Is there Proof in the Pudding?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#1

Post by Starhunter » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:47 pm

How do you know that you are worshiping God and are not somehow self deceived?

How can you know a false Christ from the true One?

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#2

Post by 1over137 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:14 am

Starhunter wrote:How do you know that you are worshiping God and are not somehow self deceived?

How can you know a false Christ from the true One?
False Christ from true One? Read the Bible to see.

Worshipping God or being self-deceived? What do you mean by self-deceived? Can you elaborate on this?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#3

Post by Starhunter » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:52 am

False Christ from true One? Read the Bible to see.

Worshiping God or being self-deceived? What do you mean by self-deceived? Can you elaborate on this?
Reading the Bible, I like that, but is there a simple "litmus test" that can let you know whether someone is of God or not, telling the truth or not. Do you have to drink the whole bottle to test if the milk is sour? Or can you tell straight away? And what if you lose your instincts, can you fall back on something that will let you know where you stand with God?

By self deceived, I mean like some people who can kill the innocent in the name of God, or like King Saul who no longer received a response from God, or the Pharisees who felt entitled and yet were far from salvation.

How can people know that God is listening, and that they are not just talking to themselves and "believing" in whatever suits them?

And if they get a response, how can they tell if it is from God and not some evil angel playing games, or even their own imagination?

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#4

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:35 pm

Starhunter wrote:How do you know that you are worshiping God and are not somehow self deceived?

How can you know a false Christ from the true One?
Usually because the answer you get that you KNOW is right is not the one you like.

The easy answer is what "fruit" does this worship bare?

But easy doesn't mean right.

It is far to easy to "fake" goodness and to be good with ultior motives that no one knows about.

The honest truth is that for each believer it is different, sometimes VERY different, BUT always the driving force is LOVE, if there is no love, there is no Christ.

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#5

Post by Starhunter » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:55 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Starhunter wrote:How do you know that you are worshiping God and are not somehow self deceived?

How can you know a false Christ from the true One?
Usually because the answer you get that you KNOW is right is not the one you like.

The easy answer is what "fruit" does this worship bare?

But easy doesn't mean right.

It is far to easy to "fake" goodness and to be good with ultior motives that no one knows about.

The honest truth is that for each believer it is different, sometimes VERY different, BUT always the driving force is LOVE, if there is no love, there is no Christ.
A succinct and telling answer,

Reminds me of the easy path v's the one to strive for.

We know that the example of love is to do unto others...

how can that principle apply if the person is evil or sick, such as self depreciation and wrong associations with love?

As you said, truth is different for every person.

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#6

Post by Starhunter » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:39 pm

Have you ever tested God for the sake of helping you to believe, His acceptance of you or something else?

Did you get results, and can they be proof?

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#7

Post by 1over137 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:33 pm

Starhunter wrote:
False Christ from true One? Read the Bible to see.

Worshiping God or being self-deceived? What do you mean by self-deceived? Can you elaborate on this?
Reading the Bible, I like that, but is there a simple "litmus test" that can let you know whether someone is of God or not, telling the truth or not. Do you have to drink the whole bottle to test if the milk is sour? Or can you tell straight away? And what if you lose your instincts, can you fall back on something that will let you know where you stand with God?

By self deceived, I mean like some people who can kill the innocent in the name of God, or like King Saul who no longer received a response from God, or the Pharisees who felt entitled and yet were far from salvation.

How can people know that God is listening, and that they are not just talking to themselves and "believing" in whatever suits them?

And if they get a response, how can they tell if it is from God and not some evil angel playing games, or even their own imagination?
Acts 11:17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Also the 'litmus test' must be based on something. Sometimes, you do not have to drink the whole bottle, depends on what the person is proclaiming.

If you do not wan to lose instincts then read the Bible, pray to God, be humble and be loving.

God told us Exodus 20:13
13 “You shall not murder.

King Saul - I will have to think more on this

On Pharisees:
Luke 18:9-14
9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be [f]merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Galatians 5:16-26
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh [g]sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you [h]please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, [j]factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who [k]belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also [l]walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

So, do not be proud. If you are too proud you can get lost in your pride.

On God listening to us:
1 John 5:14-15
This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

On the response:
Well watch and observe yourself, whether you are distancing from God or not. For that, again, read Scriptures to tell you so.

Depends how mature you are. Those more mature may discern whether something is of good or not more quickly. Walk in Christ, have relationship with him, grow and learn to wisdom.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#8

Post by 1over137 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:35 pm

Starhunter wrote:Have you ever tested God for the sake of helping you to believe, His acceptance of you or something else?

Did you get results, and can they be proof?
Matthew 4:5-7 ESV
Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#9

Post by 1over137 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:43 pm

Starhunter wrote:Have you ever tested God for the sake of helping you to believe, His acceptance of you or something else?

Did you get results, and can they be proof?
When I was about to become a believer, I prayed to God and asked for help, asked for healing me.

And He did. He gave me peace. He gave me strength.
(Does not mean that I have peace all the time. There are periods I am to learn something for example.)

I would not call it testing.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#10

Post by Starhunter » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:36 am

You have covered every base here with powerful answers, bless you!

Even the Son of God relying on the scriptures, like the honest seekers among the apostles.

It tells us that the Bible is God's reliable and worthy testimony and that He preserves it to all generations.

Jesus made the word His eyes, ears and mind.
Isaiah 11:3 "...He shall not judge after the sight of His eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of His ears;"

He never resorted to popular opinion or even His own senses, but made every word of God His sustenance.

What great examples!

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#11

Post by Proinsias » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:03 pm

The proof in the pudding for me will be either the second coming or a rather miserable time after I die, or both. Pleasant fruit, love & the relevance of whatever texts you adhere to in day to day life seems to be something one can accomplish, or fail in, in almost any religious framework.

If you have faith in your path then keep on keeping on.
Starhunter wrote:Even the Son of God relying on the scriptures, like the honest seekers among the apostles.

It tells us that the Bible is God's reliable and worthy testimony and that He preserves it to all generations.
From an outsider pov this seems rather circular, the later biblical texts put faith in that which preceeded them.

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#12

Post by Starhunter » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:08 pm

Proinsias wrote:
From an outsider pov this seems rather circular, the later biblical texts put faith in that which preceded them.
True, they certainly relied on previous revelations and compared them with what was given them.

example, Daniel studied the writings of Jeremiah. Daniel 9:2.

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#13

Post by stuartcr » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:59 am

If there really is only one God, and you pray to God, how could the one God not hear you?

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#14

Post by 1over137 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:00 am

stuartcr wrote:If there really is only one God, and you pray to God, how could the one God not hear you?
Why do you think he does not hear?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Is there Proof in the Pudding?

#15

Post by Silvertusk » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:56 pm

Starhunter wrote:
False Christ from true One? Read the Bible to see.

Worshiping God or being self-deceived? What do you mean by self-deceived? Can you elaborate on this?
Reading the Bible, I like that, but is there a simple "litmus test" that can let you know whether someone is of God or not, telling the truth or not. Do you have to drink the whole bottle to test if the milk is sour? Or can you tell straight away? And what if you lose your instincts, can you fall back on something that will let you know where you stand with God?

By self deceived, I mean like some people who can kill the innocent in the name of God, or like King Saul who no longer received a response from God, or the Pharisees who felt entitled and yet were far from salvation.

How can people know that God is listening, and that they are not just talking to themselves and "believing" in whatever suits them?

And if they get a response, how can they tell if it is from God and not some evil angel playing games, or even their own imagination?
For me it is simply 1 Corinthians 13.
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

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