Tolstoy and belief

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Tolstoy and belief

#1

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue May 10, 2016 10:01 am

While not a fan of the website, the writer makes some interesting observations on his life VIA Tolstoy's Confessions:

http://www.rooshv.com/does-life-have-in ... ief-in-god

EX:
Leo Tolstoy, who wrote a book called A Confession to describe his existential crisis and what he did in an attempt to resolve it.

Today or tomorrow sickness and death will come (they had come already) to those I love or to me; nothing will remain but stench and worms. Sooner or later my affairs, whatever they may be, will be forgotten, and I shall not exist. Then why go on making any effort? How can man fail to see this? And how go on living? That is what is surprising! One can only live while one is intoxicated with life; as soon as one is sober it is impossible not to see that it is all a mere fraud and a stupid fraud! That is precisely what it is: there is nothing either amusing or witty about it, it is simply cruel and stupid.

Back in his time of the 19th century, he saw four ways that people were handling this problem.

1. Ignorance. “It consists in not knowing, not understanding, that life is an evil and an absurdity. People of this sort — chiefly women, or very young or very dull people — have not yet understood that question of life which presented itself to Schopenhauer, Solomon, and Buddha.” Believers in God fit within this category.

2. Epicureanism and pleasure. “[This] is the way in which the majority of people of our circle make life possible for themselves. Their circumstances furnish them with more of welfare than of hardship, and their moral dullness makes it possible for them to forget that the advantage of their position is accidental, and that not everyone can have a thousand wives and palaces like Solomon.”

3. The “strength” to commit suicide. “Having understood the stupidity of the joke that has been played on them, and having understood that it is better to be dead than to be alive, and that it is best of all not to exist, they act accordingly and promptly end this stupid joke, since there are means: a rope round one’s neck, water, a knife to stick into one’s heart, or the trains on the railways.”

4. Weakness. “It consists in seeing the truth of the situation and yet clinging to life, knowing in advance that nothing can come of it. People of this kind know that death is better than life, but not having the strength to act rationally — to end the deception quickly and kill themselves — they seem to wait for something.”

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#2

Post by Kenny » Tue May 10, 2016 11:28 am

PaulSacramento wrote:While not a fan of the website, the writer makes some interesting observations on his life VIA Tolstoy's Confessions:

http://www.rooshv.com/does-life-have-in ... ief-in-god

EX:
Leo Tolstoy, who wrote a book called A Confession to describe his existential crisis and what he did in an attempt to resolve it.

Today or tomorrow sickness and death will come (they had come already) to those I love or to me; nothing will remain but stench and worms. Sooner or later my affairs, whatever they may be, will be forgotten, and I shall not exist. Then why go on making any effort? How can man fail to see this? And how go on living? That is what is surprising! One can only live while one is intoxicated with life; as soon as one is sober it is impossible not to see that it is all a mere fraud and a stupid fraud! That is precisely what it is: there is nothing either amusing or witty about it, it is simply cruel and stupid.

Back in his time of the 19th century, he saw four ways that people were handling this problem.

1. Ignorance. “It consists in not knowing, not understanding, that life is an evil and an absurdity. People of this sort — chiefly women, or very young or very dull people — have not yet understood that question of life which presented itself to Schopenhauer, Solomon, and Buddha.” Believers in God fit within this category.

2. Epicureanism and pleasure. “[This] is the way in which the majority of people of our circle make life possible for themselves. Their circumstances furnish them with more of welfare than of hardship, and their moral dullness makes it possible for them to forget that the advantage of their position is accidental, and that not everyone can have a thousand wives and palaces like Solomon.”

3. The “strength” to commit suicide. “Having understood the stupidity of the joke that has been played on them, and having understood that it is better to be dead than to be alive, and that it is best of all not to exist, they act accordingly and promptly end this stupid joke, since there are means: a rope round one’s neck, water, a knife to stick into one’s heart, or the trains on the railways.”

4. Weakness. “It consists in seeing the truth of the situation and yet clinging to life, knowing in advance that nothing can come of it. People of this kind know that death is better than life, but not having the strength to act rationally — to end the deception quickly and kill themselves — they seem to wait for something.”
Poor guy! He is obviously depressed. Hope he gets help.

K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#3

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue May 10, 2016 11:29 am

You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
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neo-x (Tue May 10, 2016 12:16 pm)

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#4

Post by crackpot » Tue May 10, 2016 11:57 am

PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Young people today are not erudite. Educated, yes but not erudite. They are uncultured, ignorant and easily led astray.

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#5

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue May 10, 2016 12:19 pm

crackpot wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Young people today are not erudite. Educated, yes but not erudite. They are uncultured, ignorant and easily led astray.
Ok, but the article actually says who Tolstoy was.

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#6

Post by crackpot » Tue May 10, 2016 12:37 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:Ok, but the article actually says who Tolstoy was.
Not really. There's just a quick reference about "Back in his time of the 19th century". It's easily overlooked. Especially if you haven't got a clue about who or what Tolstoy was.

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#7

Post by Kenny » Tue May 10, 2016 1:04 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Was he a person incapable of being depressed?

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#8

Post by B. W. » Tue May 10, 2016 1:55 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:While not a fan of the website, the writer makes some interesting observations on his life VIA Tolstoy's Confessions:

http://www.rooshv.com/does-life-have-in ... ief-in-god
Even in War and Peace and his other works, one finds the same struggle within his protagonist. He usually has four, maybe five of the classes mention in his works.

Reminds me of one basically in love one's own self - so unwilling to acknowledge God and find purpose because his reason get's in the way. Also remind me of the stages of reason Christopher Hitchens went through as well.
-
-
-

P.S. you think the majority of college or high school youth even read such authors as Tolstoy, Dickens, etc and etc these days?
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

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Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#9

Post by crackpot » Tue May 10, 2016 2:13 pm

B. W. wrote:P.S. you think the majority of college or high school youth even read such authors as Tolstoy, Dickens, etc and etc these days?


:pound:

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#10

Post by RickD » Tue May 10, 2016 4:27 pm

Guys,

Kenny was making a funny. You all need some help recognizing obvious sarcastic wit.

Btw,

Who is Tolstoy?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#11

Post by crackpot » Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 pm

RickD wrote:Kenny was making a funny. You all need some help recognizing obvious sarcastic wit.
Really?
RickD wrote:Who is Tolstoy?
A guy like Darwin. He wrote thick books nobody reads.

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#12

Post by RickD » Tue May 10, 2016 5:39 pm

There's nothing I like better than sitting in front of a roaring fire with a copy of War and Peace. You know a big fat book like that will feed a fire for hours.

-Emo Philips
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#13

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 11, 2016 6:59 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Was he a person incapable of being depressed?

Ken
Yes, yes he was.

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#14

Post by Kenny » Wed May 11, 2016 8:33 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Was he a person incapable of being depressed?

Ken
Yes, yes he was.
What was it about him that made him incapable of becoming depressed?

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Tolstoy and belief

#15

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 11, 2016 9:35 am

Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Kenny wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:You don't know who Tolstoy is ?
Was he a person incapable of being depressed?

Ken
Yes, yes he was.
What was it about him that made him incapable of becoming depressed?

Ken
He never visited this website and had to deal with skeptics that refuse to understand.
:eugeek:

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