Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#301

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:40 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:39 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:43 am


What do you mean eventually?
They eventually came into being ?
I mean the living creatures were not always intelligent and conscious but eventually evolved to become that way
So, intelligence came into being when humans became intelligent?
What do you mean by "came into being"?
It didn't exist before did it ?
I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

PaulSacramento
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#302

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am

Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:40 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:39 am

I mean the living creatures were not always intelligent and conscious but eventually evolved to become that way
So, intelligence came into being when humans became intelligent?
What do you mean by "came into being"?
It didn't exist before did it ?
I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
So where did it come from?

Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#303

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:40 am


So, intelligence came into being when humans became intelligent?
What do you mean by "came into being"?
It didn't exist before did it ?
I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
So where did it come from?
Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

Philip
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#304

Post by Philip » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:28 am

Ken: Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
There is ZERO intelligence without a thinking being. The assembling of they universe took a massive intelligence - nothing else can explain it!

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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#305

Post by PaulSacramento » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 am

Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 am
Kenny wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am

What do you mean by "came into being"?
It didn't exist before did it ?
I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
So where did it come from?
Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
So, intelligence is dependent on the existence of something intelligent and until something intelligent arises, there is no intelligence, correct?
So where did something intelligent come from?

Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#306

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:03 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:28 am
Ken: Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
There is ZERO intelligence without a thinking being. The assembling of they universe took a massive intelligence - nothing else can explain it!
Oh so the Universe was assembled now? How do you know this?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#307

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:05 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 am


It didn't exist before did it ?
I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
So where did it come from?
Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
So, intelligence is dependent on the existence of something intelligent and until something intelligent arises, there is no intelligence, correct?
So where did something intelligent come from?
Part of the material world that resulted from the expansion of the Singularity
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

Philip
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#308

Post by Philip » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:29 pm

Ken: Oh so the Universe was assembled now? How do you know this?
Because what occurred could not happen unaided by intelligence - That's how! What, Ken, do you think things of stupendous design and functionality can be the result of non-intelligent things that have the ability to self-assemble what our best minds can scarcely understand? See, I have a reason to believe that is impossible, because there is zero evidence of non-intelligent things having even simple abilities requiring intelligence. But I guess you have great faith in blind things being able to instantly start building a universe? Of of having ANY self-driven awareness or capabilities?

Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#309

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:21 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:29 pm
Ken: Oh so the Universe was assembled now? How do you know this?
Because what occurred could not happen unaided by intelligence - That's how! What, Ken, do you think things of stupendous design and functionality can be the result of non-intelligent things that have the ability to self-assemble what our best minds can scarcely understand? See, I have a reason to believe that is impossible, because there is zero evidence of non-intelligent things having even simple abilities requiring intelligence. But I guess you have great faith in blind things being able to instantly start building a universe? Of of having ANY self-driven awareness or capabilities?
Care to answer my question? Or are you just content answering questions nobody is asking.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

Philip
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#310

Post by Philip » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:52 pm

Ken: Care to answer my question? Or are you just content answering questions nobody is asking.
I DID answer it! The universe had a beginning of it's assemblage / organization - it's what physicists overwhelming say. Do you deny it?

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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#311

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:14 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:52 pm
Ken: Care to answer my question? Or are you just content answering questions nobody is asking.
I DID answer it! The universe had a beginning of it's assemblage / organization - it's what physicists overwhelming say. Do you deny it?
Yes I do deny. The Big Bang theory is what physicists overwhelming agree on. This theory claims the entirety of the Universe was comprised of a Singularity which eventually expanded to become what we now know as the Universe today. This theory does not claim the origin of the Universe, it does not claim how the Universe came into being, and it does not claim the Universe was assembled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#312

Post by Philip » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm

Ken, Big Bang cosmology most certainly does assert what happened at the beginning of the Big Bang. You'd have to be totally ignorant to not realize this! BTW, you might want to actually read the Wikipedia link you posted! And your singularity precedes the beginning events of the organization - do you not understand this?

Also, are you asserting that singularity itself is THE Intelligence behind the universe? Because you've been arguing that there was not intelligence required. The source is not the issue, at this point. What matters is you finally realize that what happened as the Big Bang began required intelligence - and for argument's sake, it matters not what we call it.

OK, Ken, in just seconds after the Big Bang Began (from http://why-sci.com): "Then, the period of standard cosmology began .01 seconds after the big bang. Here, protons and neutrons are fully formed. After a full second, the nuclei of light elements like hydrogen, helium, and lithium were forming..." Etc!

Ken, you need to try to catch up and actually read - don't just send links to Wikipedia stuff you clearly don't understand!

So, back to my questions - do you deny an intelligence was there before the Big Bang began? Do you think Singularity itself contained this Intelligence?

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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#313

Post by Kenny » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:33 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
Ken, Big Bang cosmology most certainly does assert what happened at the beginning of the Big Bang. You'd have to be totally ignorant to not realize this!
The big bang is the expansion of the Singularity. The beginning of the Big Bang would be when things began to expand right? So what are you claiming I do not understand?
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
BTW, you might want to actually read the Wikipedia link you posted! And your singularity precedes the beginning events of the organization - do you not understand this?
What Organization are you talking about? I don’t understand what you are saying here.
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
Also, are you asserting that singularity itself is THE Intelligence behind the universe?
When did I ever assert an intelligence behind the Universe? That sounds like something YOU would assert.
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
Because you've been arguing that there was not intelligence required. The source is not the issue, at this point. What matters is you finally realize that what happened as the Big Bang began required intelligence - and for argument's sake, it matters not what we call it.
Again; how do you know it required intelligence?
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
OK, Ken, in just seconds after the Big Bang Began (from http://why-sci.com): "Then, the period of standard cosmology began .01 seconds after the big bang. Here, protons and neutrons are fully formed. After a full second, the nuclei of light elements like hydrogen, helium, and lithium were forming..." Etc!
Again; other than faith, how do you know intelligence was involved?
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
Ken, you need to try to catch up and actually read - don't just send links to Wikipedia stuff you clearly don't understand!
What you are saying would make more sense if you were to actually point to something in the link I sent, that refutes anything I said.
Philip wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm
So, back to my questions - do you deny an intelligence was there before the Big Bang began? Do you think Singularity itself contained this Intelligence?
Again; I do not believe an intelligence was there before the Big Bang began; and neither does Science.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

PaulSacramento
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#314

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:42 am

Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:05 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 am

I don't believe intelligence existed before people existed.
So where did it come from?
Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
So, intelligence is dependent on the existence of something intelligent and until something intelligent arises, there is no intelligence, correct?
So where did something intelligent come from?
Part of the material world that resulted from the expansion of the Singularity
So intelligence is material?

Kenny
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Re: Top Ten Reasons I'm An Atheist

#315

Post by Kenny » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:16 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:42 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:05 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 am
Kenny wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:43 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am


So where did it come from?
Intelligence only exists in the context of something else. Without that something else, there is no intelligence; so when you ask where did intelligence come from, you are asking where did that something else that is described as intelligent (among other things) come from.
So, intelligence is dependent on the existence of something intelligent and until something intelligent arises, there is no intelligence, correct?
So where did something intelligent come from?
Part of the material world that resulted from the expansion of the Singularity
So intelligence is material?
No; intelligence is one of many descriptions of specific things that are material.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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