Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#16

Post by abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:11 pm

Kenny wrote:
Bluejay4 wrote:I've seen the comparison between God and other so called gods made, I don't agree. But what similarities do you, the atheist who's reading this question, see between the true God of the universe and the mere supermen of paganism?
The similarities I see between the God you worship vs those worshipped by others are:

* I am unable to experience their existence, but believers claim its existence is obvious to all.
* Those who do believe divide themselves in various denominations and sects because there is no consensus when it comes to the details of what they believe.
* They all subscribe to an ancient (holy) text that is written in such a vague way that results in many different interpretations thus the various sects and denominations.
* I am often told that after death, or in the end everything will make sense; or someday I will see.

That’s all I can think of for now, maybe more later

K
I'm glad you brought up denominations in Christianity but if you have not noticed the atheist movement actually has denominations too. All atheists and agnostics do not all agree on things,it actually normal to have differences.Atheists and agnostics are blind to their differences though.
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Hortator (Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:35 pm)
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#17

Post by Audie » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:49 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Skeptics tend to define God in a way that allows them to disprove his existence.
Dont you have that exactly backwards?
I don't think so, the reason I say that is because the majority of definitions of God I have seen from skeptics are not orthodox definitions to begin with and rather easy for them ( skeptics) to use to "prove" the non-existence of God ( or prove whatever it is they are trying to prove at the time.
Ok could be, I am not familiar with such. I have, tho, seen "god" defined so as to be unassailable.

Then too, the popularity of the bible seems to me in no small part connected with how
it can be read to say most anything a person wants it to say. "Orthodox"?

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#18

Post by abelcainsbrother » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:59 pm

It's up to you to find out what is right and wrong when it comes to the bible.Nobody is excused like they think.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#19

Post by Kenny » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:40 pm

B. W. wrote:BW
Who's existence?
Ken
The existence of the God worshipped.

B. W. responds - God is not an it

BW
Well, Kenny, I sure cannot experience your personal existence can I? Yet, I see evidence that you do indeed exist. I can choose to ignore you or respond.
Ken
If I gave you my address, you could come to my house and not only have evidence of my existence, you could have proof.

B. W. responds - I can ignore the invite and dig my heals in the sand and believe you do not exist despite the evidence. God gave you a road map to find, yet, you reject the directions back to God's house...

BW
Same goes for you with God. You can ingore the great outdoors and wonders of nature and rationalize a belief system that ignores God's overtures to you.
Ken
If I believe in Santa Clause and I define Santa as a jolly old man who makes toys for children, the very existence of toys will be evidence of Santa to me, but it will not be for you. If you believe in God, and you define God as one who creates Nature and all that exists, the very existence of nature and all that exists will be evidence of God to you, but it will not be for me.

B. W. responds - As Stated before: Kenny, I sure cannot experience your personal existence can I? Yet, I see evidence that you do indeed exist. I can choose to ignore you or respond.

In this God is just and absolutely fair in giving folks free moral agency, you can trust him or not. How is that not fair? He gave a way clearly marked out for you to find him and you are free to ignore the road map and his address. Unlike Islam, Christianity does not force your convert or die. God is real, it is you that refuse to find him or acknowledge him.

This denial maybe based upon your past life experience common with all human beings experiencing being betrayed, abandoned, neglected, rejected, put on trial, judged and executed in various way, wrongly accused, lied about, slandered, attempts to take things held dear in ones heart away from them, all from a need to feel wanted and validated and in control.

Well your disdain for God was put upon Jesus Christ during the 24 hours before the cross, thus revealing what sin's dysfunction, your not being perfect, really is by what it produces around you. You continue to put Christians and God on trial and mock and seek ruining other peoples lives by attempting to steal what is in his or her away and force people to become like you. God and Christians do not force you to accept the Lord. He reasons with all of us and let's a person come to one's own free conclusions. He will grant you a place you so desire, life void of him, if that is really what you want. However be sober minded about Humanity and what it really does and not naive.

We, all humanity placed their sin/dysfunction/our not being perfect, all the hate, disdain, disbelief, rejection, anger upon Jesus Christ as that is how we human beings treat what is good demonstrated also in how we treat others. While upon the cross Jesus bore God's wrath for all our unjust sin dysfunction,our not being perfect, all our hate, disdain, disbelief, rejection, anger... in our place.

Of course you can reject this, freely too, but when will you bury your hatchet? As you treat us and God and others displays your existence is imperfect and incapable of burying the hatchet. Place you hatchet into Jesus and let him bury it for you, then you will discover God's existence as true...

Someone sent me a note that says: God's justice gives us what we deserve. God's grace gives us what we do not deserve. God's mercy withholds what we do deserve.


BW
Next, you said, claim its existence, what is the it in the question?
Ken
The Deities the OP was referring to.

B. W. responds - Again God - our creator is not an it. Neither are you.

BW
Are you not then choosing to ignore based upon your belief system?
Ken
My belief system has nothing to do with any of the Deities the OP was referring to.

B. W. responds - Yes it does - you singled out the Creator, and are putting him on your own personal trial and bribed the jury to find him guilty worthy of death. Some things simply do not change. Jesus took your hatchet blows so you can see that you are not as perfect as you claim to be. He offers forgiveness for this and all you have done to others (evidence here too) and heal the wound in the heart life gave you. In that, you will know God is real...

BW
Not true, when it comes to essentials of Christian faith there is no disagreement...
Ken
I said the details; not essentials.
BW
Next do all scientist, philosophers have the same consensus or do they mesh with groups of like minded persons (Global warming, no warming, etc and etc)?
There have been and are claims science has made in the resent past and now that are error. Since these are new, because they are new, make their errors better?

Ken
What does science have to do with this conversation?

B. W. responds - Scientist disagree on Details and even on Essentials. So do philosophers concerning ideas.

So from what I am hearing you say - this is the superior way while Christians all agree on the essential truth of Jesus Christ are wrong.

So I am hearing you say that two wrongs make things right?

People can disagree on details as such discussion help uncover truth and this has no effect on essential truth of Jesus Christ for a christian.


BW
I pointed out some very clear passages of fulfilled prophecy concerning Israel to you during your membership here, Kenny; however, you continue to choose to believe and have faith in whatsoever you will, nevertheless...
Ken
Fulfilled prophecies is only proof for those who already believe.

B. W. responds - Israel was regathered back to the same geographic location twice and in the manner described. There is no misunderstanding the plain text of the language.

Again you have a right to disbelieve and keep wielding your hatchet to give God another blow.

Why do you do this, Kenny?


BW
It will happen, one day, you will die and find out... why are you mocking your own death? Do you dislike yourself or something?
Ken
I’m not mocking, I am only pointing out similarities the OP asked about.

B. W. responds - Are you sure you are not mocking our own death? Do you believe that you cease to exist after you die?

Isn't that mocking as well as a blind attempt to get away with the hatchet you wield against others and God?

Again here is the note someone sent me: God's justice gives us what we deserve. God's grace gives us what we do not deserve. God's mercy withholds what we do deserve.

-
-
-
BW
God is not an it

Ken
C’mon BW in the context of how the question was answered, you know what I meant.

BW
I can ignore the invite and dig my heals in the sand and believe you do not exist despite the evidence. God gave you a road map to find, yet, you reject the directions back to God's house...

Ken
In other words, God’s existence is obvious; right? You are making my point.

BW
As Stated before: Kenny, I sure cannot experience your personal existence can I? Yet, I see evidence that you do indeed exist. I can choose to ignore you or respond.

In this God is just and absolutely fair in giving folks free moral agency, you can trust him or not. How is that not fair? He gave a way clearly marked out for you to find him and you are free to ignore the road map and his address. Unlike Islam, Christianity does not force your convert or die. God is real, it is you that refuse to find him or acknowledge him.

This denial maybe based upon your past life experience common with all human beings experiencing being betrayed, abandoned, neglected, rejected, put on trial, judged and executed in various way, wrongly accused, lied about, slandered, attempts to take things held dear in ones heart away from them, all from a need to feel wanted and validated and in control.

Well your disdain for God was put upon Jesus Christ during the 24 hours before the cross, thus revealing what sin's dysfunction, your not being perfect, really is by what it produces around you. You continue to put Christians and God on trial and mock and seek ruining other peoples lives by attempting to steal what is in his or her away and force people to become like you. God and Christians do not force you to accept the Lord. He reasons with all of us and let's a person come to one's own free conclusions. He will grant you a place you so desire, life void of him, if that is really what you want. However be sober minded about Humanity and what it really does and not naive.

We, all humanity placed their sin/dysfunction/our not being perfect, all the hate, disdain, disbelief, rejection, anger upon Jesus Christ as that is how we human beings treat what is good demonstrated also in how we treat others. While upon the cross Jesus bore God's wrath for all our unjust sin dysfunction,our not being perfect, all our hate, disdain, disbelief, rejection, anger... in our place.

Of course you can reject this, freely too, but when will you bury your hatchet? As you treat us and God and others displays your existence is imperfect and incapable of burying the hatchet. Place you hatchet into Jesus and let him bury it for you, then you will discover God's existence as true...

Someone sent me a note that says: God's justice gives us what we deserve. God's grace gives us what we do not deserve. God's mercy withholds what we do deserve.



Ken
I think you’re getting a bit off topic; we’re not playing “convert the atheist" right now, this thread is about similarities I see between the God of the Bible and all the others people worship. The rest of your replies appear off topic as well, so I am a bit reluctant to reply for fear of derailing this thread. However if you wish to start a new thread, I will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have

Ken
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Nicki (Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:01 pm)
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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#20

Post by Kenny » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:10 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Bluejay4 wrote:I've seen the comparison between God and other so called gods made, I don't agree. But what similarities do you, the atheist who's reading this question, see between the true God of the universe and the mere supermen of paganism?
The similarities I see between the God you worship vs those worshipped by others are:

* I am unable to experience their existence, but believers claim its existence is obvious to all.
* Those who do believe divide themselves in various denominations and sects because there is no consensus when it comes to the details of what they believe.
* They all subscribe to an ancient (holy) text that is written in such a vague way that results in many different interpretations thus the various sects and denominations.
* I am often told that after death, or in the end everything will make sense; or someday I will see.

That’s all I can think of for now, maybe more later

K
I'm glad you brought up denominations in Christianity but if you have not noticed the atheist movement actually has denominations too. All atheists and agnostics do not all agree on things,it actually normal to have differences.Atheists and agnostics are blind to their differences though.
What do you mean by "atheist denominations"? What are some of these denominations that you speak of? As far as being blind to differences, I've been very clear atheists don't agree on very much. From my experience, it seems it is the theists who feel we are supposed to agree on everything. I can't tell you how many times some of you guys have quoted some well known/respected atheist (half of the time I haven't even heard of them) and I am expected to agree with them or feel obligated to defend his position. I've been very clear; as an atheist, I am only qualified to speak for myself; nobody else, and nobody else is qualified to speak for me.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#21

Post by Audie » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:10 am

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Bluejay4 wrote:I've seen the comparison between God and other so called gods made, I don't agree. But what similarities do you, the atheist who's reading this question, see between the true God of the universe and the mere supermen of paganism?
The similarities I see between the God you worship vs those worshipped by others are:

* I am unable to experience their existence, but believers claim its existence is obvious to all.
* Those who do believe divide themselves in various denominations and sects because there is no consensus when it comes to the details of what they believe.
* They all subscribe to an ancient (holy) text that is written in such a vague way that results in many different interpretations thus the various sects and denominations.
* I am often told that after death, or in the end everything will make sense; or someday I will see.

That’s all I can think of for now, maybe more later

K
I'm glad you brought up denominations in Christianity but if you have not noticed the atheist movement actually has denominations too. All atheists and agnostics do not all agree on things,it actually normal to have differences.Atheists and agnostics are blind to their differences though.
What do you mean by "atheist denominations"? What are some of these denominations that you speak of? As far as being blind to differences, I've been very clear atheists don't agree on very much. From my experience, it seems it is the theists who feel we are supposed to agree on everything. I can't tell you how many times some of you guys have quoted some well known/respected atheist (half of the time I haven't even heard of them) and I am expected to agree with them or feel obligated to defend his position. I've been very clear; as an atheist, I am only qualified to speak for myself; nobody else, and nobody else is qualified to speak for me.

Ken
You see that kind of crap all the time from a certain sort. People incapable of grasping the idea that other people are actually free of whatever it is that drives them into religion.

Hence, the nonsense about "denominations and "dogma" for atheists. Or the insistence that atheism is a religion.

Such people think we must be like them, only much lesser in honesty, insight, education and ability.

That same sort also believes they are superior to an atheist. Hence the "blind to the differences", a statement made up simply to be a put down, 100% without any evidentiary basis.

No more than for those "denominations" likewise hallucinated into existence.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#22

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:19 am

I don't think there are atheist denominations BUT there are different types of atheists of course.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#23

Post by Audie » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:04 am

PaulSacramento wrote:I don't think there are atheist denominations BUT there are different types of atheists of course.
Um yeah? And types of types, too.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#24

Post by Hortator » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:59 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote: I'm glad you brought up denominations in Christianity but if you have not noticed the atheist movement actually has denominations too. All atheists and agnostics do not all agree on things,it actually normal to have differences.Atheists and agnostics are blind to their differences though.
This is something I had never thought of. Very good point. All Christians believe in God, just like all agnostics/atheists don't believe in God. If the existence of denominations (literally, denomination just means "the name" in Latin) is a reason to critique Christianity, the existence of differing brands of atheism and agnosticism are up for grabs too. Like the fact that 50% of self-described atheists actually still believe in heaven: https://www.barna.org/component/content ... teaVvkrK1s

For further readings on this, Rich has showed a few reasons why the Abrahamic God is extremely different from many other gods in many key areas that seem almost inconceivable to make up or exaggerate: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/invented.html

Further further reading on why the teachings of Jesus differ from what any one else out there is serving: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/teachings.html

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#25

Post by Nicki » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:56 pm

Bluejay4 wrote:I've seen the comparison between God and other so called gods made, I don't agree. But what similarities do you, the atheist who's reading this question, see between the true God of the universe and the mere supermen of paganism?
This question is not so much about comparing different ideas about God, as in Christianity, Judaism and Islam, but comparing the concept of one supreme God who's the first cause of everything else with the idea of 'gods', limited supernatural beings. Some of these religions, paganism for example, have no holy text.

Regarding denominations, the opinion of a previous pastor of mine was that the main difference between them is worship style. Some denominations like old hymns and liturgical services; others make their meetings more contemporary and casual; but there should be no significant differences in doctrine between mainstream denominations.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#26

Post by Kenny » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:39 am

Nicki wrote: Regarding denominations, the opinion of a previous pastor of mine was that the main difference between them is worship style. Some denominations like old hymns and liturgical services; others make their meetings more contemporary and casual; but there should be no significant differences in doctrine between mainstream denominations.
But when you look at issues like "speaking in tongues", or even the Trinity; it is obvious there are differences.

Ken
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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#27

Post by RickD » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:09 am

Kenny wrote:
Nicki wrote: Regarding denominations, the opinion of a previous pastor of mine was that the main difference between them is worship style. Some denominations like old hymns and liturgical services; others make their meetings more contemporary and casual; but there should be no significant differences in doctrine between mainstream denominations.
But when you look at issues like "speaking in tongues", or even the Trinity; it is obvious there are differences.

Ken
Speaking in tongues, yes. Trinity, no. All Protestant denominations teach the Trinity. The Catholic Church as well.

In other words, no Trinity=not a Christian denomination.
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24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Dear atheistic individuals, in what way is the Abrahamic God like every other god?

#28

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:01 am

The nature of the Abrahamic God is unique from all other Gods.
The essence of being the Uncaused Cause, Unmoved mover, the creator and sustainer of ALL, is unique in that way to YHWH.
God IS being ( not A being).
The nature of YHWH is so different, so unique that no other religion's supreme God is like Him.

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