Was Blyth the true scientist and Darwin merely a plagiarist

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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Was Blyth the true scientist and Darwin merely a plagiarist

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1518



Note: This is no way meant as an argument against evolution. If it is taken to be, and a page is written in defense of evolution...so be it, but I'm just putting up the article and saying these few things:

1) It is interesting.
2) If true, very, very interesting.
3) Even if true, doesn't mean Darwin's not-so unoriginal idea is false.
4) Blythe needed to shave.
5) It goes to show what conclusions can be come to by people with different worldviews when looking at the same things.
6) Well we all knew Darwin wasn't God now didn't we (right?).
7) Disclaimer above is true for all parts except over the question of what natural selection can do-of course.
Edward Blyth (1860-1873)

Of course today, for biologists, Darwin is second only to God, and for many he may rank still higher.

— Michael White, 2002

1. Was Darwin a plagiarist and charlatan of limited intellect rather than the deity his followers portray him to be?

2. Was the creationist Edward Blyth the true pioneer of natural selection?

3. Was Blyth's conception of natural selection as a mechanism of preservation versus a mechanism of innovation the more accurate characterization of what natural selection really is?

I wish to remain open-minded on these issues as they deal with history, and history is difficult to reconstruct. I assert is that these hypotheses are worth exploring, though not necessarily absolute truth. However, as I studied the topic further, it became clear a cloud of suspicion regarding Darwin could not be put to rest.

I now turn to the work of a very prominent anthropologist and ecologist by the name of Loren Eiseley (1907-1977). Eiseley was the head of the Anthropology Department at University of Pennsylvania and president of the American Institute of Human Paleontology before becoming the Provost of the University of Pennsylvania. By all counts he was a first rate scholar. He published several books about Darwin: Charles Darwin, Darwin's Century, and Darwin and the Mysterious Mr. X: New Light on the Evolutionists.

Edward Blyth in Wikipedia:

Loren Eiseley, Professor of Anthropology and the History of Science at the University of Pennsylvania, spent decades tracing the origins of the ideas attributed to Darwin. In a 1979 book, he claimed that 'the leading tenets of Darwin's work—the struggle for existence, variation, natural selection and sexual selection—are all fully expressed in Blyth's paper of 1835. He also cites a number of rare words, similarities of phrasing, and the use of similar examples, which he regards as evidence of Darwin's debt to Blyth.

The above is taken from Darwin and the Mysterious Mr. X: New Light on the Evolutionists which was, curiously enough, published posthumously by Eiseley!

My hypothesis is that Edward Blyth should have been given far more credit for the theory of natural selection. Because Blyth was a creationist, he did not see natural selection as an adequate mechanism for biological innovation. He believed natural selection as primarily a means of preserving species, not primarily creating large scale biological innovations. Even though a creationist, he seemed open to some forms of evolution (as creationists do today), and it would be hard to argue that he believed in the absolute fixity of species. Blyth's position on natural selection would be consistent with many IDers and creationists today.

It was Darwin who promoted the hypothesis that natural selection could be a designer substitute, but the basic concept of natural selection is attributable to Blyth. At the end of the essay I will provide links to papers by Blyth which I believe Darwin plagiarized. Here are a few highlights however:

Blyth in 1836:

It is a general law of nature for all creatures to propagate the like of themselves: and this extends even to the most trivial minutiae, to the slightest individual peculiarities; and thus, among ourselves, we see a family likeness transmitted from generation to generation.

When two animals are matched together, each remarkable for a certain given peculiarity, no matter how trivial, there is also a decided tendency in nature for that peculiarity to increase; and if the produce of these animals be set apart, and only those in which the same peculiarity is most apparent, be selected to breed from, the next generation will possess it in a still more remarkable degree; and so on, till at length the variety I designate a breed, is formed, which may be very unlike the original type.

The examples of this class of varieties must be too obvious to need specification: many of the varieties of cattle, and, in all probability, the greater number of those of domestic pigeons, have been generally brought about in this manner. It is worthy of remark, however, that the original and typical form of an animal is in great measure kept up by the same identical means by which a true breed is produced.

The original form of a species is unquestionably better adapted to its natural habits than any modification of that form; and, as the sexual passions excite to rivalry and conflict, and the stronger must always prevail over the weaker, the latter, in a state of nature, is allowed but few opportunities of continuing its race. In a large herd of cattle, the strongest bull drives from him all the younger and weaker individuals of his own sex, and remains sole master of the herd; so that all the young which are produced must have had their origin from one which possessed the maximum of power and physical strength; and which, consequently, in the struggle for existence, was the best able to maintain his ground, and defend himself from every enemy.

The concepts of natural selection and even sexual selection are laid out plainly, even the concept of adaptation and the struggle for existence!

Here is Blyth in 1836 again:

The true physiological system is evidently one of irregular and indefinite radiation, and of reiterate divergence and ramification from a varying number of successively subordinate typical plans; often modified in the extremes, till the general aspect has become entirely changed, but still retaining, to the very ultimate limits, certain fixed and constant distinctive characters, by which the true affinities of species may be always known; the modifications of each successive type being always in direct relation to particular localities, or to peculiar modes of procuring sustenance; in short, to the particular circumstances under which a species was appointed to exist in the locality which it indigenously inhabits, where alone its presence forms part of the grand system of the universe, and tends to preserve the balance of organic being, and, removed whence (as is somewhere well remarked by Mudie), a plant or animal is little else than a “disjointed fragment.”

This is astonishing! Blyth offers the concept of environments creating adaptive radiations!

Then Blyth in 1837:

A variety of important considerations here crowd upon the mind; foremost of which is the inquiry, that, as man, by removing species from their appropriate haunts, superinduces changes on their physical constitution and adaptations, to what extent may not the same take place in wild nature, so that, in a few generations, distinctive characters may be acquired, such as are recognised as indicative of specific diversity? It is a positive fact, for example, that the nestling plumage of larks, hatched in a red gravelly locality, is of a paler and more rufous tint than in those bred upon a dark soil.17 May not, then, a large proportion of what are considered species have descended from a common parentage?

Is this a stretch? Note what Ernst Mayr had to say:

The Missing Link

Eiseley (1959) vigorously promoted the thesis that Edward Blyth had established the theory of evolution by natural selection in 1835 and that Darwin surely had read his paper and quite likely had derived a major inspiration from it without ever mentioning this in his writings … Darwin quite likely had read Blyth's paper but paid no further attention to it since it was antievolutionary in spirit and not different from the writings of other natural theologians in its general thesis

In fact what is a bit incriminating is Darwin owned copies of Blyth's work, and that these copies have Darwin's notes in the margin. Reading Blyth, it really is hard to see that Darwin made any innovation except the illogical conclusion that natural selection can create large scale biological complexity and design. As Allen Orr said, “selection does not trade in the currency of design”.

Something interesting is also apparent: there were a lot of naturalists who doubted the permanence of species, and Blyth was among them. Nevertheless, Darwin wrote in 1876, contrary to the truth:

I never happened to come across a single [naturalist] who seemed to doubt about the permanence of species …

Darwin effectively claims that he was singularly exceptional in his belief that species could be transformed by the environment. This claim is clearly untrue! The suspicion then arises whether Darwin was lying. In fact, Professor George Simpson acknowledges the appearance of lying with a bit of disbelief (the missing link):

These are extraordinary statements. They cannot literally be true, yet Darwin cannot be consciously lying, and he may therefore be judged unconsciously misleading, naive, forgetful, or all three.

Thus, Darwin's behavior was so obviously suspicious to some that his admirers had to make excuses to explain away the appearance of lying.

The discussion of this topic will obviously be more than I have space for here, and I welcome input in the comments section if there are any relevant data points. But I close with some thoughts regarding Darwin's genius (or lack thereof) or Darwin's integrity (or lack thereof):

Professor C.D. Darlington writes The Mystery Begins

[Darwin] was able to put across his ideas not so much because of his scientific integrity, but because of his opportunism, his equivocation and his lack of historical sense. Though his admirers will not like to believe it, he accomplished his revolution by personal weakness and strategic talent more than by scientific virtue.

Thomas Henry Huxley Darwiniana Obituary:

Shrewsbury School could find nothing but dull mediocrity in Charles Darwin. The mind that found satisfaction in knowledge, but very little in mere learning; that could appreciate literature, but had no particular aptitude for grammatical exercises; appeared to the “strictly classical” pedagogue to be no mind at all. As a matter of fact, Darwin's school education left him ignorant of almost all the things which it would have been well for him to know, and untrained in all the things it would have been useful for him to be able to do, in after life.

Thus, starved and stunted on the intellectual side, it is not surprising that Charles Darwin's energies were directed towards athletic amusements and sport, to such an extent, that even his kind and sagacious father could be exasperated into telling him that “he cared for nothing but shooting, dogs, and rat-catching.”

Sir Gavin de Beer:

The boy [Darwin] developed very slowly: he was given, when small, to inventing gratuitous fibs and to daydreaming

and

Lies-and the thrills derived from lies-were for him indistinguishable from the delights of natural history or the joy of finding a long-sought specimen.

John and Mary Gribben:

… he devised a plan so cunning that even Machiavelli would have been proud of it. During 1845, Darwin worked on a second edition of his successful journal of the Beagle voyage, and added new material to the descriptions of the living things he had seen in South America. These new passages look innocuous enough in themselves. But as Howard Gruber pointed out in his book Darwin on Man (Wildwood House, London, 1974), if you compare the first and second editions … you can locate all the new material … string it together to make a coherent 'ghost essay' which conveys almost all of Darwin's thinking about evolution [in 1845]. It is quite clear that this material must have been written as that coherent essay, then carefully chopped up and inserted into the journal.

The whole case of Darwin's plagiarism was laid out rather tediously in Charles Darwin — The Truth? Interestingly the essay mentions Brian Goodwin and our very own John Davison here.

I hope this essay inspire some to revisit these important issues. If the hypothesis inspired by Eiseley is true, and if natural selection is an inadequate explanation for biological design, and if it turns out that Darwin was little more than a plagiarizing opportunist making illogical extrapolations of Blyth, then Blyth will be the one history smiles on, and Darwin will be the one history despises.
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Re: Was Blyth the true scientist and Darwin merely a plagiar

Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:5) It goes to show what conclusions can be come to by people with different worldviews when looking at the same things.
Of course today, for biologists, Darwin is second only to God, and for many he may rank still higher.
As far as the content, I have no idea. It is not unusual for different scientists to get the same idea around the same time, often unaware of one another's work. As knowledge increases, there is enough information to draw some conclusion, which more than one person can do independently. Sometimes only one gets historical credit, sometimes credit is shared, sometimes credit is shared at a later date. And scientists often have immense egos and get in arguments with one another, Newton e.g.

I do see what you mean about different worldviews affecting opinions. The above was obviously written by someone whose worldview is unaware that scientists don't worship humans. It is "evolution" not "Darwinism", "Hamiltonian" not "Hamiltonism".
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

I do see what you mean about different worldviews affecting opinions.
Now you're just making things up...I never said that.
The above was obviously written by someone whose worldview is unaware that scientists don't worship humans.
Do you believe in hyperboles?
It is "evolution" not "Darwinism"
Why do you say that.
The real core of Darwinism is the theory of natural selection. This theory is so important for the Darwinian because it permits the explanation of adaptation, the 'design' of the natural theologian, by natural means, instead of by divine intervention. (p. 138 Ernst Mayr (Foreword to M. Ruse, Darwinism Defended, Reading, Mass. Addison-Wesley, 1982, pp. xi-xii))
… , it is simply not true that Darwinism works with any substrate, no matter what. Indeed Darwinism can't even explain old-fashioned *biological* evolution if the hereditary substrate doesn't behave just right. Evolution would quickly grind to a halt, for instance, if inheritance were blending, not particulate. With blending inheritance, the genetic material from two parents seamlessly blends together like different colored paints. With particulate Mendelian inheritance, genes from Mom and Dad remain forever distinct in Junior. This substrate problem was so acute that turn-ofthe-century biologists — all fans of blending inheritance — concluded that Darwinism just can't work. ….” (Orr H.A., “Dennett's Strange Idea: Natural Selection: Science of Everything, Universal Acid, Cure for the Common Cold … . Review of “Darwin's Dangerous Idea,” by Daniel C. Dennett, Simon and Schuster. Boston Review, Vol. 21., No. 3., Summer 1996.)
Darwinists use the term, why can't I.
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Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
I do see what you mean about different worldviews affecting opinions.
Now you're just making things up...I never said that.
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:I'm just ... saying these few things:
5) It goes to show what conclusions can be come to by people with different worldviews when looking at the same things.
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Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Darwinists use the term, why can't I.
Scientists are often sloppy with word usage. It is something they can usually get away with; since scientists in the same field have similar backgrounds they tend to not get confused. A biologist may say that something is "designed" but does not mean "ID". A physicist may talk about "string theory" but here "theory" does not mean that string theory is accepted the way that people use "theory" in the "theory of gravity".
For the same reason, hyperbole should be used sparingly here. What one writer may consider hyperbolic may be accepted by a reader with different ideas as just another typical statement.
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

conclusion
-noun
5. a reasoned deduction or inference.
6. Logic. a proposition concluded or inferred from the premises of an argument.

opinion
-noun
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Not exactly the same thing.

How exactly is my use of the term Darwinism instead of evolution incorrect? That's what I was aiming at getting.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

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You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
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Post by David Blacklock »

>>How exactly is my use of the term Darwinism instead of evolution incorrect?<<

I wouldn't call it completely incorrect - just not the most current terminology.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/modern-synthesis.html

The thing is, Darwin didn't know about genetics. He figured out common descent from unlike forms and he figured out that natural selection worked on variation, but he didn't have the mechanism. This bothered him considerably. Mendel, a scientist/monk had already published the answer in an obscure journal. Darwin had it amongst his stash of periodicals, but must have not read it. This item remained obscure until right after the turn of the cenury.

When genetics got added, the term was neo-darwinism. In 1942, the new findings were summarized in a book by Julian Huxley and the updated term was Modern Synthesis. There have been so many new findings in the last 30 years, a couple more updated names have been suggested. The most likely candidate to stick at this time is "evo-devo," reflecting significant research in embryonic development and its direction by DNA.
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Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:conclusion
5. a reasoned deduction or inference.
6. Logic. a proposition concluded or inferred from the premises of an argument.
opinion
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
Not exactly the same thing.
You've got me there Kmart. There is definitely a difference in connotation. Sometimes when I write something like that, I intend the difference; here it was just an accident. I apologize for the insult.

Here is an example of how some people intentionally use the difference [bold added]:
http://www.scafo.org/library/140105.html wrote:Opinion vs. Conclusion

Most of us, having successfully completed our investigation, are content to leave the argument to the attorneys. Arguing is what they are trained for. They take the witness's statements apart and manipulate those things which can be manipulated. They usually know absolutely nothing about any particular science. They don't sit there with you and go over the comparison protocol to make sure that you didn't miss something.

Attorneys twist your words, or substitute a synonym which is easier to work with, in an attempt to minimize the impact of your testimony. Semantics, verbal trickery, is all they have going for them. You need to choose your words well and not allow substitution (“or in other words _ _ _” ).

Standard College Dictionary:

o--pin--ion, n. 1. A conclusion or judgement held with confidence, but falling short of positive knowledge. 2. An estimation or judgement given more or less formally by an expert or experts.

con--clu--sion, n. 4. A judgement or opinion obtained by reasoning; inference; deduction.

Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO FORM AN OPINION?

(Multiple choice)

A. #1 YES

A. #2 AFTER EXAMINING AND COMPARING BOTH THE LATENT PRINT AND THE INKED PRINT EXEMPLAR, I WAS ABLE TO REACH A CONCLUSION.

(With A. #2, the only possible next question is)

Q. AND WHAT WAS THAT CONCLUSION?

Most jurors are not trained in the art of debate, or common courtroom jargon, and therefore must rely on their individual perception of the meaning of words. They are putty in the hands of a semi--skilled defense attorney.

Answer #1 can lead to arguments like “Well, that's just your opinion.” “Everybody has a right to their own opinion, but that doesn't make it so!” “Don't listen to him, he has an opinion about everything.” “He's so opinionated.”

The word OPINION by itself has a built--in doubt. Avoid it like the plague.

If your neighborhood prosecutor use the “O” word you might suggest CONCLUSION as the word you are most comfortable with.

Never give a defense attorney an easy edge — make him work for it.

Tom Jones
Kern County Sheriff Department

(Editor--—It's my opinion, no--my conclusion, that Tom should start writing training manuals.)
A couple of other tips. Instead of writing you didn't say "that", write you said "conclusion not opinion". It would make a response more appropriate. Also if you are going to quote sources, please supply a reference.

Although there is a substantial difference in connotation, there is considerable overlap in denotation, as illustrated by the above example and your dictionary entries:
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary wrote:o•pin•ion
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.
4. Law.the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case. ...

con•clu•sion
2. the last main division of a discourse, usually containing a summing up of the points and a statement of opinion or decisions reached.
...
5. a reasoned deduction or inference.
6. Logic.a proposition concluded or inferred from the premises of an argument.
...
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease
One would hope that a medical or legal opinion was the conclusion of examining the evidence. Likewise all scientific conclusions are without certainty as science is not logic.
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back on topic

Post by sandy_mcd »

Googling blyth and darwin yields:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/precursors/precursnatsel.html wrote:Theories not unlike natural selection have been around for a while. Here, courtesy of Cosma Shalizi, is Aristotle's version, based on Empedocles' older view ...

In the "Historical Sketch" Darwin admitted that he, and Richard Owen who claimed priority after the Origin was published (as was his wont[2]), had been pre-empted by two writers, Patrick Matthew in 1831, and William Charles Wells in 1813, published in 1818[3]. Darwin had read neither, as Wells' views were solely applied to human races, and Matthew's were presented in an appendix to a work on naval timber. Neither author developed their views further, and Darwin clearly deserves credit for the global applicability of selection as a mechanism of evolution. Darwin developed his mechanism from an analogy with the processes of selection by breeders for traits they considered desirable, and tied it in which the process he read in Malthus so that "it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved, and unfavourable ones would be destroyed. The result of this would be the formation of new species. Here, then, I had at last got a theory by which to work ..."[4]. While Matthew was an evolutionist of the social radical variety, he did not present selection as a mechanism of evolution.

Edward Blyth had also published a natural selection theory in 1837, but he argued against transmutation of species because if it occurred it would destroy species' integrity: "we should seek in vain for those constant and invariable distinctions which are found to obtain"[5]. As de Beer says, it is unlikely that Darwin was indebted to him if his views were so opposed to Darwin's[6]. Darwin had read Blyth, but not until after his own formulation, and Blyth later became a valued and constant correspondent of Darwin's. If he felt that Darwin had, as Eiseley claimed, plagiarised natural selection from him, he would not have become such a strong friend and supporter of Darwinian evolution. Interestingly, Blyth was one of the authors who Darwin mentioned to Wallace when responding to his 1855 paper.

Other candidates include Prichard, Lawrence and Naudin, but their statements are vague and undeveloped[7]. ...

In sum, while there were precursors, it can be fairly concluded that Darwin was not either plagiarising or directly influenced by anyone who had proposed natural selection as an explanation of adaptation in living organisms. And Wallace's discovery was truly independent, though based on many of the same influences, and he deserves the title co-discoverer, although for the rest of his life he cheerfully gave priority and credit to Darwin, even after the latter's death.
More details in footnote 6.
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Post by David Blacklock »

Science is littered with ideas that were simply waiting for someone to credit. The idea of descent from common ancestors had been milling around for a long time - maybe for many centuries. Oftimes the credit goes to the guy who finally puts it all together. Blythe omitted the key parts that would soon have come to light with or without Darwin.

This phenomenon is well-known in science and is not new. Isaac Newton said it most memorably - "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" - in a letter to fellow scientist Robert Hooke.
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

As this is history, I think we shouldn't live in the past.

Anyways, I did provide a reference-the link was at the top of the page-or are you referring to something else?

And thanks for bringing good old talk origins into it...That way I can do this and be on subject
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He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

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You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
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Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:And thanks for bringing good old talk origins into it...That way I can do this and be on subject ...
Anyways, I did provide a reference-the link was at the top of the page-or are you referring to something else?
1) The original post posits "Was Blyth the true scientist and Darwin merely a plagiarist". A quick Google finds another reference which espouses a different opinion. Neither the Wikipedia article nor the blog post address the issues raised in the TO article, which was written Feb 2003, almost a year before the original (and since updated) Wikipedia article. Has any supporter of Blyth ever confronted the issues raised in TO?
2) If Kmart had referenced which dictionary he used, it would have been easier to see if he picked definitions which supported his position and ignored ones which may have disagreed.
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

Oh the dictionary reference... http://dictionary.reference.com/

And I don't trust wikipedia either.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011259.php
A trip to the nuthouse

A few days ago you could have checked my biography at Wikipedia and found this:

Most have discredited Mr. Spencer's views on Islam due to oft-exaggeration. It must also be noted that Mr. Spencer's work is highly biased and influenced by his Jewish Ancestral viewpoints.

Of course, this has happened before. Jihad Watch News Editor Anne Crockett has noted here before that Wikipedia, since anyone can edit it, is absolutely worthless, and here is yet more evidence that she was correct: the Wikipedia editor above assumes that I speak about the roots of jihad violence within Islamic theology solely because I'm Jewish. That might make some small bit of sense except for one little catch: I'm not Jewish.
I was just posting an article. I'd never heard of Blythe, I just found it interesting. It's not like I could use it to discredit Darwin or anything...doesn't make what he said wrong.


When genetics got added, the term was neo-darwinism. In 1942, the new findings were summarized in a book by Julian Huxley and the updated term was Modern Synthesis. There have been so many new findings in the last 30 years, a couple more updated names have been suggested. The most likely candidate to stick at this time is "evo-devo," reflecting significant research in embryonic development and its direction by DNA.
As far as I can tell, though, when people use the term Darwinism-they are implying neo-Darwinism. I'll switch to that if it makes everyone happy. Even though I don't like word games.

I mean, for example:
“Even if there were no actual evidence in favor of the Darwinian theory…we should still be justified in preferring it over all rival theories.” (The Blind Watchmaker)
Even though he's a complete fool, I do believe he'd have gotten wind of neo-Darwinism...
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
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Post by sandy_mcd »

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:... I was just posting an article. I'd never heard of Blythe, I just found it interesting. ...
As far as I can tell, though, when people use the term Darwinism-they are implying neo-Darwinism. I'll switch to that if it makes everyone happy.
1) Wikipedia can be unreliable on controversial issues but does seem pretty good otherwise.
2) I agree with you, it was an interesting post. I had never heard of Blyth either and the style of the Wikipedia article seemed reasonable.
3) The choice of "Darwinism" or "neo-Darwinism" really only matters if the argument advanced depends on the difference between the two. As a general reference to evolution, either should suffice. I don't like the term because many people use it thinking scientists follow a person rather than the person's science.
4) The only criticism I intended in any of this is was of the original blog entry at uncommon descent. The author did not bring up any of the issues which a quick Google search would have revealed [although they do show up in comments].
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Post by AttentionKMartShoppers »

To be nitpicky, I don't see how you quickly finding several articles against the view talked about on uncommon descent proves anything. I can type in arguments for the existence of God, and also arguments against the existence of God, and find thousands of site on each site-so according to your line of reasoning, what conclusion do I reach? Quantity of websites isn't the issue, it's the quality of arguments and facts :lol:

And evolution is too broad of term to use-I mean, for example, Michael Behe believes in evolution. So does Dembski. But they do not believe in Darwinism-that evolution is caused by natural selection and random (if such a thing exists) mutations.
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."

He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin

-Winston Churchill

An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.

You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
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