Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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RickD
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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#106

Post by RickD » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:06 am

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kenny wrote: I never ignored your evidence, I just didn't agree with it.

Ken
Shhhhh Kenny y:-$
We like ACB to think we don't ignore his "evidence". :mrgreen:
I dont ignore it, as, you know, such. I see it for what it is, then ignore it.
So, you don't ignore it but you do ignore it. :swhat:
I suspect you are rather like that.

Don't ignore mail until you see that it's junk. Then you ignore it.

Maybe even the phone, when its a robo call?

Possibly you eat, then you don't eat. Sleep, then don't sleep.

Read a ab-evidence, then ignore it.

No?
Audie,

Can I call you Gish?
These users liked this post by RickD:
Audie (Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:44 pm)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

abelcainsbrother
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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#107

Post by abelcainsbrother » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:53 pm

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Ken demanded proof from me while going on his opinion without proof and evidence.It is intellectual dishonesty which is why I demand the same proof and evidence that they do when it comes to God,they ignore our evidence while having none just going on their opinion or non-peer reviewed scientific ideas in some cases.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was said. I was very clear that it was NOT my opinion. I was just giving examples of what a person COULD believe. You made a claim, so I asked you to back it up. I have nothing to back up because I never made any claims.

Ken
Ken,it is impossible to reject the reasons I gave for why God is the most logical cause for Dark matter,as soon as you reject it,you are doing so based on your opinion without any evidence or logic behind it,just your biased opinion. You think that by rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe in God,you are somehow excused from wanting to get to the truth,but you are not excused,nobody is,unless they could careless what the truth is and are just going on opinions.I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.

Instead of just going on your biased opinion,while not caring or wanting to know and discover truth you should just realize that right now at this present time,with all of the scientific knowledge man has been able to gather,the evidence right now still points to God as the cause of everything in the Universe,not just dark matter,and rejecting this based on a biased opinion without having any reason to think otherwise is intellectual laziness.You can know the truth based on the knowledge we have so far but you have to be willing to accept it and you are not doing it for some reason.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#108

Post by Audie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:35 am

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote: Shhhhh Kenny y:-$
We like ACB to think we don't ignore his "evidence". :mrgreen:
I dont ignore it, as, you know, such. I see it for what it is, then ignore it.
So, you don't ignore it but you do ignore it. :swhat:
I suspect you are rather like that.

Don't ignore mail until you see that it's junk. Then you ignore it.

Maybe even the phone, when its a robo call?

Possibly you eat, then you don't eat. Sleep, then don't sleep.

Read a ab-evidence, then ignore it.

No?
Audie,

Can I call you Gish?
depends on what I can call you

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#109

Post by edwardmurphy » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:08 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
"I don't know" works just fine for anyone who isn't predisposed to put all unknowns in God's lap. Personally, I think that's an intellectually bankrupt position to take. It leads straight to a painfully silly God of the Gaps argument, and then you get pushed steadily back to your last remaining strongholds - death and the unknown mysteries of the Universe. Those two seem impregnable at the moment, but so what? There was a time when germs and lightning seemed impregnable. You're welcome make bold assertions from your bunker on the periphery of human knowledge, but your location sends a stronger message than your words.

Me, I'm content to wait and see what, if anything, researchers can figure out.

Also, your follow-up argument of "God did it! God did it! God did it! God did it! God did it!" is a waste of time. It's only going to be convincing to a believer, and they already believe.
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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#110

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:59 am

Addressing the "God of the gaps" argument:
I agree that simply saying "God did it" is not an answer and should never be given when we don't know how something came to be.
However, for a Christian and under the understanding of what the Christian notion of God is, it is actually a very feasible answer, at least as feasible as saying " That is how the universe or nature works".
Why?
Because the CHristian notion of God as the SOURCE and SUSTAINER of all means that ALL that is, IS because of God.
God is the source of all matter, anything that comes into being is caused by God. ANything that " moves" and "changes" or "alters" is moved By God.

So when a CHristian says the answer is God it is NOT because of a "god of the gaps" argument BUT because the very notion of what God is logically and reasonably leads us to the conclusion that it is God that is behind all this.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#111

Post by abelcainsbrother » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:13 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
"I don't know" works just fine for anyone who isn't predisposed to put all unknowns in God's lap. Personally, I think that's an intellectually bankrupt position to take. It leads straight to a painfully silly God of the Gaps argument, and then you get pushed steadily back to your last remaining strongholds - death and the unknown mysteries of the Universe. Those two seem impregnable at the moment, but so what? There was a time when germs and lightning seemed impregnable. You're welcome make bold assertions from your bunker on the periphery of human knowledge, but your location sends a stronger message than your words.

Me, I'm content to wait and see what, if anything, researchers can figure out.

Also, your follow-up argument of "God did it! God did it! God did it! God did it! God did it!" is a waste of time. It's only going to be convincing to a believer, and they already believe.
Please explain how "I don't know" is acceptable based on the knowledge man has been able to gain about what caused the Universe and everything in it.Because in order to hold to "I don't know" a person must ignore all of the evidence,logic and description of who the Christian God is in order to hold to "I don't know"." I don't know" is just based on a biased opinion that ignores the evidence in science and logical arguments for God being the cause. Nobody or noone gets a pass when it comes to what caused the Universe and everything in it. And just because "God did it" makes atheists and agnostics cringe does not mean they can reject it and all of the reasons to believe it in order to hold to a biased,no evidence based opinion.

Especially when we know scientifically that according to peer-reviewed science we know science is nowhere even close to proving or showing that there is no need for God even with science looking at everything in the Universe from a materialistic view-point in order to have some other cause for the Universe and instead based on the evidence God is still the most logical conclusion based on the evidence and who the Christian God is and what he can do.

So that if a person rejects "God did it" they have absolutely no reason to based on science and the knowledge man has about the Universe to reject it and have no logical reason to believe it is going to change anytime soon based on peer-reviewed science. So that for a person to reject God as the cause they are willingly ignoring science in order to reject God based on a biased opinion without any evidence or reason to believe it and this is why nobody or noone gets a pass and can claim "I don't know"
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#112

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:34 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
I dont ignore it, as, you know, such. I see it for what it is, then ignore it.
So, you don't ignore it but you do ignore it. :swhat:
I suspect you are rather like that.

Don't ignore mail until you see that it's junk. Then you ignore it.

Maybe even the phone, when its a robo call?

Possibly you eat, then you don't eat. Sleep, then don't sleep.

Read a ab-evidence, then ignore it.

No?
Audie,

Can I call you Gish?

depends on what I can call you
Call me Lǐ chá dé.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#113

Post by Audie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:56 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote: So, you don't ignore it but you do ignore it. :swhat:
I suspect you are rather like that.

Don't ignore mail until you see that it's junk. Then you ignore it.

Maybe even the phone, when its a robo call?

Possibly you eat, then you don't eat. Sleep, then don't sleep.

Read a ab-evidence, then ignore it.

No?
Audie,

Can I call you Gish?

depends on what I can call you
Call me Lǐ chá dé.
That is not very imaginative

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#114

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:02 pm

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
I suspect you are rather like that.

Don't ignore mail until you see that it's junk. Then you ignore it.

Maybe even the phone, when its a robo call?

Possibly you eat, then you don't eat. Sleep, then don't sleep.

Read a ab-evidence, then ignore it.

No?
Audie,

Can I call you Gish?

depends on what I can call you
Call me Lǐ chá dé.
That is not very imaginative
I bet you had to google it! :rotfl:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#115

Post by Kenny » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:11 pm

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Ken demanded proof from me while going on his opinion without proof and evidence.It is intellectual dishonesty which is why I demand the same proof and evidence that they do when it comes to God,they ignore our evidence while having none just going on their opinion or non-peer reviewed scientific ideas in some cases.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was said. I was very clear that it was NOT my opinion. I was just giving examples of what a person COULD believe. You made a claim, so I asked you to back it up. I have nothing to back up because I never made any claims.

Ken
abelcainsbrother wrote: Ken,it is impossible to reject the reasons I gave for why God is the most logical cause for Dark matter,
I disagree! I've rejected many of your claims and I have yet to do anything that could be considered Impossible.
abelcainsbrother wrote: as soon as you reject it,you are doing so based on your opinion without any evidence or logic behind it,just your biased opinion.
I rejected your claims because you have yet to provide any credible evidence to support your claim
abelcainsbrother wrote: You think that by rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe in God,you are somehow excused from wanting to get to the truth,but you are not excused,nobody is,unless they could careless what the truth is and are just going on opinions.I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
I may not know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer when presented with one. Here is how I see it; if you are trying to convince me that A+B=C, you need to provide evidence to my satisfaction that C is the correct answer if you expect me to be convinced.
If I reject your claim of C as the correct answer, I will explain in detail why I have rejected your answer as the correct one. But because I have rejected your claim, it doesn't mean I have the right answer and it doesn't mean I have no interest in knowing the correct answer; all it means is your answer does not sound realistic to me. So when I say I don't know, it isn't a cop-out, I am just being honest in saying I may not know the right answer, but I can recognize your answer as the wrong one.
abelcainsbrother wrote: Instead of just going on your biased opinion,while not caring or wanting to know and discover truth you should just realize that right now at this present time,with all of the scientific knowledge man has been able to gather,the evidence right now still points to God as the cause of everything in the Universe,
What scientific evidence points to God?
abelcainsbrother wrote: not just dark matter,and rejecting this based on a biased opinion without having any reason to think otherwise is intellectual laziness.
I've explained in great detail why I have rejected your claims. That is hardly intellectual laziness.
abelcainsbrother wrote: You can know the truth based on the knowledge we have so far but you have to be willing to accept it and you are not doing it for some reason.
Knowledge WE have? Who is this "we" you speak of?

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#116

Post by Audie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:39 pm

RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:
RickD wrote: Audie,

Can I call you Gish?

depends on what I can call you
Call me Lǐ chá dé.
That is not very imaginative
I bet you had to google it! :rotfl:
True dat, I did g- it.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#117

Post by Audie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:39 pm

xyz
Last edited by Audie on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#118

Post by abelcainsbrother » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:12 pm

Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Ken demanded proof from me while going on his opinion without proof and evidence.It is intellectual dishonesty which is why I demand the same proof and evidence that they do when it comes to God,they ignore our evidence while having none just going on their opinion or non-peer reviewed scientific ideas in some cases.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was said. I was very clear that it was NOT my opinion. I was just giving examples of what a person COULD believe. You made a claim, so I asked you to back it up. I have nothing to back up because I never made any claims.

Ken
abelcainsbrother wrote: Ken,it is impossible to reject the reasons I gave for why God is the most logical cause for Dark matter,
I disagree! I've rejected many of your claims and I have yet to do anything that could be considered Impossible.
abelcainsbrother wrote: as soon as you reject it,you are doing so based on your opinion without any evidence or logic behind it,just your biased opinion.
I rejected your claims because you have yet to provide any credible evidence to support your claim
abelcainsbrother wrote: You think that by rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe in God,you are somehow excused from wanting to get to the truth,but you are not excused,nobody is,unless they could careless what the truth is and are just going on opinions.I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
I may not know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer when presented with one. Here is how I see it; if you are trying to convince me that A+B=C, you need to provide evidence to my satisfaction that C is the correct answer if you expect me to be convinced.
If I reject your claim of C as the correct answer, I will explain in detail why I have rejected your answer as the correct one. But because I have rejected your claim, it doesn't mean I have the right answer and it doesn't mean I have no interest in knowing the correct answer; all it means is your answer does not sound realistic to me. So when I say I don't know, it isn't a cop-out, I am just being honest in saying I may not know the right answer, but I can recognize your answer as the wrong one.
abelcainsbrother wrote: Instead of just going on your biased opinion,while not caring or wanting to know and discover truth you should just realize that right now at this present time,with all of the scientific knowledge man has been able to gather,the evidence right now still points to God as the cause of everything in the Universe,
What scientific evidence points to God?
abelcainsbrother wrote: not just dark matter,and rejecting this based on a biased opinion without having any reason to think otherwise is intellectual laziness.
I've explained in great detail why I have rejected your claims. That is hardly intellectual laziness.
abelcainsbrother wrote: You can know the truth based on the knowledge we have so far but you have to be willing to accept it and you are not doing it for some reason.
Knowledge WE have? Who is this "we" you speak of?

Ken
All you do is deny evidence and logical conclusions to believe God caused Dark matter to hold to your biased opinion,without any evidence.You think you have made a point when you deny evidence and reasons for God and then claim you have not convinced me and I don't know.But it is easy to do what you do and requires no evidence,reason or anything to hold to your biased no evidence opinion.You have no reason to reject God based on your biased "I don't know" opinion and it shows that you would rather go on your no evidence opinion than face the evidence for God while pretending we don't know.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#119

Post by Audie » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:12 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Ken demanded proof from me while going on his opinion without proof and evidence.It is intellectual dishonesty which is why I demand the same proof and evidence that they do when it comes to God,they ignore our evidence while having none just going on their opinion or non-peer reviewed scientific ideas in some cases.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was said. I was very clear that it was NOT my opinion. I was just giving examples of what a person COULD believe. You made a claim, so I asked you to back it up. I have nothing to back up because I never made any claims.

Ken
abelcainsbrother wrote: Ken,it is impossible to reject the reasons I gave for why God is the most logical cause for Dark matter,
I disagree! I've rejected many of your claims and I have yet to do anything that could be considered Impossible.
abelcainsbrother wrote: as soon as you reject it,you are doing so based on your opinion without any evidence or logic behind it,just your biased opinion.
I rejected your claims because you have yet to provide any credible evidence to support your claim
abelcainsbrother wrote: You think that by rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe in God,you are somehow excused from wanting to get to the truth,but you are not excused,nobody is,unless they could careless what the truth is and are just going on opinions.I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
I may not know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer when presented with one. Here is how I see it; if you are trying to convince me that A+B=C, you need to provide evidence to my satisfaction that C is the correct answer if you expect me to be convinced.
If I reject your claim of C as the correct answer, I will explain in detail why I have rejected your answer as the correct one. But because I have rejected your claim, it doesn't mean I have the right answer and it doesn't mean I have no interest in knowing the correct answer; all it means is your answer does not sound realistic to me. So when I say I don't know, it isn't a cop-out, I am just being honest in saying I may not know the right answer, but I can recognize your answer as the wrong one.
abelcainsbrother wrote: Instead of just going on your biased opinion,while not caring or wanting to know and discover truth you should just realize that right now at this present time,with all of the scientific knowledge man has been able to gather,the evidence right now still points to God as the cause of everything in the Universe,
What scientific evidence points to God?
abelcainsbrother wrote: not just dark matter,and rejecting this based on a biased opinion without having any reason to think otherwise is intellectual laziness.
I've explained in great detail why I have rejected your claims. That is hardly intellectual laziness.
abelcainsbrother wrote: You can know the truth based on the knowledge we have so far but you have to be willing to accept it and you are not doing it for some reason.
Knowledge WE have? Who is this "we" you speak of?

Ken
All you do is deny evidence and logical conclusions to believe God caused Dark matter to hold to your biased opinion,without any evidence.You think you have made a point when you deny evidence and reasons for God and then claim you have not convinced me and I don't know.But it is easy to do what you do and requires no evidence,reason or anything to hold to your biased no evidence opinion.You have no reason to reject God based on your biased "I don't know" opinion and it shows that you would rather go on your no evidence opinion than face the evidence for God while pretending we don't know.

Person who pretends to know haranguing someone who admits he doesnt know,that
really does know! How weird is that?

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#120

Post by Kenny » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:12 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:Ken demanded proof from me while going on his opinion without proof and evidence.It is intellectual dishonesty which is why I demand the same proof and evidence that they do when it comes to God,they ignore our evidence while having none just going on their opinion or non-peer reviewed scientific ideas in some cases.
Perhaps you should go back and read what was said. I was very clear that it was NOT my opinion. I was just giving examples of what a person COULD believe. You made a claim, so I asked you to back it up. I have nothing to back up because I never made any claims.

Ken
abelcainsbrother wrote: Ken,it is impossible to reject the reasons I gave for why God is the most logical cause for Dark matter,
I disagree! I've rejected many of your claims and I have yet to do anything that could be considered Impossible.
abelcainsbrother wrote: as soon as you reject it,you are doing so based on your opinion without any evidence or logic behind it,just your biased opinion.
I rejected your claims because you have yet to provide any credible evidence to support your claim
abelcainsbrother wrote: You think that by rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe in God,you are somehow excused from wanting to get to the truth,but you are not excused,nobody is,unless they could careless what the truth is and are just going on opinions.I don't know will not and does not work when you are rejecting evidence and logical reasons to believe God caused Dark Matter.
I may not know all the right answers, but I can sometimes recognize a wrong answer when presented with one. Here is how I see it; if you are trying to convince me that A+B=C, you need to provide evidence to my satisfaction that C is the correct answer if you expect me to be convinced.
If I reject your claim of C as the correct answer, I will explain in detail why I have rejected your answer as the correct one. But because I have rejected your claim, it doesn't mean I have the right answer and it doesn't mean I have no interest in knowing the correct answer; all it means is your answer does not sound realistic to me. So when I say I don't know, it isn't a cop-out, I am just being honest in saying I may not know the right answer, but I can recognize your answer as the wrong one.
abelcainsbrother wrote: Instead of just going on your biased opinion,while not caring or wanting to know and discover truth you should just realize that right now at this present time,with all of the scientific knowledge man has been able to gather,the evidence right now still points to God as the cause of everything in the Universe,
What scientific evidence points to God?
abelcainsbrother wrote: not just dark matter,and rejecting this based on a biased opinion without having any reason to think otherwise is intellectual laziness.
I've explained in great detail why I have rejected your claims. That is hardly intellectual laziness.
abelcainsbrother wrote: You can know the truth based on the knowledge we have so far but you have to be willing to accept it and you are not doing it for some reason.
Knowledge WE have? Who is this "we" you speak of?

Ken
All you do is deny evidence and logical conclusions to believe God caused Dark matter to hold to your biased opinion,without any evidence.You think you have made a point when you deny evidence and reasons for God and then claim you have not convinced me and I don't know.But it is easy to do what you do and requires no evidence,reason or anything to hold to your biased no evidence opinion.You have no reason to reject God based on your biased "I don't know" opinion and it shows that you would rather go on your no evidence opinion than face the evidence for God while pretending we don't know.
So in other words, you have no evidence to back up any of the claims you've made. Got it!

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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