Pope Warns of Seductive Science

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Canuckster1127
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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#61

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:56 am

frankbaginski wrote:I think the Pope spoke correctly. There is a danger to faith if science trys to take over the role of faith. As I said before when someone in science extends to the unknown and declares that science will know all then the line has been crossed. Also when some data is interpreted and that interpretation is taught as fact then they have crossed the line. This is happening all around us. Not a day goes by that I see this without looking for it.

I am not an enemy of science, I am an enemy of the use of science for political and worldview reasons. The worldview being the worst of the two. And yes, I do paint with a wide brush but the silence of the group allows me too. The path to salvation is narrow and few will find it. So using a wide brush hits mostly those on the wrong path. I think the people on the right path will not mind me grouping science with the abuse. I rather step on a few toes and save someone, we will all cry over missed opportunities when we leave here. 20/20 hindsight will not save anyone.
You don't see any irony with making the comment that the silence of the group allows you to, when you are saying it on a board hosted by a Christian who is a scientist?

Are you not aware of the professional groups of scientists that exist and who are making statements in this regard?

The group is not as silent as you appear to think.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#62

Post by frankbaginski » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:37 pm

Canuckster1127 ,

I see no problems with the way I present an idea on this board. People speak in broad terms all of the time. To be PC and always watch every word and never say anything that might offend is to place chains on yourself. This I will not do. There of course are many scriptural examples of this same thing. Why are you trying to tell me what I can and cannot say and who I can talk to and who I can't talk too. I will say and do what I feel is right.

Who made you the guardian of what can be said? If I step on some of your scientific concepts, to bad. Science is supposed to be open for debate. If you are saying some things can't be talked about you really need to step back and examine your position.

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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#63

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:24 pm

frankbaginski wrote:Canuckster1127 ,

I see no problems with the way I present an idea on this board. People speak in broad terms all of the time. To be PC and always watch every word and never say anything that might offend is to place chains on yourself. This I will not do. There of course are many scriptural examples of this same thing. Why are you trying to tell me what I can and cannot say and who I can talk to and who I can't talk too. I will say and do what I feel is right.

Who made you the guardian of what can be said? If I step on some of your scientific concepts, to bad. Science is supposed to be open for debate. If you are saying some things can't be talked about you really need to step back and examine your position.
As you wish Frank.

You are welcome to say what you wish within the boundaries of this board's purpose and discussion guidelines. I and others are free to challenge you as we see fit as well.

I simply pointed out that your comments with regard to the scientific community are refuted ironically by the fact that you are on a website hosted by a Christian who is a scientist.

As I have time, I will put up additional information relating to Christian organizations in the area of science that are in direct contradiction to some of your earlier statements.

Best Regards,

Bart
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#64

Post by Man from the Neptune » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:50 pm

frankbaginski wrote:I think the Pope spoke correctly. There is a danger to faith if science trys to take over the role of faith. As I said before when someone in science extends to the unknown and declares that science will know all then the line has been crossed. Also when some data is interpreted and that interpretation is taught as fact then they have crossed the line. This is happening all around us. Not a day goes by that I see this without looking for it.

I am not an enemy of science, I am an enemy of the use of science for political and worldview reasons. The worldview being the worst of the two. And yes, I do paint with a wide brush but the silence of the group allows me too. The path to salvation is narrow and few will find it. So using a wide brush hits mostly those on the wrong path. I think the people on the right path will not mind me grouping science with the abuse. I rather step on a few toes and save someone, we will all cry over missed opportunities when we leave here. 20/20 hindsight will not save anyone.
I would just like to note that Christian Intelligent Design goes a step beyond the perscribed boundaries in science, it says there is a supernatural being which brought the universe into existence. Essentially we claim to have evidence of a higher being and not just a higher being but a higher reality. If science cannot go beyond the natural realm which gives natural explanations then how is this site useful to science or the Christian faith?

I am not saying that science should decide which morality and ethics. Neither am I saying science will know everything I am simply saying that science has more application then some people give it credit for.

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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#65

Post by Byblos » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:03 pm

frankbaginski wrote:Canuckster1127 ,

I see no problems with the way I present an idea on this board. People speak in broad terms all of the time. To be PC and always watch every word and never say anything that might offend is to place chains on yourself. This I will not do. There of course are many scriptural examples of this same thing. Why are you trying to tell me what I can and cannot say and who I can talk to and who I can't talk too. I will say and do what I feel is right.

Who made you the guardian of what can be said? If I step on some of your scientific concepts, to bad. Science is supposed to be open for debate. If you are saying some things can't be talked about you really need to step back and examine your position.
Bart was a lot more civil in his response than I will be, I think partly due to his engaging you in the discussion and so as not to seem partial as a moderator, and I suspect partly due to his good nature. I am/have neither. Like it or not, this board is not a democracy. We have a set of rules and guidelines that clearly stipulate what a member's conduct should be like. While moderators have some leeway they can exercise as they see fit, they also have the luxury of banning any member at will (although we do try to exercise some restraint). We are in no way trying to restrict or curtail ideas and opinions, as long as those ideas and opinions are presented in a respectful manner, and as long as they do not cross the proverbial thin line defined by the discussion guidelines. If you can stick to that Frank, you are most welcome to stay. If not, then this board is not for you, please move on.

Byblos,
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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#66

Post by Gman » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:44 pm

Frank,

I think part of the problem here is that you seem to be equating anyone that believes in evolution is succumbing to the doctrines of men and are therefore misguided. At least this is what I gather... What we are trying to point out here is that science and the Bible (or the belief in God) do not interfere with each other even if you believe in evolution. The Bible, does not need to be rewritten to make this all fit. It is important that you understand this principle if you wish to further engage in the subject, otherwise, I don't think we are going anywhere here just simply regurgitating what we've stated before. I hope you can understand this...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: Pope Warns of Seductive Science

#67

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:42 pm

Just to clarify, Frank. I've not suggested that you tone down your rhetoric to adhere to Board Standards. I'm simply arguing as a participant in the conversation and pointing out what I believe to be a misuse of terms in many of your points, equating all science with humanism or atheism. You may feel your words in that manner are appropriate, but I believe them to be exagerrated and part of the problem of what I observe and react to in general with Young Earth Creationism.

You may not claim to be a Young Earth Creationist but frankly (no pun intended) I have to comment that when you quack like a duck, and walk like a duck, your claim to the contrary doesn't mean much. Of course, you may well not be a duck. The reasoning you've used however, the lack of consistency in terms and the lack of sources to support your positions mkaes me suspect you are a duck in that regard, or at least a man in a trenchcoat trying to sell us a duck. :ebiggrin:

YEC supporters are welcome here so that is not the issue. You can't expect on an OEC hosted board however, not to be challenged on it.

In any event, my comments to you were not as a moderator. I'm happy to interact with you and whether we agree or disagree on many things in this specific area, I welcome all who know Christ and Savior and are willing to discuss these issues. If you believe we have little in common in that regard, that is up to you.

Blessings,

Bart
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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