What would God say if he came here and why.

[Revolutionary]

Focally, when the only thing we have to really prove is our own voice of expression..... There it is again.... If God exists, just another brilliance that pushes our focus to look within....

Does infinity get any more brilliant?

[RickD]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

[Revolutionary]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

[Revolutionary]

Repeat!

Let me entertain something quickly, it might help the discussion.....

I look at infinite mass where the properties itself create a continuum of 'undulating' and shifting bangs giving rise to new universes in an unfathomable expanse of time for each occurrence... And I am left dumbfounded and in awe.... And I think to myself, if I were God and sought to create a perfect arena that served as a reflection of my hand.... This is pure genius, it is in fact a brilliance that is beyond comprehension.

But here we are, arguing that our physical universe proves a creator.... I'm sorry, I'm not here to be a party pooper..... Objectively, it does not....

Secretly, where pure intellect is concerned..... I find that rather beautiful and brilliant!!!

[Kurieuo]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

The observer needs truth-conducive faculties in order to perform scientific observation.

[Revolutionary]

You want to prove God? Prove it from within!

Wielding your belief around like it is a superior force does not accomplish this!

Look around you!

[Revolutionary]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

The observer needs truth-conducive faculties in order to perform scientific observation.

If I whacked you over the head with a shovel, I'm sure that we could both agree that the mass that makes up that shovel is a solid "faculty" to conduct our basis of observation..... I wouldn't however argue that gravity was the cause behind it! Well, not unless we indulge in the definition of gravity!

Now, if we're done trying to be witty, if you desire to enter the discussion, can you begin by actually addressing something?

[Kurieuo]

Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

How great is God that He allowed for the ultimate good in His creation: Love.

Though we chose not love, but hate and resentment... despite our imperfection God imparted His own perfection in Christ so that He need not condemn us, but could enter into a relationship with us as originally intended in His good creation.

What was once imperfect is now perfected in Christ. It is freely given by God's grace. That is great news!

But, I'm talking to an illiterate. Someone spiritually blind. A person to whom theology is absurd. However, to others who see... I'm sure they'll see the gems in what I say.

[Kurieuo]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

The observer needs truth-conducive faculties in order to perform scientific observation.

If I whacked you over the head with a shovel, I'm sure that we could both agree that the mass that makes up that shovel is a solid "faculty" to conduct our basis of observation..... I wouldn't however argue that gravity was the cause behind it! Well, not unless we indulge in the definition of gravity!

Now, if we're done trying to be witty, if you desire to enter the discussion, can you begin by actually addressing something?

Address something? Like I did with my first post while you yourself were attempting to play the "witty" one.

Sorry, it was not my intention to rain on your parade. But, you miss the point, but it was quite sharp so can't expect dullness to pick up on it. Again, I apologise... I'm really not witty though you see it. I'll leave you be the witty one.

Nonetheless, to observe requires an observer which is more than mere mass. To observe correctly, requires faculties that are tuned into the truth. Observing faculties evolved by chance, built primarily for survival rather than truth... so how is it we know what we know is true. Re: Mass, such is not concerned with matters of truth, let alone what is morally good or bad. It has not intentions to do this or that. Mass, is simply mass.

[RickD]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

No not end of story. If mass is the cause of the universe, what is the cause of mass? Unless you are claiming mass had no cause.

So, what is the cause of mass?

[Revolutionary]

Perhaps someone could demonstrate some integrity and answer the simple question without absurd declarations like "God can't create something perfect, because only he is perfect!!!"

So, were we created innately perfect or imperfect?

How great is God that He allowed for the ultimate good in His creation: Love.

Though we chose not love, but hate and resentment... despite our imperfection God imparted His own perfection in Christ so that He need not condemn us, but could enter into a relationship with us as originally intended in His good creation.

What was once imperfect is now perfected in Christ. It is freely given by God's grace. That is great news!

But, I'm talking to an illiterate. Someone spiritually blind. A person to whom theology is absurd. However, to others who see... I'm sure they'll see the gems in what I say.

Where's my shovel?

Aren't you a gem though? I'm sure your fellow Christians are so very proud of you and aspire to be just like you!

I'm not here to stroke my ego but to share an expression capable of seeing the beauty in every life... I don't have to justify it or defend it, it's an offering!.... An offering where an illiterate is a product of our own denial, and where the spiritually blind is simply our inability to demonstrate the beauty that exists within us all. Where our inability to see an expression capable of embracing every life and mind regardless of what it might currently believe is the only absurdity.

[Revolutionary]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

No not end of story. If mass is the cause of the universe, what is the cause of mass? Unless you are claiming mass had no cause.

So, what is the cause of mass?

We can actually change the form of mass but it can never be destroyed.... The observable and testable properties of mass actually give a definitive outline that it has always existed in one form or another for all of eternity. This is a purely objective and highly critical scientific observation of what mass is.
In this observable arena, mass does not have a cause, no matter how you dice it up.... Because you lack the ability to comprehend an arena of eternal mass, doesn't prove it needed to be created.
I'll add that I'm not indulging in proving it wasn't created, I'm just proving that we don't have even a smidgen of proof that it was!!!

[RickD]

So, instead of believing in a loving, personal God, who loved the world He created so much, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, a God that cared so much about you personally Revolutionary, that Jesus Christ died was buried, and was resurrected, so that if you trust in Him, you will have eternal life, instead of believing in him, you believe in mass?

Got it!

[Revolutionary]

Good grief! Can't you just answer questions without all the mumbo jumbo?

You agree the universe has a cause. What is the cause?

Where scientific observation is concerned, mass is the cause..... End of story!

The observer needs truth-conducive faculties in order to perform scientific observation.

If I whacked you over the head with a shovel, I'm sure that we could both agree that the mass that makes up that shovel is a solid "faculty" to conduct our basis of observation..... I wouldn't however argue that gravity was the cause behind it! Well, not unless we indulge in the definition of gravity!

Now, if we're done trying to be witty, if you desire to enter the discussion, can you begin by actually addressing something?

Address something? Like I did with my first post while you yourself were attempting to play the "witty" one.

Sorry, it was not my intention to rain on your parade. But, you miss the point, but it was quite sharp so can't expect dullness to pick up on it. Again, I apologise... I'm really not witty though you see it. I'll leave you be the witty one.

Nonetheless, to observe requires an observer which is more than mere mass. To observe correctly, requires faculties that are tuned into the truth. Observing faculties evolved by chance, built primarily for survival rather than truth... so how is it we know what we know is true. Re: Mass, such is not concerned with matters of truth, let alone what is morally good or bad. It has not intentions to do this or that. Mass, is simply mass.

I keep waiting for a punch line.... Do you have a point or are we going to begin creating a fantastical arena like a matrix? Oh what fun!

[Revolutionary]

So, instead of believing in a loving, personal God, who loved the world He created so much, that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, a God that cared so much about you personally Revolutionary, that Jesus Christ died was buried, and was resurrected, so that if you trust in Him, you will have eternal life, instead of believing in him, you believe in mass?

Got it!

My friend....

I can't discard a single life or mind, or leave even just one behind..... I know how to tangibly accomplish this type of expression for all of humanity.... So if it is our purpose to put our trust in something that doesn't promote such a realization, I must stay behind with all the others.... To be anything less than this would be the equivalent of me tearing my own heart out!