Ok, that puts a different spin on it... but still...B. W. wrote:+
Hi everyone reading this and to answer Kurieuo’s inquiry,
Please let me define what I meant by Lazy Grace.
Lazy Grace refers to people being lackadaisical about the Grace that saved them; therefore, Lazy Grace.
Are they still save? Yes…
Are they confused about works verses grace? Yes…
This makes them lackadaisical about the Grace that saved them…
Nowhere does Scripture teach we are saved "by grace", but rather "by grace through faith." (Ephesians 2:8-10) Thus, if someone has faith in Christ, I fail to see how they could be lackadaisical about God's grace having received God's free gift of forgiveness offered through Christ.
You do here appear to be associating laziness with works rather than simply lackadaisicalness. Trust me, I get what you're saying... and I agree in principle, something just doesn't sit right for me with how you are saying it.B.W. wrote:So much so that one: some will do nothing other than enjoy the ride and from this many become bored, and uninterested, wondering if this is all there to this Christian thing? Two: for others, they become so engrossed in works orientation to perform for God that they burn out and become frustrated, then eventually lazy.
Again, it is "faith in Christ" that saves. It is by God's grace we have forgiveness through Christ...B.W. wrote:God’s Grace saves and the Lord is at work on our hearts, changing us, by grace. From this, we learn to overflow his will and do His works in us, by grace (him working in us), those that get this are not lazy about grace. But are in effect discovering that Ephesians 2:10 is also part of Ephesians 2:8-9…
God works in our heart, and certainly it is through His gracious forgiveness that we are transform and outworking of the Holy Spirit in our lives by whom we are refined. This relationship is between the person whose faith is in Christ and God. And we should encourage other Christians with grace and love, not judgement or in contempt of laziness. I still don't like/get why use such language.
Hmmm. Are you talking from personal experience, or making generalisation of how every Christian is? I can not fathom how one does not awaken to the love of God when they first placed their faith in Him. It seems so strange and foreign to me.B.W. wrote:Whether it be in small or large matters – they are about the Father’s business. Because they learned the hard way that it is He who dwells within that does the works. Most often they arrive at this conclusion due to a state of lazy grace. After they tire of rituals, mindless rhythmic duty of good deeds, or the opposite of being told they can’t do nothing at all so sit in the pew or a bar, don’t matter where, that they become so aggravated and disappointed in their faith that they are confronted to shake off the apathy of lazy grace and uncover active grace within their hearts.
Active Grace is by God’s hands that will make a person active in their faith as well as help each individual discover their purpose and meaning for their life so much so, it changes them to become a better reflection of Christ wherever they were assigned in life. After all, they have realized that God first loved them and from this they awaken to love God and it shows. For this showing, we have a tendency to tell them to be quiet, be still, you are getting into works so become lazy, and then we wonder why we cannot get many involved in the needs and life of a church group, or giving!
This seems to me a contortion. "Free" isn't cheap because it is free. Or more... "unmerited favour isn't cheap because it is unmerited". It doesn't really make sense.B.W. wrote:Grace ain’t Cheap because it is Free.
Rather, it is more correct to say Christ's gift of forgiveness isn't cheap because it is free. It may seem like I'm picking up on nuances to some, but they are very important to understanding the Gospel, in particular for those who don't understand. Sorry B.W., it really wasn't my intention to put you on the spot or criticise, but I see religious Christian terminology being used, but not with its proper meaning. I believe "grace" is not being used correctly in your words.
Forgiveness cost God, not grace. It is by God's grace we are forgiven.B.W. wrote:In summary: Grace cost God (2nd person of the trinity-the Word, task bearer, right arm, etc..) to unite himself to humanity in the role of Messiah (Philippians 2:5-8), from this he exposed our sin nature, by being betrayed, rejected, despised, mocked, beaten, and then dying a terrible death to do this exposing. Then forgives our transgressions against himself as (often also) evidenced in our thoughts actions, deeds toward others at the moment we wake to this truth and trust in Him (his work - grace) as he said – see John 3:15-16.
Furthermore, I'd argue (contrary to popular evangelical thought) that we were forgiven while we were still in our sin. That is, Christ died which brought about forgiveness for all humanity. Those who return to God and receive God's forgiveness through faith in Christ are personally reconciled and saved. (cf. Romans 5:6,10) But they were forgiven while still in their sin before they came to Christ because of Christ's work.
I do not really understand this "be quiet" of which you speak. Perhaps you are talking of personal experiences... and certainly you appear to be quite blessed in the opportunities you are being given in working for the Lord. If there are some calling you to be still, well I'd think that inappropriate. If this being still is what you call a state of laziness, then by all means don't be lazy. I think it wrong however, to extrapolate laziness to a stillness in others, because we do not know how the Holy Spirit is moving in the lives of others. That is between them and God. If your message benefits and touches some, then great!B.W. wrote:We learn to live and move according to Him who dwells in us as we learn to love God because He first loved us so. For this many chide and try to shame those thus touched by God to be quiet, sit still, your too works oriented, become lazy like us. Sorry, those that have discovered this, can’t return to a state of laziness.
Quite convoluted, but if I digest it right I think I can agree with you here.B.W. wrote:We are after all, the arms, legs, feet, mouth, etc, called the body of Christ; Called to reach out doing our Father’s business wherever we have been assigned. Him working thru us, His will, thus transformed - Galatians 1:4, Galatians 4:19, 2 Peter 1:2-9
Those that learn this, know full well that reliance on good works to earn favoritism, brownie points, to canvass God is an affront to God because such legalist works – rituals are an attempt to overthrow God by saying our legalist works – rituals done for God are greater and better than God works. We know he alone saves and have moved beyond the torn veil and begun the journey towards the Holy of Holies.
I defer to my earlier commentsB.W. wrote: We know His Grace ain’t Cheap because it is Free…
May God continue to bless you and your ministry Bryan.
PS. I really didn't intend to stir in any of my comments, please don't take them personally.