The Strongest Argument for God

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Kenny
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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#181

Post by Kenny » Sat May 25, 2019 9:49 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:17 pm
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:54 pm
I think Kenny and atheists like him need to stay in a Haunted House.There are haunted houses and places in every State of America where people have experienced ghosts,spirits,orbs flying through the air,paranormal activity,poltergeist activity,etc. People even hire Christian experts and mediums to try to free their home of ghosts/spirits.Yet atheists don't seem to believe it. So they should research haunted places in their State and stay in one.Nothing supernatural Kenny? Why don't you stay in a haunted house? I think you should.

Haunted Locations. Here is a series of videos of haunted places in every State of America Kenny.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 76QWs9vASg
Are you familiar with James Randi and his Million dollar challenge?
Known skeptic James Randi offered $100,000.00 for anyone who could demonstrate proof of supernatural, or paranormal activity under observed conditions. He began this challenge in the 1960’s and though countless people have accepted his challenge, they have all been proven to be fraud. For over 50 years not a single person has been able to prove him wrong and collect his money.
Since you obviously believe in the Supernatural, my question to you is; why do you suppose nobody has been able to shut this man up and take his money? How come one of the owners of some of these haunted houses you speak of haven’t invited Randi and his crew to set up shop and see some paranormal activity and be proven wrong?
It is irrelevant to me, because if you'd really stay in a haunted house you'd see James Randi does'nt know what he is talking about.Do some research because there are haunted locations in your State.You need to experience a ghost,etc so that you know people are not just making it up.People are not hiring experts, mediums,etc to free their house of these things for nothing and you need to experience them yourself.
I live in Washington State; I didn’t see one for Washington State on the link you provided. But how do these things work? Who owns these “haunted houses”? How am I supposed to spend a night there? Is the owner of the house in the business of providing paranormal activity for a small fee for anyone willing to pay the price of a one night stay? What happens if I don’t see any ghosts? Do I get my money back?
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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#182

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon May 27, 2019 7:31 am

So when you say “science is not in the business of the non-material world”, that is like saying science is not in the business of studying that which does not exist.
No, it means that science is not in the business of studying what it can't observe OR has the tools to study.

Look, scientists hypothesis what they can't see all the time.
That is a big part of science.
BUT they do that based on the observable. material world, they live in, "assuming" that what works "here", works "there".

Science speaks of multiple dimensions and parallel universes and all sorts of things that are NOT part of THIS material world, right?

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#183

Post by Kenny » Mon May 27, 2019 10:11 pm

So when you say “science is not in the business of the non-material world”, that is like saying science is not in the business of studying that which does not exist.
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:31 am
No, it means that science is not in the business of studying what it can't observe OR has the tools to study.
Can you give an example of something known to exist that scientists are not in the business of studying?
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:31 am
Look, scientists hypothesis what they can't see all the time.
That is a big part of science.
BUT they do that based on the observable. material world, they live in, "assuming" that what works "here", works "there".

Science speaks of multiple dimensions and parallel universes and all sorts of things that are NOT part of THIS material world, right?
I have never heard of a scientific theory that includes multiple dimensions and parallel universes, those are just speculations people make, not any part of a scientific theory.
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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#184

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 am

I said Hypothesis Kenny.

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#185

Post by Kenny » Tue May 28, 2019 8:58 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 am
I said Hypothesis Kenny.
I asked if you could give an example of something known to exist that science is not in the business of studying. You responded by listing something that is NOT known to exist.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#186

Post by RickD » Wed May 29, 2019 5:14 am

Kenny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:58 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 am
I said Hypothesis Kenny.
I asked if you could give an example of something known to exist that science is not in the business of studying. You responded by listing something that is NOT known to exist.
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0 ... science_12
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#187

Post by Kenny » Wed May 29, 2019 5:48 am

RickD wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 5:14 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:58 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 am
I said Hypothesis Kenny.
I asked if you could give an example of something known to exist that science is not in the business of studying. You responded by listing something that is NOT known to exist.
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0 ... science_12
Yeah; science doesn’t deal with thoughts that only exists in your head like judgments, or morality; stuff that only exists within the context of human thought. As far as the spirits and the supernatural, those things are not known to exist. If there were empirical evidence that they did, is there any doubt that people would be using the system of science to study it?
RickD wrote
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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#188

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 29, 2019 6:26 am

Kenny wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:58 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:31 am
I said Hypothesis Kenny.
I asked if you could give an example of something known to exist that science is not in the business of studying. You responded by listing something that is NOT known to exist.
I must have misunderstood, sorry.
Science, eventually, studies ( or tries to) everything that is observable.
As I said before, science is NOT in the business of studying the which can't DIRECTLY be observed ( clarification) or is not part of the material universe.
It can postulate and hypothesis, but not study.
It can't study because, be definition, study requires: a detailed investigation and analysis of a subject or situation.
Which requires observation.

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#189

Post by Philip » Wed May 29, 2019 7:08 am

Ken: As far as the spirits and the supernatural, those things are not known to exist. If there were empirical evidence that they did, is there any doubt that people would be using the system of science to study it?
:brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:

Not to mention: :beat:

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#190

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 29, 2019 9:33 am

Perhaps this needs to be reiterated:

The Scientific Method:

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.


Operative word: OBSERVATION.

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#191

Post by RickD » Wed May 29, 2019 9:41 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:33 am
Perhaps this needs to be reiterated:

The Scientific Method:

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.


Operative word: OBSERVATION. OBTUSE.
There, fixed it for ya.
;)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#192

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 29, 2019 11:39 am

LOL. :lol:

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#193

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed May 29, 2019 5:05 pm

Kenny wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 9:49 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:35 pm
Kenny wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:17 pm
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:54 pm
I think Kenny and atheists like him need to stay in a Haunted House.There are haunted houses and places in every State of America where people have experienced ghosts,spirits,orbs flying through the air,paranormal activity,poltergeist activity,etc. People even hire Christian experts and mediums to try to free their home of ghosts/spirits.Yet atheists don't seem to believe it. So they should research haunted places in their State and stay in one.Nothing supernatural Kenny? Why don't you stay in a haunted house? I think you should.

Haunted Locations. Here is a series of videos of haunted places in every State of America Kenny.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 76QWs9vASg
Are you familiar with James Randi and his Million dollar challenge?
Known skeptic James Randi offered $100,000.00 for anyone who could demonstrate proof of supernatural, or paranormal activity under observed conditions. He began this challenge in the 1960’s and though countless people have accepted his challenge, they have all been proven to be fraud. For over 50 years not a single person has been able to prove him wrong and collect his money.
Since you obviously believe in the Supernatural, my question to you is; why do you suppose nobody has been able to shut this man up and take his money? How come one of the owners of some of these haunted houses you speak of haven’t invited Randi and his crew to set up shop and see some paranormal activity and be proven wrong?
It is irrelevant to me, because if you'd really stay in a haunted house you'd see James Randi does'nt know what he is talking about.Do some research because there are haunted locations in your State.You need to experience a ghost,etc so that you know people are not just making it up.People are not hiring experts, mediums,etc to free their house of these things for nothing and you need to experience them yourself.
I live in Washington State; I didn’t see one for Washington State on the link you provided. But how do these things work? Who owns these “haunted houses”? How am I supposed to spend a night there? Is the owner of the house in the business of providing paranormal activity for a small fee for anyone willing to pay the price of a one night stay? What happens if I don’t see any ghosts? Do I get my money back?
It sounds like you are interested.I think, if you really are interested? You should research them.If you experienced a paranormal event how would it change your perception as an atheist? Would it open you up to the spirit realm and the supernatural? From my experience dealing with atheists they tend to reject,deny and explain away any and all evidence for anything having to do with the supernatural. This is why I really believe atheists should experience a haunted location.Even if you don't become a Christian you just might realize atheism is too empty.

Oh yeah. Have you thought about how atheism only offers you death and that is it? How can you choose to be apart of a group that has no evidence atheism is true and even admits that they do not have to have any evidence to know they are correct to live their life as an atheist and then are just offered death and that is it,when they die? I mean that is very empty,so how can you put your hope in it?

I know you don't know much about religion and other gods. But I'd choose Jesus over all over gods just based on the afterlife he offers to those who believe in him compared to any of the other afterlife's other gods offer. I realized this by researching other religions and actually debating people of other religions and this is one argument I use when I debate them. I talk about the afterlife Jesus offers and try to show them that what he offers is far better than what their god offers.And so when I think about atheism and how it just offers just death and nothing more it is the most boring and empty afterlife of all. So how can you put your hope in it?
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#194

Post by RickD » Wed May 29, 2019 5:47 pm

ACB wrote:
Oh yeah. Have you thought about how atheism only offers you death and that is it? How can you choose to be apart of a group that has no evidence atheism is true and even admits that they do not have to have any evidence to know they are correct to live their life as an atheist and then are just offered death and that is it,when they die? I mean that is very empty,so how can you put your hope in it?
The underlined is a really good point. Kenny is so hung up on evidence, yet where's the evidence that God doesn't exist?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

abelcainsbrother
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Re: The Strongest Argument for God

#195

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed May 29, 2019 6:46 pm

RickD wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 5:47 pm
ACB wrote:
Oh yeah. Have you thought about how atheism only offers you death and that is it? How can you choose to be apart of a group that has no evidence atheism is true and even admits that they do not have to have any evidence to know they are correct to live their life as an atheist and then are just offered death and that is it,when they die? I mean that is very empty,so how can you put your hope in it?
The underlined is a really good point. Kenny is so hung up on evidence, yet where's the evidence that God doesn't exist?
Perhaps Kenny needs to ask an atheist for evidence atheism is true.Because if he did he would see that they will explain to him why atheists don't have to have any evidence to know they are correct to live their life as an atheist.I laugh everytime I see it because these people claim to go by evidence and yet they don't when it comes to atheism.They give only atheists a pass for having no evidence but expect evidence from everybody else and then when you give them evidence they reject,deny and explain it all away like there is no evidence,when really it is they who have no evidence.If they were going by evidence they would not be an atheist even if not a Christian based on no evidence.Atheists are the only group I can think of that is proud of having no evidence
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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