B. W. wrote: Audie wrote: Nessa wrote: Audie wrote:
Its in the subject heading.
I tried to not make it too complicated...
It isnt comoplicated, its vague.
Possibly it's vague.
But then so are alot of posts.
If you dont care to say what you mean by what is "behind" such things, that is fine.
Whatever your exact intent, I hope you know better than to take BW's prejudiced bit of cant as representative of anything other than his chosen view of people he does not know.
How can I be wrong on this Audie?
Because all is relative anyways? Isn't it, you and others stated this effect any times...on this forum...
Did I say something that upset you or struck a nerve? That was not my intent.
My true intent was to simply to show in as few words as possible what I have encountered over the years from secular humanist atheist types, just as I, myself, once was so many years ago.
Audie wrote: Nessa wrote: Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:As has been stated before, logically speaking, if what IS good or bad is relative or subjective then THERE BEING a good or bad is objective and absolute.
And, experience and reason and history and, well, pretty much anything you want, tells us that IS the case.
In short, while what is viewed/understood/thought of AS good or bad MAY be subjective but that there IS a good and bad, is not.
I'd certainly agree that there is
good and bad.
Nor sure if anything is absolutely good or absolutely bad; perhaps.*
In general we have degrees of, shades of grey, unforeseen and unintended consequences,what is good for one side is bad for the other, and so on. "Road to hell paved with good intentions".
How do you see the relationship between "good and bad", and, "pain and suffering"?
*an example of something absolutely good of bad, or a moral absolute would be welcome here. Or maybe not so much an example, but a general rule that could be applied.
Torturing a baby or molestering one.
Is there a time when that could be considered good?
I was looking for a general rule, not specifics.
If btw, you agree with BW and think that I am such as he describes, we can quit now.
Again I was not describing you personally and in no way was attacking you. Why do you get so defensive - did I say something that struck a nerve? Not my intent...
So since you think I was doing wrong, then how could this be wrong if all is relative and there is no standard weights by which to judge good or bad?
I will respond here rather than to subsequent post.
Firs:, No, on the "never can be wrong". I learn things by being wrong. If anyone here is doing "can't be wrong" it is our friends who think their bible reading and philosophy give them access to unassailable truth.
Prejudice against God. No. I asked abour your childhood exposure to religion as you srike me as one who was never and knows not what it actually means to be atheist. "Give us a child till he is 3, he will be a Catholic for life". (apocryphal or not the concept is real).
For me to be prejudiced against Batboy, Thos, Bigfoot, or the Fountain of Youth is equally nonsensical.
Whatever or however others think, that is me.
You talk of "no actual point". Flip it around. Why must anyone concoct a god in order to find meaning in life? YOUR chosen god may be real, but then all others imagined as giving meaning to life are illusory; I think they all are.
Other living things seem to find some sort of point in living; many are really quite insistent on it!
We have those same qualitiss, bred into us by ever so many generations that survived to have offspring, because of will to live.
We like to think, for pretty good reason that there is more to us than to a wombat. So we have
more reasons. I'd really like to live to see grandchildren. Who quits readingva book, coz there is
a thousand years from now, what difference will it make if the butler did it?
Why bother to exist, you ask? Why be the best you can if it is just ashes to ashes?
Do you address this question: "Why bother to play a Beethoven concerto, the last note fades, and it is gone."
Let me know how that works out to being different for a Buddhist, Moslem Christian, or atheist,
if you see a difference.
"Sole role is sex etc" seems such an odd thing for you to even think of.
"Create own religion"
Isnt that what people (the creative ones at least) have been doing, many thousands of times over
world wide and through time?
It isnt what atheists do. Again, I see how younever learned how an actual atheist thinks. The difference in our cultural backgrounds in profound, you will no more really get it about how atheism
is than you can step into a woman's shoes, be she Chinese or any other.
Ethics and morality were the objects of many a lesson or discussion for me, growing up.
As jac pointed out, it is about human nature. You dont need a god to discern these things
I've a deep cultural tradition to draw from, and the guidance of a most remarable woman, my Mom.
And, I've a brain as you graciously pointed out.
You cant just read a recipe book and then live a moral life. You have to think. Mom walked away fro a considerable fortune and position of power because her etical standards could not let her take part in
what that entailed. That is not following the herd, relying on others to say what is right.
Be it noted that atheists are under represented in American prisons-so they say. Note that religious justification has led to countless atrocities, with good religiousfolk looking to their compadres left right and behind, then book in hand, committing, yes, atrocities.
We all need to think for ourselves; you seem curiously opposed to doing that.
"Right for me, not for you". What is the pilot of a fighter plane to think or do?
Sometimes right and wrong does all depend.
Now, you asked if something happened that I dont see what life is really all about?
I dont think I understand rhe question. I am no dewey- eyed dreamer. I survived a shattering experience, an ordeal such as few ever survive. I blame nobody and nothing for it. The guy is a sicko,
but he didnt choose such an ugly life. I didnt decide anything about "god" as a result, I asked no god to help me during or since.
What does your question mean?
Bottom line-"No hope, no reason, ..."
I stood on a balcony high above the street in Hong Kong, and thought long about
stepping off. Only so much misrey can one take, but I chose to take a little more, a great deal more.
So no, I guess you are simply wrong on that no reason or hope thing. It is a bit of a mantra that
the religious use. Why? I can think of a possible reason or two. Uncouple it from there actually being a god, if you can, and then try answering.
Plz excuse the poor typing and organization. Im a a Starbux just off Wall St or maybe this is wall st.
Writing with rablet amid a lot of commotion, waiting for my date.
Hope this makes sense, looking farward to your pov on the above.
Edit: your moral compas was in good order as an "atheist", in far better shape than that of the
ostensibly / nominally Christian racists all about, . How would you explain that? Id be intrrested in your thoughts.