Hard Evidence for the OEC claim for the Age of the Earth

[Canuckster1127]

This thread is intended as a compendium of material, posts and links demonstrating the age of the earth.

A similar thread has been started to afford YEC proponents the same forum to present their hard evidence.

Initially, I request we maintain debate on other threads and let these Threads serve as references for source materials.

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/model.html


Biblical Creationary Model for the Universe and Life on Earth
by Rich Deem

Introduction

A common complaint of atheists is that creationists attack standard models of evolution, but provide no viable alternate model. The purpose of this page is to provide just that - a creationary, scientific model for the universe and life within it. The writings of the Bible provide enough information to form a thorough and complete creationary model for the reality of the universe and human existence. This model has predictive value and can be tested against the known physical characteristics of the universe and life on Earth.

Purpose

The creationary model is being presented because the standard, naturalistic models have failed in several areas of scientific research. For example, there is no testable naturalistic model for the cause of the universe. In fact, the laws of physics demand that there is no way that we can interact with anything outside of our universe. Other areas that defy naturalistic explanation include the origin of life, the Cambrian explosion, and the origin of human consciousness. Progress is possible in these three areas, but it is unlikely that any naturalistic theory will fully explain key steps required for each process to proceed. It is my contention that none of these processes have a naturalistic origin, and, in fact, are logically impossible, given the laws of physics that operate in our universe. I believe that science will be able to completely rule out all naturalistic origin of life models at some time in the future.

Biblical Model of Origins

The Bible describes the creation of the universe, the earth, and life on it. The Bible also describes the laws that govern the universe and its ultimate fate.

The Order of Creation According to the Bible

Creation of the entire physical universe (matter,1 energy,2 space3 and time4) from the invisible (16 x 109 years ago).5 This creation event includes an expanding universe,6 which continues to expand at this time.6

Preparation of planet earth for the creation of life. The Bible describes the Earth's initial conditions following its creation when the Sun is already shining. The Bible also says that the Earth is controlled by the heavens and not the other way around (geocentrism is refuted).7 The original Earth is described as being without any oceans or water at all (4.5 x 109 years ago).8 Science tells us that the Earth's water probably came from cometary collisions that were common during the early history of the Solar System.9 The main biblical creation account (Genesis 1) begins after the formation of the Earth's oceans with a description of the Earth as a water-covered planet covered by dense clouds (4.0 x 109 years ago).10

The dense atmosphere is partially cleared so that light can strike the surface of the earth. (3.9 x 109 years ago).
Formation of a stable water cycle (3.9 x 109 years ago).11
Formation of continents, including an accurate description of the tectonic activity that produced the continents (2.7 x 109 years ago)12
Creation of plants on the land and their subsequent "production by the land," possibly including some naturalistic processes (0.9 x 109 years ago).13

Transformation of the atmosphere from translucent transparent as the Sun, Moon, and stars show through the atmosphere. (0.9-0.6 x 109 years ago)

Creation of swarms of small sea animals and their subsequent "great increase" or "teeming by the water" (consistent with the Cambrian explosion) possibly involving some naturalistic processes. (0.5-0.3 x 109 years ago)14

Creation of birds (140-60 x 106 years ago)15

Creation of sea mammals (60-50 x 106 years ago)16

Creation of land mammals that interact with humans (30-15 x 106 years ago)17

creeping land mammals (e.g., rodents)
large quadraped land mammals (e.g., cattle)
wild land mammals (e.g., carnivores)
Creation of modern humans (100-50 x 103 years ago)18

The Bible is unique among ancient creation accounts in that its description of the order of creation is 100% accurate.

A more detailed description of the biblical creation account may be found at Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation.

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ReferencesIn the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. (Genesis 1:1)

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)

Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out... (Isaiah 42:5)

"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host. (Isaiah 45:12)

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it... (Isaiah 45:18)

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible... (Colossians 1:16)

"Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created." (Revelation 4:11)

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent (Psalms 104:2)

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)

God was acting before the beginning of our timeline and created our timeline:

...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)

a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)

No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)

To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)

The universe was formed at God's command, so that what was seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)

Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)

Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)

It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)

Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)

Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" (Isaiah 44:24)

"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host." (Isaiah 45:12)

"Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together." (Isaiah 48:13)

That you have forgotten the Lord your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens, And laid the foundations of the earth; That you fear continually all day long because of the fury of the oppressor, As he makes ready to destroy? But where is the fury of the oppressor? (Isaiah 51:13)

It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 10:12)

It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, And by His understanding He stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 51:15)

The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)

"Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)

When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; (Proverbs 8:24)

Chyba, C. and C. Sagan. 1992. Endogenous production, exogenous delivery and impact-shock synthesis of organic molecules: an inventory for the origins of life. Nature 355: 125-132.

And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding... Or who enclosed the sea with doors, When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band" (Job 38:4-9)

Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. (Genesis 1:6-7)

Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:9-10)

Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains... The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which Thou didst establish for them. Thou didst set a boundary that they may not pass over; That they may not return to cover the earth. (Psalms 104:6-9)

The LORD by wisdom founded the Earth; By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up... (Proverbs 3:19)

Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:11-12)

Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures..." (Genesis 1:20a)

... and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." (Genesis 1:20b)

Modern birds created by 55 x 106 years ago:
Feduccia, A. Explosive evolution in tertiary birds and mammals. Science 267: 637-638, 1995.)

And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:21)

Appearance of modern whales 50 x 106 years ago:
Gingerich, PD., Raza, SM., Arif, M, Anwar, M, and Ahou, X. Nature 368: 844-847, 1994.
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:24-25)

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day, And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also shall cease From being a nation before Me forever." (Jeremiah 31:35-36)

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... bible.html

Accurate Biblical Descriptions of Scientific Principles
by Rich Deem

Science and the Bible at odds?The Bible is often described as a book that includes many ideas that are scientifically inaccurate. The truth is that what many Christians (and non-Christians) have misinterpreted the Bible in such a way as to make it seem to be at odds with the reality of our world. For example, the Roman Catholic Church promoted geocentrism (the idea that the earth is the center of the universe) for many years. This concept is not found in the Bible, but stems from the idea that since humans are the center of God's attention, that the place where they live must be the center of God's universe. This is neither a logical nor biblical inference. In fact, the Bible states that the heavens "fix their rule over the earth,"1 demonstrating that the heavens control the earth and not the other way around. The early proponents (Nicholas Copernicus, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei) of heliocentrism (the earth revolving around the Sun) were all Christians (see related page - People of Faith - Famous Scientists). In fact, Isaac Newton, in his famous scientific work, Principia, stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Of course, the Bible was not written as a work of science nor was its purpose to describe the workings of the physical world. It was written to explain spiritual principles - the nature of mankind, the nature of God, and how people can have a personal relationship with God. However, when the Bible describes the physical world, it is accurate. The purpose of this page is to illustrate some of the examples of scientific principles described in the Bible hundreds to thousands of years before they were proved to be true by science.

Scientific Principle Biblical Reference

Cosmology/Astronomy

Time had a beginning 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, 1 Corinthians 2:72

The universe had a beginning Genesis 1:1, 2:4, Isaiah 42:5, etc.3

The universe was created from the invisible Hebrews 11:34

The dimensions of the universe were created Romans 8:38-395

The universe is expanding Job 9:8, Psalms 104:2, Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 45:12, Isaiah 48:13, Isaiah 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, Jeremiah 51:15, Zechariah 12:16

Creation of matter and energy has ended in the universe (refutes steady-state theory) Genesis 2:3-47

The universe is winding down and will "wear out" Psalms 102:25-278

Describes the correct order of creation Genesis 1 (see Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation)

Number of stars exceeds a billion Genesis 22:17, Jeremiah 33:229

Every star is different 1 Corinthians 15:4110

Pleiades and Orion as gravitationally bound star groups Job 38:3111

Light is in motion Job 38:19-2012

The earth is controlled by the heavens Job 38:331

Earth is a sphere Isaiah 40:2213 Job 26:1014

At any time, there is day and night on the Earth Luke 17:34-3515

Earth is suspended in space Job 26:716

Earth Sciences

Earth began as a waterworld. Formation of continents by tectonic activity described Genesis 1:2-9, Psalms 104:6-9, Proverbs 3:19, Proverbs 8:27-29, Job 38:4-8, 2 Peter 3:517

Water cycle described Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10, Job 36:27-2818

Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea 2 Samuel 22:1619

Vents exist on the bottom of the sea Job 38:1620

Ocean currents in the sea Psalms 8:821

Air has weight Job 28:2522

Winds blow in circular paths Ecclesiastes 1:623

Biology

The chemical nature of human life Genesis 2:7, 3:1924

Life of creatures are in the blood Leviticus 17:1125

The nature of infectious diseases Leviticus 13:4626

Importance of sanitation to health

Numbers 19, Deuteronomy 23:12-13, Leviticus 7-927

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References

• "Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)
  
  The universe was formed at God's command, so that what was seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)
  
  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)
  
  This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)
  
  Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)
  
  "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host. (Isaiah 45:12)
  
  For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)
  
  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16)
  
  "Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created." (Revelation 4:11)
  
  ...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
  
  a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)
  
  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
  
  To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
  
  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
  
  Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
  
  Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)
  
  It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)
  
  Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)
  
  Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" (Isaiah 44:24)
  
  "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host." (Isaiah 45:12)
  
  "Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together." (Isaiah 48:13)
  
  That you have forgotten the Lord your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens, And laid the foundations of the earth; That you fear continually all day long because of the fury of the oppressor, As he makes ready to destroy? But where is the fury of the oppressor? (Isaiah 51:13)
  
  It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 10:12)
  
  It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, And by His understanding He stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 51:15)
  
  The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)
  
  Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:3-4)
  
  In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end. (Psalms 102:25-27)
  
  that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. (Romans 8:21)
  
  "I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies." (Genesis 22:17)
  
  "'I will make the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister before Me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'" (Jeremiah 33:22)
  
  Note: Only about 3,000 stars can be seen with the naked eye.
  The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. (1 Corinthians 15:41)
  
  "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" (Job 38:31) NOTE: All other star groups visible to the naked eye are unbound, with the possible exception of the Hyades.
  
  "What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside?" (Job 38:19)
  
  He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)
  
  "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness." (Job 26:10)
  
  "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left. "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left. (Luke 17:34-35) Obviously, some people will be working while others will be sleeping when the Lord returns.
  
  He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. (Job 26:7)
  
  The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters... Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:2, 9)
  
  Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains... The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which Thou didst establish for them. Thou didst set a boundary that they may not pass over; That they may not return to cover the earth. (Psalms 104:6-9)
  
  The LORD by wisdom founded the Earth; By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up... (Proverbs 3:19)
  
  "When He established the heavens, I [wisdom] was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the land; (Proverbs 8:27-29)
  
  "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding... Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; (Job 38:4,
  
  For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the land was formed out of water and by water, (2 Peter 3:5)
  
  All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
  
  As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, (Isaiah 55:10)
  
  "For He draws up the drops of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly." (Job 36:27-28)
  
  The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid
  bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. (2 Samuel 22:16)
  
  "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? (Job 38:16) First discovered in the 1970's. See Exploring the deep ocean floor: Hot springs and strange creatures
  
  ... and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. (Psalms 8:8)
  
  "When He imparted weight to the wind, And meted out the waters by measure" (Job 28:25)
  
  Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns. (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
  
  the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. (Genesis 2:7)
  
  "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:19)
  
  For the life of a creature is in the blood... (Leviticus 17:11)
  
  "The person with such an infectious disease must wear torn clothes, let his hair be unkempt, cover the lower part of his face and cry out, 'Unclean! Unclean!' As long as he has the infection he remains unclean. He must live alone; he must live outside the camp." (Leviticus 13:46)
  
  "You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement. (Deuteronomy 23:12-13)

[Canuckster1127]

Just posted as links for those who wish to examine it from a Biblical perspective.

In the Beginning... Biblical Creation Models
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... odels.html

The Literal Interpretation of the Genesis One Creation Account
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html

Does Genesis One Conflict with Science? Day-Age Interpretation
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html

Biblical Defense of Long Creation Days
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... fense.html

Biblical Evidence for Long Creation Days
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html

The Genesis Flood Why the Bible Says It Must be Local
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... flood.html

Psalms 104:9 - Does it refer to the Original Creation or the Flood?
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/psalm104.html

Genesis 6-9: The Flood
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... trans.html

Is the Biblical Flood Account a Modified Copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gilgamesh.html

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... ssive.html

Progressive Creation: An Overview

by Dale Tooley
Introduction

Most people, sometimes even Christians, will be aware of only three alternative views used to explain the existence of the natural world in which we live and the seemingly infinite universe beyond. However, a fourth, and increasingly accepted alternative explanation has been called "progressive creation" or the day-age interpretation.
Creation

First there are the young earth creationists, who are often seen as putting strong emphasis on God having created everything instantly and out of nothing all in the matter of six days, some 6000 years ago. Genesis chapters one and two must be taken "as read" in a very concrete way, without pictorial input, and are held to be historically and scientifically correct when read in this way. So according to this view about six to ten thousand years ago God spoke everything into being in six solar days and then rested on the seventh twenty-four hour period.1 Often there is no recognition of the fact that many Christians, calling themselves creationists, do not hold to the Genesis account of creation quite so concretely.

Natural Forces Only

In sharp contradiction to the above are the Secular Evolutionists who see the whole of existence as purely material with "matter" as eternally existent and all life coming into being by accident over many millions of years. A big problem they have is that modern science verifies the Big Bang theory. That is, that the universe is exploding and can be traced back to a single point. If the universe has a beginning, it must have a beginner! A question that that can be asked of the secular evolutionist is : "How can you go back forever without accepting a supernatural concept"?

Science historian Frederick Burnham commented that for scientists, "Belief in God is more respectable today than at any time in the last hundred years". ("Science & Religion are discovering Commonality in Big Bang theory." Los Angeles Times, 2 May 1992).

Of course, it is accepted that there are "natural forces" at work. These natural forces provided a home for the millions of species of the earth who evolved by the "natural selection" from those most fit to survive in their environment.

It should be pointed out that it actually takes an enormous leap of faith to believe that these hundreds of very finely tuned natural forces themselves exist by blind chance and there is no process of "evolution" that can account for the incredible fine tuning of them to make life possible. Evolution has to do with life forms and is more accurately described as "Blind Chance Evolution" (i.e., the ideas in Richard Dawkins book The Blind Watchmaker and is frustrated by two contradictory assertions: life comes only from life; and life originally rose from the inorganic).

A third view rejects the blind chance element of evolution, contending instead that a higher intelligence engineered the first forms of matter and the first life form, or forms, and arranged for natural forces He/She or "It" put in place initially to evolve upwardly. Along with the creationist positions the theistic evolutionist can see in the physics of the universe harmony, consistency, pervading beauty and elegance of design. It's interesting that when you see science fiction programs on film or television nobody can come up with anything more beautiful than earth scenes or the human form! Unearthly forms are always ugly, never beautiful, to our eyes at least.

In the theistic evolutionist's view natural selection and the transmutation of species are seen as the tooling used to bring about higher and higher life forms. Here, usually, God does not supernaturally intervene at any point, although convictions do differ widely and it would be quite wrong to say that all who believe in "evolution" deny the intervention of the miraculous.

Both creationists and theistic evolutionists are often mocked as believing in "the God of the gaps" but the opposite of this is "no God of the gaps". The facts are that there are gaps, everywhere ,which science cannot fill with purely natural explanation. By leaving God out of the equation "naturalism" is constantly stretched to find answers. Some will claim that science is closing the gaps where Christians put God as the only explanation. But while some gaps are closing bigger and wider ones are opening up elsewhere, especially in the finely tuned aspects of the universe and the intricacies of cell formation so the gap-filling exercise is never ending.

Pantheism, the view that God and nature are one, shares much in this viewpoint but denies, or greatly downgrades, the idea of a personal God.
Somewhere between

A fourth view, which I am surprised many Christians still do not know by name, but which without considering the mechanics, many instinctively believe, is called progressive creationism. It is fair to say it lies in between theistic evolution and young earth creationism, drawing some points from both but always insisting on the input of an Intelligent Designer. It agrees with the former in believing that there was a much longer time frame than six twenty-four hour periods and holds that each new life form was not, necessarily, created out of nothing, or out of previously non-living material. Or at least that the "template" of previously existing life is used again - with adjustments. It agrees with the latter, not only in affirming the verbal inspiration of the Bible, but that God was present at every stage of the creation of life and that every new life form was a deliberate and miraculous act of God.

It is unfortunate that Progressive Creation, or Old Earth Creation, as it is sometimes known , is often tagged from the left and the right with the word "compromise" - given its "shameful or disreputable concession" meaning. But of course this has the built in bias that the truth lies in one of two or more extreme positions. We do not believe this to be the case here.

The word "evolution" is often so emotionally charged among Christians that its mere mention is upsetting. However in its ordinary usage it simply means "change in respect to time" whether short or long. To some Christians its definition is restricted to a narrow biological one implying natural processes that gave rise to all the different species. Christians need to learn to react less aggressively to a mere mention of the word.

The Progressive Creationist accepts the flood story (properly understood) as truth and not myth. He accepts all the fundamentals of conventional, mainstream theology, including the creation of man as a totally unique being, capable of spiritual communication with God, his fall into sin and the redemption provided by the Second Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ. I have yet to find a Progressive Creationist who does not take an historical Church view in his approach to Scripture.
Too Concrete

He differs only with the Young Earth Creationist in that he believes, based on his knowledge of the Word of God and the revelations of true science, (twin revelations given by God) that the words of the Genesis Creation and Flood stories can be taken more concretely than the Holy Spirit ever intended. He is most concerned that many educated people find a stumbling block to the Gospel from misconceptions of what Genesis chapters 1 to 11 really say.

He hears this sort of question often put: "Why consider the message of a book that right from the beginning contradicts established facts of science?" It will not do to respond by saying something like: "Evolution is a totally unproved theory". There is much more to the subject of origins than just "natural selection and the transmutation of species" and there are many things that can rightly be held under a more general heading of "evolution".

The progressive creationist is often dismayed at the scorn poured on honest and hardworking scientists in their legitimate research of natural history. The Christian community should acknowledge that Copernican astronomy, the existence of the antipodes, surgical operations and vaccinations, just to name a few matters, were all attacked, in their time, by some who could be loosely termed "fundamentalists".

So the question should be posed: Have we made in geology and similar sciences, a monster out of a balloon? Surely, if Genesis is silent about secondary causes and science is ignorant about first causes, it is only as we bring them together that we can get a full understanding of the universe and the geological record on earth. We need the twin revelations of God. The Bible, unlike any other book, is intended to be read and understood by all cultures and spanning several thousands of years. This places some serious restraints on the extent and detail of science it can contain.

St. Augustine warned: "Be on guard against giving interpretations of Scripture that are farfetched or opposed to science, and so exposing the Word of God to the ridicule of unbelievers."

There are certain basic facts that are beyond dispute here: For instance, light travels at a speed of 186,000 miles per second and comes from galaxies, some of which are billions of light years away. We can check just how far the light has come by the distinct variations in colour in relation to the distance traveled. On February 23, 1987 there was a supernova, in space that actually happened 160,000 light-years away but observed on that day. Modern man, because of the huge time lags in space, has the privilege of actually witnessing some of God's handiwork. Psalm 90:4 says: "For a thousand years are in your sight as a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.." Some have claimed that light was once much faster but is slowing down. But studies show that the speed of light in incredibly stable. A much faster speed of light changes the balance of everything else and would make life impossible.

Surely the intent of the creation narrative is not to focus on time but to evoke the worship, adoration, obedience and love that belongs to God, and to dismiss any view of nature which denies the existence of One Personal God who existed before nature and is the master of His own creation.

Jeremiah 10:12 states, "He [God] has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, and has stretched out the heavens at His discretion".

The Bible depicts God as the God of nature's laws, who has unlimited ability to work through His own laws of nature. The crossing of the Red Sea is an example:

"The Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided". (Exodus, 14:21)

God here is seen to be active within nature. Certainly wherever there is life anywhere in the universe it has to be the result of God's activity within nature.
Fossils

The progressive creationist does not accept that "flood geology" can even begin to explain the rich geological order of the earth and its fossils. Land masses arise gradually as a result of volcanic activity and plate tectonics. These wrinkle the earth's surface and, after the added effects of erosion, create the geological strata. As plate tectonics and volcanic activity superseded erosion land masses rose above the ocean to cover about 30% of the earth's surface. It is from these forces that we get the geological formations we have, not enormous earth shattering events triggered by a deluge of the kind the "flood geologists" envisage.

Coral reefs, for instance, are very fragile and could never survive this deluge. Varves are annual layers of sediment that form distinct layers of seasonal deposits in lake beds and the chemical deposits are different in the summer than they are the rest of the year. The green river formation consists of more than 20,000,000 annual layers! There are fossils neatly set between the layers making them impossible to be there as a result of a single flood.

The progressive creationist holds to the conviction that the Genesis flood was regional, for which he has some overwhelming biblical and rationally deduced evidence. For one thing, the several million species in the world have their own ecological niches. There are thousands of distinct life forms that exist in Australia and New Zealand alone and they live a long, long way from where the Ark came to rest. The three-toed sloth is an animal that only travels at, top speed, 0.068 m.p.h. (!) and the fossil record says they have always been indigenous to South America only.

Present indications are that there were anywhere up to one billion species that existed in the past but are now extinct. Those that think that the several million species that now exist descended from a much smaller number of species in the ark really believe in incredibly swift macroevolution and rapidly undo all their anti-evolutionary arguments. It's just not feasible for it to happen within the limits of microevolution. To say otherwise is to bring justified mocking from the scientific community (those that speak from within their specified discipline).

There is in Western Asia a deeply depressed area extending from the Sea of Aral to the Steppes of the Caucasus and around the southern shores of the Caspian, which includes the hilly regions of Ararat, where the Ark came to rest ( not Mount Ararat - the Bible does not say that) and the Great Salt Desert. It is the recognized centre of the human family at the time of the flood. This is an area of considerably over 300,000 square kilometers and more than enough reason for the need of an Ark the size that Noah built. It is perfectly within the bounds of Scripture to believe that the deluge was universal only in so far as the area and observation of the narrator extended. The word "har" as in "mountain" is actually a generic term for any elevation and "under all heaven" is a figure of speech common to the Bible, e.g., Deut. 2:25 and Isaiah 13:5 ,7. The writers of scripture often used a form of speech known as synecdoche, where a whole is used for a part.

When God told the Israelites that He would put the fear of them upon the people under the whole heaven (Deut. 2:25) surely He meant only those known to the Israelites. When Genesis 41:57 says that all countries came to Egypt to buy grain, it must mean only those countries known to the Egyptians. Did Ahab look for Elijah in every country of earth? 1 Kings 18:10 says he ignored "no nation or kingdom". Must we believe he searched through India and China?

These observations are just a start. I doubt whether many Christians have ever thought through the implications of a fully universal flood. The number of species in the world is almost infinitely vaster than those animals on show at the zoo. What happened to the thousands of species dependent on fresh water then mixed with salt? What happened to all the flora of the earth crushed under 9 kilometers of water (if indeed the Flood covered even Mount Everest)!

What about geographical distribution where species have been isolated. The marsupials of Australia are a good example. Kangaroos, koalas, wombats, Tasmanian devils (and the now extinct dog like marsupial the Tasmanian tiger) and all sorts of rat like marsupials and their fossils are only found in this region. Moas, kiwis and many other distinctive species of bird, only in New Zealand.
The queries just go on and on.
Evolutionary tree?

But now the "evolutionist" has much to answer for also:

How then do we explain the fossil history which appears to show a progression from simple to complex? This could not be through the "transmutation of species" as it is generally taught, because, as every good creationist knows, the "evolutionary tree" is all twigs and leaves with no branches and certainly no trunk! The fossil record does not exhibit a gradual step by step development.

"The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils…" (Stephen Jay Gould in The Panda's Thumb, 1980, pp.179, 80).

Almost always we find a sudden appearance of a particular species followed by "stasis", meaning that the species remain virtually unchanged for its tenor on earth. There are species that appear to be transitional but little to no transitional forms (for example half-wings). All examples found are fully formed and fully functional.

Charles Darwin wrote: "If my theory be true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking close together all the species of the same group must surely have existed."

There should be innumerable step by step fossils available to us, but there is not. Biologist David S. Woodruff has stated: "Fossil species remain unchanged throughout most of their history and the record fails to contain a single example of a significant transition." ("Evolution :The Paleobiological View" in Science 16 May 1980, p. 716).

There are huge gaps at the bottom of every new order of life, which is not just the opinion of a novice.

C.C. Olsen who wrote "The Evolution of Life" for New American Library (1965, p. 94) said: "Many new groups of animals suddenly appear, apparently without close ancestors. Most major groups of organisms, phyla, sub-phyla, and even classes, have appeared this way. This aspect of the record is real, not merely the result of faulty or biased collecting. A satisfactory explanation of evolution must take it into consideration and provide an explanation".

A.S. Romer, who wrote Man and the Vertebrates and Vertebrate Paleontology, on no fewer than sixteen occasions admits huge gaps in the fossil record that prevents the relating of various origins of life forms. This includes such large groupings as the monkeys, seals, marsupials, bats, marine reptiles, turtles, frogs, salamanders and the first vertebrates. From other scientific works we can also add urchins, sponges, jellyfish, trilobites, invertebrates, spiders, insects, snakes, monotremes (egg-laying mammals), rodents, deer, cattle, and giraffes.

Geologist David Kitts in an article "Paleontology and Evolutionary Theory said: "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them." (Evolution, Sept. 1974, p. 467)
Coding and re-coding

Nature itself lacks the means of bringing about hundreds of thousands of improbable accidents. Intelligence has to be injected. As yet biochemists cannot manufacture from scratch a single DNA or RNA molecule or any of the more complex proteins. Abiogenesis remains impossible. The vast complexity of even the simplest life form argues against natural self-assembly.

The requirements of both Science and Genesis can be met by what might be called Extra-Cosmic Coding and Re-coding. We must look outside the physical and biological realm.

Victor Pearce (British Anthropologist, with honours) in his book titled Who Was Adam? says, "The common feature of all living organisms is the DNA code. As there is only one language used in it the instructions must come from one source, and as the instructions for the simplest viable unit of life are complex, that source must be an adequate one with intelligence equal to that needed to invent a computer-automated factory".

Since the one source is not made of the material things themselves it is not observable.

As Hebrews 11:3 puts it, "... the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible".

The smallest piece of protein could not exist without a previous equivalent piece of DNA code instruction and could not therefore be "bits of the machinery". Even a virus is not complete in itself, but must practice symbiosis with bacteria or other living cells. The simplest forms of life have a DNA sequence of considerable length. Microbiologist James Shapiro of the University of Chicago declared in National Review that "There are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations." (Shapiro 1996).

In Nature University of Chicago evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne stated, "There is no doubt that the pathways described by Behe (author of Darwin's Black Box) are dauntingly complex, and their evolution will be hard to unravel.. .. (We) ..may forever be unable to envisage the first proto-pathways." (Coyne 1996)

Psalm 104:30 says, "You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth". In the Genesis account, six times the expression "God said" or its equivalent, occurs in reference to the progression of orders of living creatures. The evidence suggests the renewal would refer to acts of re-coding.
Progressive

All the major invertebrates appeared together in the Cambrian seas, said to exist 570 million years ago and described as an "explosion" of evolution. In an instant - in geological terms - more than 100 phyla (major groupings) appear. The important body parts including eyes, digestive systems, nervous systems, circulatory systems, etc. are present.

"Most of the major groups of animals (phyla) appear fully fledged in the early Cambrian rocks and we know of no fossil forms linking them." (Colin Patterson in Evolution, 1978, p. 133).

A major recoding would involve the appearance of the back-boned fishes. Thousands of fossils are preserved from these early periods but not one intermediate form. These new life forms contain the basic cell mechanism but include much additional information.

Other extensive changes would be required for

* cold blooded, egg laying reptiles
* warm blooded placental mammals
* warm blooded birds
* the mechanics of flight in four very distinctive life forms: insects, birds, bats and flying reptiles.

Man is distinct

I suspect that to this point many creationist Christians might be happy to go along with the progressive creationists logic but will ask, "Surely man is a completely distinct creation"?

Although this is a possibility, certain facts would indicate a "yes" and "no" answer here.

There are two sides to man's nature. His body comes from the earth like the animals. It's an uncomfortable fact for some Christians to follow that there is conclusive evidence to show that his DNA is 98.2% the same as a chimpanzee and 97.8% the same as a gorilla!

There is something else we must take note of. It is reported that certain pseudogenes, caused by copying "errors" are found in the exact locus spots of the DNA molecule in both humans and chimpanzees. This suggests a link of DNA information but is no proof of the transmutation of species. Whether there is a descending biological link with a huge intervention by God to produce a new species (in this case man) is not important. It is clear from the evidence God did use the same "template" - with adjustments - and I am not insulted!

But (and it's a big but) man was made in God's image (not a physical image). So the other side of his nature, his psyche and spirit comes from God's breath. Yes, "God formed man of the dust of the ground". The word "formed" implies a process, and we need not see God forming man like we would put together a gingerbread man. "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field". The same word "formed" is used and the human body has the physics of the universe in it.

The word formed could refer to cellular ancestry. However, the inbreathing of God clearly refers to man's spiritual nature which separates him decisively from the animals.

Man is very different from the animals in that he has spiritual awareness. He talks to an unseen God in prayer. No animal ever shows any consciousness of the need for prayer. He has awareness of a moral code written in a conscience and has concerns about death and life after death. He has consciousness of self, a drive for discovery and a capacity to recognize truth.

"God created man in His own image". The use of the verb "create" - bara in Hebrew - appears to indicate something more than re-coding. It appears very sparingly in Genesis and appears only twice before: First, when matter is created and second when life first emerges. While it can refer to creation ex nihilo, sometimes rendered "out of nothing", its usage is less restrictive. Its emphasis is on the newness or uniqueness of what is brought forth. Only Homo sapiens sapiens (modern man) can fellowship with the Lord and only we are accountable to Him.

One re-coding of DNA in Scripture is certain. Genesis 2:21 & 22 reads, And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his "ribs" and He closed up the flesh in its place. The rib which the Lord God had taken from the man He made into a woman.... God changed the "xy" factor and by doing so gave modern man a very good hint of progression in creation through the intervention of the Creator adjusting the DNA makeup.
Notes

1. Those that insist that the seventh day was twenty four hours and therefore well in the past need to explain what God did on the eighth such day. (i.e., did He go and create another universe ?)

Each of the six creation days closes with the same refrain : "There was evening, and there was morning the ….day." Its absence from the seventh day can be taken as a hint that the day has not ended.

About the Author

Dale Tooley had been defending the faith against attack by the media for over 15 years when he wrote his first book, Salting The Press in 1983. During his first 15 years in defense of the Christian worldview, Mr. Tooley assumed that the 24-hour creation day interpretation was held by a small minority of Christians. Having discovered that this interpretation is held by the majority of Christians, Mr. Tooley has been involved in researching Christian views on creation to better present the gospel to unbelievers. He is director of Hasten The Light Ministries, which examines eschatology (end times prophecy) of the Bible.

Those who have problems with the idea of death in the animal world before Adam sinned can email me for a copy of an interesting and satisfying article I found on the subject.

Hasten The Light Ministries
(http://www.hastenthelight.org.nz)
Box 31472
Lower Hutt, New Zealand

Other Resources

Peril in Paradise: Theology, Science, and the Age of the Earth by Mark S. Whorton, Ph.D.

This book, written for Christians, examines creation paradigms on the basis of what scripture says. Many Christians assume that the young earth "perfect paradise" paradigm is based upon what the Bible says. In reality, the "perfect paradise" paradigm fails in its lack of biblical support and also in its underlying assumptions that it forces upon a "Christian" worldview. Under the "perfect paradise" paradigm, God is relegated to the position of a poor designer, whose plans for the perfect creation are ruined by the disobedience of Adam and Eve. God is forced to come up with "plan B," in which He vindictively creates weeds, disease, carnivorous animals, and death to get back at humanity for their sin. Young earth creationists inadvertently buy into the atheistic worldview that suffering could not have been the original intent of God, stating that the earth was created "for our pleasure." However, the Bible says that God created carnivores, and that the death of animals and plants was part of God's original design for the earth.

A Matter of Days by Hugh Ross

Dr. Ross looks the creation date controversy from a biblical, historical, and scientific perspective. Most of the book deals with what the Bible has to say about the days of creation. Ross concludes that biblical models of creation should be tested through the whole of scripture and the revelations of nature.

The Genesis Debate: Three teams of evangelical scholars tackle the question of how God created the universe by presenting and defending their respective views in a lively, yet friendly, forum. J. Ligon Duncan III and David W. Hall defend the view that the Genesis creation days are six, sequential days, each 24 hours long (the 24-hour view). Hugh Ross and Gleason L. Archer defend the view that the Genesis creation days are six sequential ages of time of unspecified but finite duration (the day-age view). And Lee Irons with Meredith G. Kline defend the view that the Genesis creation days are presented as normal days, but that the picture of God's creating in six days and resting on the seventh is figurative (the Framework view).

Darwin's Black Box by Michael Behe

Darwin's Black Box discusses the problems associated with macroevolution at the level of biochemistry and molecular biology and presents the case for intelligent design.

The Genesis Question by Hugh Ross

The Theory of Creation by Jim Schicatano
http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... ssive.html

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gap.html

The "Gap" Creation Model
by Rich Deem
Introduction

The "gap" model accepts the ancient age of the universe, but states that the earth was remade following corruption by Satan and his angels. The "standard" gap model states that God created the earth and populated it with angels, the chief of whom was the angel Satan. However, Satan rebelled and convinced one third of the angels to follow him in rebellion. Through this age of rebellion and sin, the earth became corrupted so much that God had to judge the world through a pre-adamic flood so that it "had become" formless and void. The usual translation of Genesis 1:2 has been changed as shown below:

* And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2, NASB)
* And the earth had become formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2, gap theory)

The impetus for this translation comes from a single verse in the book of Isaiah:

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)

Proponents of the gap theory say that the Lord did not create the earth as a waste place (Hebrew word is tohu, Strong's number H8414), but as a world to be inhabited. However, Genesis 1:2 says that the earth was formless (Hebrew word is tohu). Obviously, if the earth was not created as tohu, it must have become tohu at some point after it was created.
Pre-Adamic flood

The idea of a Pre-Adamic flood has been around for some time, although it is difficult to support either biblically or scientifically. The gap theory states that there was a large gap of time between Genesis 1:1 (the creation of the universe 14 billion years ago) and Genesis 1:2 (the remaking of the earth). Both the day-age and gap theories would accept that there is a gap of 10-12 billion years between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. However, the gap theory states that the days of Genesis (described after Genesis 1:2) were 24 hours days, making all the extant creatures of the earth less than 10,000 years old. The model accepts the ancient fossil record as the evidence of the creatures that inhabited the earth before it was corrupted by Satan and his demons. However, the model would predict that we would find evidence of a global flood 6,000-10,000 years ago, along with a break in the fossil record and the introduction of the entire array of extant species at the time.
Biblical problems with the gap theory

Proponents of the gap theory translate Genesis 1:2 as, "And the earth had become formless and void." It is true, the Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:2, hayah, usually translated "was," is also translated elsewhere as "became" or "had become." However, this word is extremely common, occurring over 1,000 times in the book of Genesis alone, where it is given over 100 different translations in the NASB version. Since biblical Hebrew is a very small language (containing less than 9,000 words), many Hebrew words have multiple meanings. Therefore, the proper translation must be determined from the context in which the word is found. I have listed some of the more common translations of hayah from the book of Genesis:

Translation


Number of Times

Became


85

Become


230

Been


98

Came


526

Come


141

Happen


13

Happened


59

Has


19

Have


97

Remain
9

Remained
6

As you can see, Genesis 1:2 could be translated "And the earth remained formless and void..." This would make sense, since the context indicates that God had just begun moving above the waters of the earth to change it for habitation. The word hayah is used 18 times in the first 20 verses of Genesis 1 and it would not make sense to translate it "had become" in any of the other 17 verses. Therefore, I see no reason from the context of Genesis 1:1 or 1:2 to translate hayah in Genesis 1:2 as "had become."

Theologically, I find it difficult to support the concept that Satan has the power to destroy and corrupt all of God's creation. I'm sure that if he really had that kind of power, he would have used it again to destroy the world or at least prevent the Messiah from living. Nowhere in the Bible is that kind of power attributed to Satan, since his primary method of operation is through lies and deceit.1
Scientific problems with the gap theory

Proponents of the theory state that the dinosaurs were destroyed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. We know from radioactive dating that the dinosaurs and about 80% of all other species of life were destroyed 65 million years ago, probably by a collision of an asteroid with the earth. Life on earth did not cease at that time, since God created an entirely new set of animals and plants within five million years of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction. There is no complete gap in the fossil record from 3.6 billion years ago until the present age. There is no gap at all recorded in the fossil record for thousands of modern species for the past hundreds of thousands of years. In addition, there is abundant evidence that modern man has been on this planet for the last 50,000 years. If the earth at one point "became waste and wild" through a "pre-Adamic flood" there remains no physical evidence for this event.

<< back
References

1.

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies. (John 8:44)
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (Revelation 12:9)
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gap.html

[Gman]

Wow, Bart nice stuff... Looks like you coughed up an encyclopedia here or something. One stop shopping...

Thanks,

G -

[John T]

Hi Bart,

I shall reiterate what Gman wrote:

"Wow" indeed!

However, with respect to your posts being intended as a reference for "source material" as you say, I could easily debate much of what you wrote from a perspective that it seems nobody on this site has little or any knowledge of (including dare I say, the likes of Richard Dawking).

This is quite apparent to me due to the lack of any serious discussion on my recent 'Catastrophism' topic, but I am not complaining.

God surely does work in mysterious ways.

Cheers

John

[Canuckster1127]

Thanks for the comments.

I'm not finished yet.

I felt it appropriate to put the material from our main board up first. I'll return and begin to include other more scientfic material on the issue as it progresses.

I've created a thread for YEC proponents to do the same as well.

Maybe over time, these two threads can serve as reference areas for those who maybe not as aware or as comfortable looking at the main boards.