Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Storyteller
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Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#1

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:31 pm

I have to confess, belief in God isn't, and never has been, difficult for me. Religion, and even Christ, was.

I can't explain this very well but I have never been able to accept that this miracle we call life, with all its intracacies, was just a glorious accident. Something so mind blowingly improbable. How?

I can kinda get why people may not believe in the Christian God but to believe that this incredibly complex thing we call life is just something that happened?

I find it bizarre.

All this.... just happened, no one finds that weird?
Why is that more believable than creation?
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IceMobster (Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:28 pm)
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#2

Post by Nessa » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:33 pm

2 Corinthians 4:4

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#3

Post by IceMobster » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:32 pm

I wholeheartedly agree. No matter what question I put up, I could never become an atheist.
Such complexity/diversity/compatibility in the world around us to be a product of coincidence is, for me, impossible.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#4

Post by BGoodForGoodSake » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:11 pm

I have always found it easy to see that complexity can emerge from a few rules. The more rules the more complexity can emerge. And each system which emerges is more complex than the last. Quantum emerging from the abyss, the "material world" emerging from the quantum. Life from the material. Emotions from life. Feelings and Humanity from emotions. The soul from humanity. None can claim the ultimate truth and none are any less real than the substrate from which it came from.

Also the idea that our intelligence and our achievements are the pinnacle of creation always seemed like hubris to me. So the idea that we could even comprehend a god or the actual underpinnings of reality was absurd to me.

So in that way I find it easy to believe that we know nothing and any claims refuting this seemed to me suspicious.
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patrick (Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:01 am)
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#5

Post by IceMobster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:01 pm

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:I have always found it easy to see that complexity can emerge from a few rules. The more rules the more complexity can emerge. And each system which emerges is more complex than the last. Quantum emerging from the abyss, the "material world" emerging from the quantum. Life from the material. Emotions from life. Feelings and Humanity from emotions. The soul from humanity. None can claim the ultimate truth and none are any less real than the substrate from which it came from.

Also the idea that our intelligence and our achievements are the pinnacle of creation always seemed like hubris to me. So the idea that we could even comprehend a god or the actual underpinnings of reality was absurd to me.

So in that way I find it easy to believe that we know nothing and any claims refuting this seemed to me suspicious.
Sorry, you didn't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are going to hell eternal!!!!
....
Like, will it really be like that with you and the rest of the world who isn't Christian at the time of your/their death? (I don't think so)

Anyway, from what I've read in your comment, you remind me of an Epicureanist. That true? :ebiggrin:
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#6

Post by Kenny » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:41 pm

Storyteller wrote:I have to confess, belief in God isn't, and never has been, difficult for me. Religion, and even Christ, was.

I can't explain this very well but I have never been able to accept that this miracle we call life, with all its intracacies, was just a glorious accident. Something so mind blowingly improbable. How?

I can kinda get why people may not believe in the Christian God but to believe that this incredibly complex thing we call life is just something that happened?

I find it bizarre.

All this.... just happened, no one finds that weird?
Why is that more believable than creation?
I’ve never felt a need to obsess over trying to unlock mysteries science has yet to. I find the reply “I don’t know” a perfectly reasonable response to any question I don’t have answers for

Ken
RickD wrote
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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#7

Post by Storyteller » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:02 am

Kenny wrote:
Storyteller wrote:I have to confess, belief in God isn't, and never has been, difficult for me. Religion, and even Christ, was.

I can't explain this very well but I have never been able to accept that this miracle we call life, with all its intracacies, was just a glorious accident. Something so mind blowingly improbable. How?

I can kinda get why people may not believe in the Christian God but to believe that this incredibly complex thing we call life is just something that happened?

I find it bizarre.

All this.... just happened, no one finds that weird?
Why is that more believable than creation?
I’ve never felt a need to obsess over trying to unlock mysteries science has yet to. I find the reply “I don’t know” a perfectly reasonable response to any question I don’t have answers for

Ken
But aren`t you curious?

And I suppose what I`m trying to say, what I don`t understand is why it`s easier to believe that all this was just a cosmic accident rather than being created by God.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#8

Post by Kenny » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:48 am

Kenny wrote:
Storyteller wrote:I have to confess, belief in God isn't, and never has been, difficult for me. Religion, and even Christ, was.

I can't explain this very well but I have never been able to accept that this miracle we call life, with all its intracacies, was just a glorious accident. Something so mind blowingly improbable. How?

I can kinda get why people may not believe in the Christian God but to believe that this incredibly complex thing we call life is just something that happened?

I find it bizarre.

All this.... just happened, no one finds that weird?
Why is that more believable than creation?
I’ve never felt a need to obsess over trying to unlock mysteries science has yet to. I find the reply “I don’t know” a perfectly reasonable response to any question I don’t have answers for

Ken
Storyteller wrote: But aren`t you curious?
Yes! I am very curious.
Storyteller wrote: And I suppose what I`m trying to say, what I don`t understand is why it`s easier to believe that all this was just a cosmic accident rather than being created by God.
Assuming you are defining accident as an unforeseen or unplanned event; I don’t understand why it is easier for you to believe God is responsible than a cosmic accident. Fact is, I don’t have an answer and I see nothing wrong with admitting it.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#9

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:53 am

I appreciate everything you`ve said Ken, I just don`t get it. Mind you, I guess you could say the same.

All this...... it just seems to precise, too complicated to have arisen out of nothing.

I can accept a lot of things that could point to it all being just a cosmic accident but then, why do I find it so hard, in fact impossible, to accept that is how we all became to be? Why God?
I`ve thought about this a lot. Why do I believe?
I guess it really is a case of faith being a knowledge deep inside the heart beyond the reach of proof.
I like to think I`m not a fool yet I believe this crazy idea that we are indeed created by God. It comes from somewhere deep, deep within.
I argued with myself over this for years, tried to disprove God to myself, I just couldn`t, and still can`t. Yet others do. Why?

I guess the answer (Ken) is I don`t know :mrgreen:
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#10

Post by RickD » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:59 am

Storyteller wrote:I appreciate everything you`ve said Ken, I just don`t get it. Mind you, I guess you could say the same.

All this...... it just seems to precise, too complicated to have arisen out of nothing.

I can accept a lot of things that could point to it all being just a cosmic accident but then, why do I find it so hard, in fact impossible, to accept that is how we all became to be? Why God?
I`ve thought about this a lot. Why do I believe?
I guess it really is a case of faith being a knowledge deep inside the heart beyond the reach of proof.
I like to think I`m not a fool yet I believe this crazy idea that we are indeed created by God. It comes from somewhere deep, deep within.
I argued with myself over this for years, tried to disprove God to myself, I just couldn`t, and still can`t. Yet others do. Why?

I guess the answer (Ken) is I don`t know :mrgreen:
Annette,

Could it be, that God has put something "inside" of us, that seeks Him out? Maybe a spiritual part of us all that longs for Him?

Some people open the door. Others ignore the knocking, and hope He will go away.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#11

Post by Storyteller » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:01 am

RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:I appreciate everything you`ve said Ken, I just don`t get it. Mind you, I guess you could say the same.

All this...... it just seems to precise, too complicated to have arisen out of nothing.

I can accept a lot of things that could point to it all being just a cosmic accident but then, why do I find it so hard, in fact impossible, to accept that is how we all became to be? Why God?
I`ve thought about this a lot. Why do I believe?
I guess it really is a case of faith being a knowledge deep inside the heart beyond the reach of proof.
I like to think I`m not a fool yet I believe this crazy idea that we are indeed created by God. It comes from somewhere deep, deep within.
I argued with myself over this for years, tried to disprove God to myself, I just couldn`t, and still can`t. Yet others do. Why?

I guess the answer (Ken) is I don`t know :mrgreen:
Annette,

Could it be, that God has put something "inside" of us, that seeks Him out? Maybe a spiritual part of us all that longs for Him?

Some people open the door. Others ignore the knocking, and hope He will go away.
Could well be Rick, could well be.

Why would anyone want Him to go away? Fear? Doubt?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#12

Post by Philip » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:09 am

Ken: I don’t understand why it is easier for you to believe God is responsible than a cosmic accident.
This is a staggering statement - the equivalent of saying an awesome universe, without ANY guiding hand or some eternally existing intelligence of immense power, created on a scale so vast, so complex, so incredibly designed, so perfectly functioning, which INSTANTLY came into to existence and INSTANTLY began running itself with breathtaking precision, design and function - not randomly and ever-changing, but with incredible consistency in all of its systems AND how all these many previously non-existing things immediately did, still MUST and DO, interact with each other. We witness NO such things - whether at the macro or the micro levels - popping into existence, NO random things assembling themselves or working independent of the laws of physics, chemistry and biology that all work together as if one immense cosmic Swiss watch. But you have no reason to insist this is happening by itself or randomly, but you say it's easier to believe it happened by itself.

Ken, IMHO, your comment shows me your reasoning and rejection of theism is not based upon what is observed or testable, but upon the characteristics of the God (you deny) that is behind it, Whom you cannot accept. It has nothing to do with believing things can happen uncaused without some Super Intelligence. Certainly don't call your belief one based upon anything SCIENTIFIC, as it's beyond ALL scientific understandings. Oh, and "non-binary thinking" is NOT an idea based upon what science can or has observed or has tested for - as it is only meaningless metaphysics mumbo jumbo - no matter how often, haughtily or insistently said.

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#13

Post by RickD » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:48 am

Storyteller wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:I appreciate everything you`ve said Ken, I just don`t get it. Mind you, I guess you could say the same.

All this...... it just seems to precise, too complicated to have arisen out of nothing.

I can accept a lot of things that could point to it all being just a cosmic accident but then, why do I find it so hard, in fact impossible, to accept that is how we all became to be? Why God?
I`ve thought about this a lot. Why do I believe?
I guess it really is a case of faith being a knowledge deep inside the heart beyond the reach of proof.
I like to think I`m not a fool yet I believe this crazy idea that we are indeed created by God. It comes from somewhere deep, deep within.
I argued with myself over this for years, tried to disprove God to myself, I just couldn`t, and still can`t. Yet others do. Why?

I guess the answer (Ken) is I don`t know :mrgreen:
Annette,

Could it be, that God has put something "inside" of us, that seeks Him out? Maybe a spiritual part of us all that longs for Him?

Some people open the door. Others ignore the knocking, and hope He will go away.
Could well be Rick, could well be.

Why would anyone want Him to go away? Fear? Doubt?
Possibly. Maybe misunderstanding of who God is. A straw man god created by what they think He is.

Stubbornness maybe. Wanting to do things our own way, with no accountability to anyone.

Past hurts that are blamed on God, maybe. The old, "if God was real, He wouldn't allow blah blah blah..."
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#14

Post by Nessa » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:57 am

RickD wrote:
Past hurts that are blamed on God, maybe. The old, "if God was real, He wouldn't allow blah blah blah..."
Was any actually listening to what rick said? y:-?
I just heard blah blah blah...

:lol:

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Re: Why is it so difficult to believe in God?

#15

Post by BGoodForGoodSake » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:57 am

IceMobster wrote: Sorry, you didn't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are going to hell eternal!!!!
....
Like, will it really be like that with you and the rest of the world who isn't Christian at the time of your/their death? (I don't think so)

Anyway, from what I've read in your comment, you remind me of an Epicureanist. That true? :ebiggrin:
No, I think what I am trying to say is that people innately sit somewhere on this heirarchy of seeing the world. And it is hard for an individual who sits on one level of "Reality" to understand those who sit on a different level. But I think the the path to the truth requires one to examine all the levels. So those who sit on let's say the emotional level would know that God put the seed in us to seek him out. Those on the Spiritual level might feel that god is within us if we only look. Those on the material level would conclude that there is no God. etc, etc Each so sure of their position. Each destined to reach their conclusions given their inborn limitations.

I don't think anyone would argue that none of us are omnipresent, omnicient, yet we all act as we are to some extent. I am guilty of this as well.

Now forgive me here as I don't have much time to spend on this but...

Imagine a single situation like an ant dying for its colony. You can see it as, a permutation of atoms which are a statistically probable outcome given the laws of cause and effect and physics, a complex set of chemical reactions, an ant behaving the way it is because it was evolved to behave that way, an act of love and devotion, or an ultimate sacrifice enobling the ant in the presence of the cosmos. Maybe if one is able to accept each viewpoint as valid we can begin to get to the ultimate truth.
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