Atheism: Belief or Position?

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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Is atheism a belief?

Yes
15
68%
No
5
23%
May be
2
9%
 
Total votes: 22

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RickD
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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#76

Post by RickD » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:38 am

So I guess your question has been answered. Atheism is a belief. A belief that there is no God.


Seems simple enough?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#77

Post by jlay » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:21 pm

Lunalle wrote:These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science.
Wow? Science has ideas. Science deals with the physical. Ideas are metaphysical. Maybe you should brush up on the definition of science.
These are not my ideas, these are the ideas of science. These ideas have been established to help us determine what is true, and what is not. These are ideas of how we think. They are also more than ideas, they are rules. Go ahead and challenge them, if that is what you want to do. However, that is a far step back from where we are now. That is very much a topic of philosophy, which doesn't belong here.
You are talking about ideas and truth. That is very much philosophy. Otherwise, what is the scientific process for measuring ideas and truth?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#78

Post by Lunalle » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:55 pm

EDIT: Moved to PM
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#79

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:16 am

The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#80

Post by Lunalle » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:20 am

PaulSacramento wrote:The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#81

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:45 am

Lunalle wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:The burden of proof always lies on the person making a comment, regardless of the comment.
If I tell a person that has never seen snow that snow exists, then I have to prove it and that is that.
If a person tells me, because they have never seen a black swan, that black swans do NOT exist, then they have to prove that also.
The best that person can say ( in regards to the black swan) is that, personally, they have never seen one and, until they do, they don't believe they exist.
In short, the "agnostic" position.
No, the burden of proof always lies on the person making a claim. There's no burden of proof for having an opinion, or even speaking your opinion.
Fair enough.
If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#82

Post by Lunalle » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:19 am

PaulSacramento wrote: Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that. :)
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#83

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:14 pm

Lunalle wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote: Fair enough. If all ones has and all one is expressing is an opinion, then, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I'm so happy you agree. I've been bashing my head off my desk all day long. You're the first person to actually agree with me on that. :)

So we no longer have to provide you proof. y\:D/
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#84

Post by Lunalle » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:So we no longer have to provide you proof. y\:D/
Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though. :)
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#85

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:08 pm

Lunalle wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:So we no longer have to provide you proof. y\:D/
Not for your opinions, nope. You do if you claim something is true though. :)
This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion.

It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#86

Post by Lunalle » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:00 am

Danieltwotwenty wrote:This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.

Cheers!
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#87

Post by 1over137 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:05 am

Lunalle wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:This just sounds like a game of semantics, if I say my opinion that God is real then really I am saying I believe it is true. Every truth becomes an opinion if we look at it in the way of opinion, everything is subjected to the individual's opinion. It's a bit of a cop out really if everyone claims it's just my opinion, there is little point in even discussing anything anymore.
I see what you're saying Dan, but I think it is a very important distinction. If you honestly just throw out your opinion, as such, there is very little pressure for anyone to agree with you. If you claim something is true, then there is a much higher pressure for others agreeing with you. What we're concerned about, is the pressure on others to agree. Which is why we say you have a "burden of proof" if you are pressuring others to agree with you.

Cheers!
I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#88

Post by Lunalle » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:20 am

1over137 wrote:I was reading your post and then noticed your signature. Is that what is in you signature just an opinion or a claim? It sounds like a claim.
Good catch! :)

The first part of my signature contains a definition (a reference, not a claim).

The second part of my signature is a play on words, but even in being a play on words, it does make a strong claim.

Now, making a claim (as I am more than an atheist), I do have a burden of proof. I've given a few points of evidence in my posts here and there. I've been trying to avoid laying them all out in one place, as I expect it will offend a lot of people. If you want to hold me to that burden of proof, I am willing to further discuss it via PM, or an offsite reference, but I'll leave that up to you. Hopefully that is acceptable. If not, do you have an alternate proposal?
Atheism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. (from Greek atheos, from a- 'without' + theos 'god').

Are you an atheist or a theist? If you're a theist, move a little closer to the truth, and become an atheist! :)

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#89

Post by 1over137 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:28 am

Pm me what you think are proofs. And please be patient with my replies.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Atheism: Belief or Position?

#90

Post by RickD » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:04 pm

Atheism:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
They both mean the same thing. If one disbelieves in God, then one believes there is no God. Therefore atheism is a belief.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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