Stars

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
hetfield
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Stars

#1

Post by hetfield » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:21 pm

Ok so how old is the earth through the christian's eyes? My Christian Science book says 10,000 to 15,000 years. Yet evolution states much more than this, obviously. Stars are millions of Light Years away. So therefore shouldn't the earth be millions of years old in order for the light to travel here? Light does travel at a certain rate, just as much as sound does, I'm sure that it didn't change after the fall, and if so then it's giving a negative aspect to God, and his creation, not positive at all.

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Re: Stars

#2

Post by Gman » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:04 am

hetfield wrote:Ok so how old is the earth through the christian's eyes? My Christian Science book says 10,000 to 15,000 years. Yet evolution states much more than this, obviously. Stars are millions of Light Years away. So therefore shouldn't the earth be millions of years old in order for the light to travel here? Light does travel at a certain rate, just as much as sound does, I'm sure that it didn't change after the fall, and if so then it's giving a negative aspect to God, and his creation, not positive at all.
I believe the earth to be about 4.6 billion years. This would also factor in the speed of light which hasn't changed since the fall... In no way does this give a negative aspect to God.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/ageofearth.html

Or speed of light...

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/speedlight.html
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

hetfield
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Re: Stars

#3

Post by hetfield » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:03 am

Gman wrote:
hetfield wrote:Ok so how old is the earth through the christian's eyes? My Christian Science book says 10,000 to 15,000 years. Yet evolution states much more than this, obviously. Stars are millions of Light Years away. So therefore shouldn't the earth be millions of years old in order for the light to travel here? Light does travel at a certain rate, just as much as sound does, I'm sure that it didn't change after the fall, and if so then it's giving a negative aspect to God, and his creation, not positive at all.
I believe the earth to be about 4.6 billion years. This would also factor in the speed of light which hasn't changed since the fall... In no way does this give a negative aspect to God.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/ageofearth.html

Or speed of light...

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/speedlight.html
but doesn't this go against the grain of genesis?

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Re: Stars

#4

Post by bizzt » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:54 am

hetfield wrote:
Gman wrote:
hetfield wrote:Ok so how old is the earth through the christian's eyes? My Christian Science book says 10,000 to 15,000 years. Yet evolution states much more than this, obviously. Stars are millions of Light Years away. So therefore shouldn't the earth be millions of years old in order for the light to travel here? Light does travel at a certain rate, just as much as sound does, I'm sure that it didn't change after the fall, and if so then it's giving a negative aspect to God, and his creation, not positive at all.
I believe the earth to be about 4.6 billion years. This would also factor in the speed of light which hasn't changed since the fall... In no way does this give a negative aspect to God.

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/ageofearth.html

Or speed of light...

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/speedlight.html
but doesn't this go against the grain of genesis?
Read the links and you will notice that it does not :)

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#5

Post by John T » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:10 am

bizzt wrote:
Read the links and you will notice that it does not


I have read the links and am not entirely convinced.

John

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#6

Post by hetfield » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:39 am

I just read the links. OK so I still don't get it, God created the earth in 6 days, yet the earth has been here over millions of years (in accordance to meet with light). Since God created man then has man been here for millions of years? I thought the multi million/ multi billion year theory would go against Scripture, or so my school try to convince me. Explain it to me with your own words.
"The greatest feeling is looking at something, and wondering how it works-"Albert Einstien.

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#7

Post by Turgonian » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:16 pm

I'm not sure if OEC goes against Scripture, though I still adhere to YEC (Young Earth Creationism), mainly out of nostalgia. ;) I haven't done extensive research.
However, people here have convinced me that OEC (O = Old) is biblically defensible.
It means the earth wasn't created in 6 days. However, humans in any case were created separately. I'm not sure how long ago (I'd say no more than 10,000 years, although Puritan Lad extends it to 60,000 years), but God created humans with a soul. They didn't evolve from apes.

If you are interested what YECs offer as a solution to the 'far stars' problem, while still maintaining that God doesn't deceive anyone even in Nature, see:

How can we see distant stars in a young universe?

Another article claiming that the host of stars actually points toward YEC:

Exploding stars point to a young universe
The Bible says they were "willingly ignorant". In the Greek, this means "be dumb on purpose". (Kent Hovind)

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#8

Post by hetfield » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:55 pm

Turgonian wrote:I'm not sure if OEC goes against Scripture, though I still adhere to YEC (Young Earth Creationism), mainly out of nostalgia. ;) I haven't done extensive research.
However, people here have convinced me that OEC (O = Old) is biblically defensible.
It means the earth wasn't created in 6 days. However, humans in any case were created separately. I'm not sure how long ago (I'd say no more than 10,000 years, although Puritan Lad extends it to 60,000 years), but God created humans with a soul. They didn't evolve from apes.

If you are interested what YECs offer as a solution to the 'far stars' problem, while still maintaining that God doesn't deceive anyone even in Nature, see:

How can we see distant stars in a young universe?

Another article claiming that the host of stars actually points toward YEC:

Exploding stars point to a young universe
ok so the OEC goes against scripture because of the 6 days, and obviously the other seems to not, i'm at a loss of words, break both theories down, and is there another website other than those 2 which can explain this theory
"The greatest feeling is looking at something, and wondering how it works-"Albert Einstien.

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#9

Post by faithinware » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:50 am

Why is this so difficult. It seems that we struggle I mean really struggle to try and fit our world view with scripture, when we know that scripture didn't know about cellphones, airplanes, Microwave ovens, speed of light, Gravity, Electrons, the power of the atom, the silicon chip, the microprocessor, the lcd monitor, the radio transmissions, fiber optics, optical disk -- should I go on?

Why struggle to fit our universe with what scripture has to say? Why not just have Faith and let it go at that? Do we actually think that if it doesn't fit somehow that it gives us a reason to stop believing?

My grandfather was a wondrous Doctor, he was a Faithful Methodist believer. And on top of it, he still believed in science and all that it involves. It is because he loved truth. He believed Darwin. Something Thomas Huxley said about Darwin: "Why didn't we think of this before?"

So why didn't we think of it before? Were we that arrogant back then?

It is a wondrous universe, much bigger than religious men in the past previously thought. I mean back then, they thought the world had corners.

Consider the awe that is our universe, and be grateful.

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#10

Post by Turgonian » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:05 am

The difference being, the universe existed 3000 years ago. 'Cellphones, airplanes, Microwave ovens, speed of light, Gravity, Electrons, the power of the atom, the silicon chip, the microprocessor, the lcd monitor, the radio transmissions, fiber optics, optical disk' did not, and therefore the Bible has nothing to say about them.
The Bible says they were "willingly ignorant". In the Greek, this means "be dumb on purpose". (Kent Hovind)

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#11

Post by hetfield » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:58 am

faithinware wrote:Why is this so difficult. It seems that we struggle I mean really struggle to try and fit our world view with scripture, when we know that scripture didn't know about cellphones, airplanes, Microwave ovens, speed of light, Gravity, Electrons, the power of the atom, the silicon chip, the microprocessor, the lcd monitor, the radio transmissions, fiber optics, optical disk -- should I go on?

Why struggle to fit our universe with what scripture has to say? Why not just have Faith and let it go at that? Do we actually think that if it doesn't fit somehow that it gives us a reason to stop believing?

My grandfather was a wondrous Doctor, he was a Faithful Methodist believer. And on top of it, he still believed in science and all that it involves. It is because he loved truth. He believed Darwin. Something Thomas Huxley said about Darwin: "Why didn't we think of this before?"

So why didn't we think of it before? Were we that arrogant back then?

It is a wondrous universe, much bigger than religious men in the past previously thought. I mean back then, they thought the world had corners.

Consider the awe that is our universe, and be grateful.
well the whole corner thing is discussed on this site. evolution states that the earth wasn't created in six days, which contradicts scripture, so now scripture has to have support for everything, if your willing to admit that the philsophers of the bible and such were wrong they what is there to believe if i have no cornerstone of belief?
"The greatest feeling is looking at something, and wondering how it works-"Albert Einstien.

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#12

Post by Gman » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:17 pm

hetfield wrote:I just read the links. OK so I still don't get it, God created the earth in 6 days, yet the earth has been here over millions of years (in accordance to meet with light). Since God created man then has man been here for millions of years? I thought the multi million/ multi billion year theory would go against Scripture, or so my school try to convince me. Explain it to me with your own words.
Please explain why you are confused by the links.. I don't get it...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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#13

Post by Byblos » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:29 pm

hetfield wrote:well the whole corner thing is discussed on this site. evolution states that the earth wasn't created in six days, which contradicts scripture, so now scripture has to have support for everything, if your willing to admit that the philsophers of the bible and such were wrong they what is there to believe if i have no cornerstone of belief?


Hi Hetfield,

Have you at all looked at the many articles posted on the main page? You are aware that this very site is founded on reconciling God with science and that the two are very much compatible and no contradiction exists between scripture and science? If you haven't checked out the articles, I would advise you to do so, and while you're at it, please read the board purpose found here.

Byblos.
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Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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#14

Post by sandy_mcd » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:04 pm

Turgonian wrote:The difference being, the universe existed 3000 years ago. '...speed of light, Gravity, Electrons, the power of the atom...' did not, and therefore the Bible has nothing to say about them.
Of course these things all existed 3000 years ago, didn't they?

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#15

Post by Swamper » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:56 pm

sandy_mcd wrote:
Turgonian wrote:The difference being, the universe existed 3000 years ago. '...speed of light, Gravity, Electrons, the power of the atom...' did not, and therefore the Bible has nothing to say about them.
Of course these things all existed 3000 years ago, didn't they?
Turgy meant that people had no concept of these things 3000 years ago.

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