (cambrian explosion)
10. Humans.....................10. Humans

So what are the chances of the Genesis writer getting this order correct on the first try if he picked random numbers 1 to 10 out of a hat? The first try would be 1 in 3,628,800. Not a very good chance...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#7

Post by Rich » Mon May 25, 2009 8:33 pm

Gman,

Very nice. Well done.

Rich

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#8

Post by Gman » Tue May 26, 2009 10:15 pm

Thanks, (although I can't take all the credit here).

I found this evolutionary tree of life to be particularly interesting to the Biblical creation model...

1. Plants
2. Fish
3. Animals
4. Humans
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TreeOfLife.jpg
Tree of life
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The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#9

Post by cslewislover » Tue May 26, 2009 10:28 pm

That chart looks great, but I can't see it all even with my screen full size. I had looked at it in a graphics editing program, and it doesn't show up as big there. So I don't know about it . . . :econfused:
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#10

Post by Gman » Tue May 26, 2009 10:31 pm

cslewislover wrote:That chart looks great, but I can't see it all even with my screen full size. I had looked at it in a graphics editing program, and it doesn't show up as big there. So I don't know about it . . . :econfused:
Try it here C.S.... http://www.tellapallet.com/tree_of_life.htm
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#11

Post by ElShamah » Wed May 27, 2009 8:46 am

So how many years ago, God created probably mankind ?
And how can be explained, that dinos extinct ?
And when would the flood have happened ? Was the flood the cause of the extinction of the Dinossaurs ?

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#12

Post by cslewislover » Wed May 27, 2009 8:52 am

Gman wrote:
cslewislover wrote:That chart looks great, but I can't see it all even with my screen full size. I had looked at it in a graphics editing program, and it doesn't show up as big there. So I don't know about it . . . :econfused:
Try it here C.S.... http://www.tellapallet.com/tree_of_life.htm
Thanks, G, I can see it all there. :)
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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#13

Post by Gman » Wed May 27, 2009 12:01 pm

ElShamah wrote:So how many years ago, God created probably mankind ?
About 50,000 years ago (rough estimate)..
ElShamah wrote:And how can be explained, that dinos extinct ?
Dinos became extinct probably due to meteor showers that impacted the earth about 65.5 million years ago.
ElShamah wrote:And when would the flood have happened ? Was the flood the cause of the extinction of the Dinossaurs ?
Noah's flood? Hard to tell when it happened, perhaps 40,000 BC, others say between 4500BC to 3100 BC. If the flood was a local flood then no it would not have caused the max extinction of the dinosaurs.

More about that here...
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... flood.html
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#14

Post by Gman » Wed May 27, 2009 12:12 pm

Actually, Rich has also presented this day age order here too.. I just found it. ;)

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html


DAY 1

Most people read the Genesis creation account without using the scientific method and, therefore, make assumptions that are not supported by the text. For example, the first rule of the scientific method is to establish the initial conditions, or the frame of reference. Genesis 1:2 clearly states that the frame of reference is "the surface of the waters" of the earth. Most people have made the mistake of assuming the frame of reference of Genesis 1 is heaven or somewhere above the earth.

What does the text specifically say? The heavens (universe, solar system, sun, earth, etc.) were already created before the first "day" (Genesis 1:1, ~16 x 109 years ago) (3). In other verses, the Bible says that the earth is controlled by the heavens, refuting geocentrism (4). In Genesis 1:2, God was "hovering or brooding" over the seas of the newly formed earth (4.4-3.8 x 109 years ago, 5). We know from science this is where the first unicellular life forms first appeared (6). The Hebrew word, rachaph, translated as "hovering or brooding" is used only twice in the Old Testament. The second reference is to an eagle caring for its young (7). Therefore, it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1:2 And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Both science and the Bible (8) have told us that at the earth's creation, it was covered with a dense layer of clouds and gases which would have made it dark at its surface. Genesis 1:2 says, "darkness was over the surface of the deep." Next, God removed much of the cloud cover, when He stated, "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3) This was the light of the Sun (already created) which now "separated light from darkness" (Genesis 1:4). It is very clear from the text that the sun had already been created and the earth was rotating on its axis, since there was light (day) and darkness (night) (Genesis 1:5).

1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

1:4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

1:5 And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

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DAY 2

Genesis 1:6-10 describe the initiation of a stable water cycle (9) and formation of continents (10) through tectonic activity (~2.7 x 109 years ago) (11).

1:6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
1:7 And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
1:8 And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

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DAY 3

Plant life was created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13, ~1.0 x 109 years ago). These verses are probably the strongest argument for the day-age interpretation. The verse says quite clearly that the earth sprouted (or brought forth) plants and fruit trees bearing fruit. The process described is clearly similar to what we see today. Fruit trees take years to bear fruit, testifying that the third day was at least several years long, and could not possibly be just 24 hours.

1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

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DAY 4

Next the translucent cloud layer was removed so that the sun, moon and stars shown through. Notice the unusual construction in Genesis 1:14 which states, "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;'" "Let there be" is an unusual way to describe de novo creation (see also verse 1:3). I believe that at this point God removed the translucent cloud cover from the planet to allow the stars, moon, and Sun to be seen from the surface of the earth (the frame of reference of all Genesis 1). The text then reiterates what God had already done in Genesis 1:1 regarding the creation of the sun, moon, and stars. The time frame describes events over days, seasons, and years - obviously more than 24 hours long.

1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;
1:15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth ";and it was so.
1:16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.
1:17 And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
1:18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

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DAY 5

Whales (13) (~50 x 106 years ago), Birds (12) (~70 x 106 years ago), and sea mammals ("swarms of living creatures," where "creatures" is the Hebrew word nephesh, referring to soulish animals - those that can form relationships with humans) were created on the "fifth" day (Genesis 1:20-21), which would correspond to the end of the Cretaceous period/beginning of the Tertiary.
The fifth day describes a period of time longer than 24 hours as swarms of living creatures are multiplying in the sea.

1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."
1:21 And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

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DAY 6

On the sixth day God created the "beasts of the earth" (in Genesis 1:25 the Hebrew word is chayyah, which is best translated as "wild animal," usually referring to carnivorous mammals (14) (the extinct families Miacidae and Viverravidae, appeared ~50 x 106 years ago or current families Canidae, Felidae, Mustelidae, and Viverridae appeared ~30 x 106 years ago ) and the cattle (the Hebrew word is behemah, from which we get the word behemoth, the artiodactyls (large grazing mammals) appeared ~15 x 106 years ago) and the rodents (mammals that "creep on the ground"). Therefore, the wild and domesticated mammals and rodents were created on the sixth day.

1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

The last creation of God was mankind, who was also created at the end of the sixth day. What about humans and three million year old fossil remains of bipedal An order of mammals including man, apes, monkeys, etc., often characterized by large brains and flexible hands and feet.primates? I believe in a literal Adam and Eve, although I do not believe they lived millions of years ago. The Bible indicates that Adam and Eve had a relationship with God (Genesis 2-3) and the text says that unique among all the animals, humans are endowed with a spirit (Hebrew, ruach, Greek, pneuma), by which they are able to communicate with and love God. Scientists have found no evidence of religious artifacts before about 25,000 to 50,000 years ago (15), which is the point at which I propose God created Adam and Eve. The Bible states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (16). A biblical generation, described as being 40 years, would represent at least 40,000 years of human existence. However, since the first dozen or more generations were nearly 1,000 years, this would make humans nearly 50,000 years old, which agrees very well with dates from paleontology and molecular biology (see Descent of Mankind Theory: Disproved by Molecular Biology). Therefore, I believe that bipedal An order of mammals including man, apes, monkeys, etc., often characterized by large brains and flexible hands and feet.primates that existed before Adam and Eve, were just part of the animal kingdom, and were not endowed with the characteristics that make humans distinct from animals.

1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

1:27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: The scientific proof for Genesis

#15

Post by BavarianWheels » Wed May 27, 2009 1:27 pm

Interesting how we read God's word saying the sun, moon, and stars were made on the 4th day, but we "reason" that they were already there prior to the 1st... For whom were the "clouds and gases" removed on the 4th day to reveal the already created sun, etc? Clearly there was light and so the light from the newly created sun wouldn't have been anything new for the plant life.
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