Yes, a coral reef with all its life is very complex, and has a beauty to match that is wonderfully designed. BUT, I think you're missing what I'm saying Kenny.Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:15 pmI think it is a poor argument to make because there is so much about the Universe we just don’t know. Just because in our daily lives, everything complex seems to have been created by an intelligent being doesn’t mean that is the case for the entire Universe. That would be like reading a book in a Library, and assuming all the other books there are like the one you just read.Kurieuo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:56 pmI actually thought that a very relevant question. Wondered why many more people don't ask of it skeptics who often say complex things don't need creating by an intelligent being. I think it's a good question Rick.Kenny wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:11 pmIf you are going to make the argument that because I am unable to prove this, that it is therefore impossible throughout the entirety of the Universe; that is a very poor argument to make.
It gets one thinking about how exactly something might be "complex" i.e., what counts as complexity. That's a good thing to think about--unpacking the language of what is meant by terms used--even if one disagrees with the conclusion of any arguments based upon such.
BTW a Coral Reef looks pretty complex to me; what do you think?
https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/ ... fr=yfp-t-s
Athiest: Nothing is designed.
Theist: Everything is designed.
Each begin at different ends of the spectrum, so then no discussion can be realistically had if the purpose it so make a person see a conclusion opposite to their starting premise. However, why can't the details be discussed?
Both sides simply "parley" with each other over the argument, to discuss the terms and details surrounding such. What for example, is complexity? Is there a type of complexity that we could agree upon as being only attributable to an agent (e.g., a watch)? If we didn't witness any such agents, is there a way we could know? What signs do we look for? Why is it complex computer code requires agency, and yet complex biological code does not? Is it merely because agent/s are seen for one and not the other? Is there something more than could be drawn and/or said? These are fairly neutral questions.