Long long lives

[Silvertusk]

I think I am pretty ok with the majority of Genesis now - but so far nothing that I have heard or read, for me is adequate to explain how at the beginning of the old testament people had exceedingly long lifes - up to a thousands years. The rest of Genesis - to me - matches up very nicely with the Day-Age interpretation and Literary interpretations - but this is still a stumbling block for me - and pretty much the only one left now.

Can anyone help. Can we really believe that people used to live that long many years agao?

God Bless

Silvertusk

[bizzt]

That is a hard Stumbling Block huh... Sometimes because we are unsure of something you have to rely on your Faith. Unfortunately not everything in the Bible can be Scientific and we have to rely on Faith at some point about the things the Bible Says. Maybe someone else has a better answer?

[Canuckster1127]

Best Answer I have for it is that something took place at the flood in terms of change in environment, nutrition, filtering of the sun's rays etc. but the Bible is not clear as to what.

On a smaller scale, we've seen some radical changes in this area in the past 100 years.

About 100 years ago the average life span in the US was about 48 years.

Since then, we've made a lot of changes in terms of sanitation, nutrition and medical treatment of previously untreatable diseases. So, life span is now on average up over 70 years.

Obviously on scale, this change is much higher in terms of pre and post flood. But there may be elements like this at work.

A popular explanation with YEC is the presence of a water canopy and filtering a UV rays etc.

This has pretty much been shown to be impossible when you factor in atmospheric pressure, temperature etc. If a water canopy existed to the extent necessary to explain the flood, then we'd have had conditions on the earth similar to what is on Venus in terms of heat etc. It doesn't add up.

There are some who look at the life-spans and see the years there as months, but that presents new problems and I don't believe it is a good explanation. The ambiguity in terms of the Hebrew words in that instance does not allow for it, although I've not studied that issue thoroughly.

[sandy_mcd]

The first question you have to answer is "How do people die of old age?" When you know what determines the maximum life span of a human, then you can think of ways things might have been different in the past (as well as ways of changing them in the future).

It is vital to distinguish between the "average life span" and the "maximum life span". While it is true that life expectancy has been going up (primarily due to lower infant and child mortality - think about what that will do to an average value), the maximum life span has not changed much over the same period of time.

In ancient Rome average life span was 22 years, but by the mid−1800s the typical North American lived to be 40. Today, people in the most developed countries have an average life span of about 80. Reduction of infant mortality has accounted for most of the increased longevity, but since the 1960s mortality rates among those over 80 years has been decreasing by about 1.5% per year. Maximum life span for humans, however, has remained about 115−120 all through known history. The oldest-ever person was Jeanne Calment, a French woman who lived for 122 years and 164 days.

Advances in medicine, calorie restriction with adequate nutrition, or other interventions are said to have slowed the aging process.

The maximum life span of each species is different. These differences demonstrate the role of genetics in determining maximum life span ("rate of aging"). For goldfish, the record is 49; for mice, 4; for dogs, 29; for cats, 34; for horses, 62; for elephants, 78; for humans, 122. The longest-lived animals have been variously described as whales (about 210 years) and tortoises (255 years). Although considered fiction for a time, recent research has indicated that bowhead whales recently killed still had harpoons in their bodies from the 1790's, which, along with analysis of amino acids, has indicated a maximum life span so far of 211 years [2]. Birds and squirrels rarely live to their maximum life span, usually dying of accidents and disease. Grazing animals show wear-and-tear to their teeth to the point where they can no longer eat, and they die of starvation.

The maximum life span of most species has not been accurately determined because the data collection has been minimal and the number of species studied in captivity (or by monitoring in the wild) has been small. Maximum life span is usually longer for species that are larger, can fly and have larger brains. Of the approximately 30,000 genes in the human genome, it is estimated that only 2% of these are different from those of a chimpanzee, which has half the estimated maximum life span of a human. The difference in longevity could be due to as few as a hundred genes or less, however there may be other factors which influence the life span of chimpanzees.

Identical twins tend to die within 3 years of each other, whereas fraternal twins tend to die within 6 years. Aging theories associated with DNA include programmed aging (or programmed aging-resistance) and theories that link aging with DNA damage/mutation or DNA repair capability.

Plants tend to come in annuals, biennials, and perennials. The longer-lived perennials, woody-stemmed plants such as trees and bushes, often live for hundreds and even thousands of years. The oldest-known tree is the bristlecone pine, at 4700 years; it has been claimed that creosote bushes live for 11,000 years, but claims of this nature are based on estimates, rather than actual ring counts.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Long, long lifespan?

The lifespans in Genesis only seem long because they measured time in dog-years back then.

For instance, I am 343 dog-years old as I write this.

I have been married 119 dog-years. (My wife says time spent with me seems long.)

FL

[sandy_mcd]

The lifespans in Genesis only seem long because they measured time in dog-years back then.
For instance, I am 343 dog-years old as I write this.

And have a dog brain?
The truth is much simpler: Most of these patriarchs were obviously lawyers (who else would use so many "begat"s?) and the lifespans are based on the number of hours they billed.

[Jbuza]

I'm not sure how you can accept that God can create all that we know but have a problem with him being able to effect changes to his creation.

I am convinced that the long lifespan is actual and true based upon my beliefs, but I have always been intrigued by life span and reptiles. IF you look it the gigantic size of dinosaurs, and realize that lizards grow their entire lives, you might begin to wonder if these gigantic lizards are not so different from some modern reptiles, but simply longer lived.

I realize that some species are extinct, but take for instance the Komodo dragon which reaches 10 feet and 350 pounds in fifty years; If you saw a komodo dragon pre-flood that was older by a factor of ten, might he be 100 feet long and 3500 pounds? What about crocs, iguanas, etc? Also perhaps he would be larger than ten times, as his prey choices would expand.

There most certianly is evidence to suggest that pre-flood was a different time, and not under the same "rules" as we are now.

Even Evolution would suggest that our past was different than today. While they would make numerous predictions based upon uniform asumptions, I think there is evidence to suggest that lifespans COULD have been longer.

[Canuckster1127]

The lifespans in Genesis only seem long because they measured time in dog-years back then.
For instance, I am 343 dog-years old as I write this.

And have a dog brain?
The truth is much simpler: Most of these patriarchs were obviously lawyers (who else would use so many "begat"s?) and the lifespans are based on the number of hours they billed.

Now THAT is funny!

One of my favorite jokes is about the attorney who appears at the Pearly Gates in front of St Peter. St Peter checks the books and says to the lawyer, "You're here early. You weren't supposed to be here for another 20 years. ..... Ah, I see ..... somebody moved it up based on your billable hours ...."

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Lawyer jokes and big lizards, Ha!

I give a plausible explanation to the long lifespans in Genesis and you people just ignore it. I am sure that once National Geographic finishes translating the Gospel of Judas I will be vindicated: the Truth about dog-years is certainly in there!

FL

[tyler_demerhcant]

I'm not sure how you can accept that God can create all that we know but have a problem with him being able to effect changes to his creation.

I am convinced that the long lifespan is actual and true based upon my beliefs, but I have always been intrigued by life span and reptiles. IF you look it the gigantic size of dinosaurs, and realize that lizards grow their entire lives, you might begin to wonder if these gigantic lizards are not so different from some modern reptiles, but simply longer lived.

I realize that some species are extinct, but take for instance the Komodo dragon which reaches 10 feet and 350 pounds in fifty years; If you saw a komodo dragon pre-flood that was older by a factor of ten, might he be 100 feet long and 3500 pounds? What about crocs, iguanas, etc? Also perhaps he would be larger than ten times, as his prey choices would expand.

There most certianly is evidence to suggest that pre-flood was a different time, and not under the same "rules" as we are now.

Even Evolution would suggest that our past was different than today. While they would make numerous predictions based upon uniform asumptions, I think there is evidence to suggest that lifespans COULD have been longer.

Thanks for this, I agree very much.

I have seen scientific explanations.

If the water was in the sky before the flood, then the sun would have been extrodinarily magnified... I have seen about it in a documentary once that supports the lizard theary. I like this very much.

Also, I do believe there is a place in the bible were god said that no man would exceed 130 years.

I will post again.

[Silvertusk]

That is a hard Stumbling Block huh... Sometimes because we are unsure of something you have to rely on your Faith. Unfortunately not everything in the Bible can be Scientific and we have to rely on Faith at some point about the things the Bible Says. Maybe someone else has a better answer?

Paul says to test everything and hold onto the Good. That is what I am doing. I understand the theology behind the long lives and why God shortened them - but it is hard to believe that we did used to live a 1000 years - when there is no evidence apart from the Bible. Don't get me wrong - I am taking this on faith that all will be made clear - but in the meantime - what is the harm in a little investigation.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

[bizzt]

That is a hard Stumbling Block huh... Sometimes because we are unsure of something you have to rely on your Faith. Unfortunately not everything in the Bible can be Scientific and we have to rely on Faith at some point about the things the Bible Says. Maybe someone else has a better answer?

Paul says to test everything and hold onto the Good. That is what I am doing. I understand the theology behind the long lives and why God shortened them - but it is hard to believe that we did used to live a 1000 years - when there is no evidence apart from the Bible. Don't get me wrong - I am taking this on faith that all will be made clear - but in the meantime - what is the harm in a little investigation.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

I totally agree there is no harm in a little investigation. However how far can one investigate until they start Speculating?