What is behind suffering?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Nessa
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What is behind suffering?

#1

Post by Nessa » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:29 pm

Is suffering just an impersonal force? A consequence of something? Bad luck?

Please explain to me the evolution of suffering and pain

.
Last edited by Nessa on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#2

Post by RickD » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:50 pm

I believe this is the beginning of man's suffering:
Genesis 2:22

God created woman, and man's suffering began.
:dig:
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Re: What is behind suffering?

#3

Post by Audie » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:25 pm

Nessa wrote:Is suffering just an impersonal force? A concequence of something? Bad luck?

Please explain to me the evolution of suffering and pain

.

If there is nrrvous system there will be pain. What's to explain?

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#4

Post by Nessa » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:56 pm

Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:Is suffering just an impersonal force? A concequence of something? Bad luck?

Please explain to me the evolution of suffering and pain

.

If there is nrrvous system there will be pain. What's to explain?
I guess it depends on what sort of pain. Not all pain is physical etc..

Do you think all pain is easy to explain away?

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#5

Post by Nessa » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:30 pm

So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#6

Post by Audie » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:17 pm

Nessa wrote:So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#7

Post by Nessa » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:29 pm

Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.
Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#8

Post by patrick » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:24 pm

From a naturalistic POV, I think suffering is seen as an indicator of an animal being stuck in nonideal conditions. For instance, octopi evolved to behave in certain ways that we don't yet fully understand, so when placed in a tank for study they are always seeking a way to escape. Whether these ways of being are actually "necessary" to the animal's survival is neither here nor there, as they haven't adapted to the new environment. Similarly, we as humans also have certain biological directives, and when these are not met, we experience suffering, even if such directives seem irrational.

Also, pain at the most basic level can be defined as something where one thinks "I don't want this." And "don't want" is categorically separate from bad. Pain itself is not good or bad, as good/bad in natural terms is only defined in terms of social contracts.


Not an atheist, but just getting the ball rolling here...

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#9

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:21 am

Nessa wrote:Is suffering just an impersonal force? A consequence of something? Bad luck?

Please explain to me the evolution of suffering and pain

.
Pain and suffering are two different things, though they both serve a purpose.

Pain can be viewed from the purely physiological POV or from the psychological POV or both ( ideally both).
The purpose of pain is to teach the human organism that which is good and that which is bad for it, to a degree.
It is a warning system and an education system.
Simply put, if it hurts don't do it, avoid it, don't eat it, etc, etc.
Pain can also be a sign of something beneficial ( the pain of sore muscles from a workout for example).
Our ability to understand, to tolerate pain is part of a constant exposure to pain.
The evolutionary aspect of pain is that feeling pain and understanding pain increase the chances of the organism to survive and procreate ( pass on the genes).

Suffering is an emotional and intellectual response to pain ( physical and/or psychological).
Without pain, there can be no suffering and the more evolved the species the more it has the capacity to understand suffering and, especially, share in suffering, ie: compassion.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#10

Post by Audie » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:55 am

Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.
Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#11

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:00 pm

Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.
Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.
When I intitally said good or bad it was said knowing many people think its relative and subjective.
So was meaning it on those terms since this is a question for atheists.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#12

Post by Audie » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:27 pm

Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:So if its just the nervous system, is pain good or bad?

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.
Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.
When I intitally said good or bad it was said knowing many people think its relative and subjective.
So was meaning it on those terms since this is a question for atheists.

uh ok so what is the question?

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#13

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:55 pm

Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:

We sure do not think alike!

Pain is integral to the existence of a nrrvous sydtem, "good" or "bad", how does that even apply ?

Psychological pain is integral to the existence of a mind.

I find it odd that this is somehow made into a religious matter.
Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.
When I intitally said good or bad it was said knowing many people think its relative and subjective.
So was meaning it on those terms since this is a question for atheists.

uh ok so what is the question?
Its in the subject heading.
I tried to not make it too complicated...

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#14

Post by Audie » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:46 pm

Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote: Are you saying good and bad doesnt exist outside of religious terms?
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.
When I intitally said good or bad it was said knowing many people think its relative and subjective.
So was meaning it on those terms since this is a question for atheists.

uh ok so what is the question?
Its in the subject heading.
I tried to not make it too complicated...
It isnt comoplicated, its vague.

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Re: What is behind suffering?

#15

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:03 pm

Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
Nessa wrote:
Audie wrote:
No, I tend to say what I mean.

I'm aware that many think that "good", "bad", morality, are given "of" God,
defined by same, and are without meaning except in reference to, etc.
I dont see it that way, but, who knows.

I would say that good and bad are relative.
When I intitally said good or bad it was said knowing many people think its relative and subjective.
So was meaning it on those terms since this is a question for atheists.

uh ok so what is the question?
Its in the subject heading.
I tried to not make it too complicated...
It isnt comoplicated, its vague.
Possibly it's vague.

But then so are alot of posts.

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