Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

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Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#1

Post by edwardmurphy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:02 am

Donald Trump wrote:They didn’t help us with Normandy.
David Ignatius (WaPo) wrote:A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn.

Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.

I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.

And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack--with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it.

He’s falling right into Putin’s hands...again and again.
Franklin Graham wrote:The Kurds are the ones who have been leading the fight against ISIS in Syria. Also pray for the Christians who the Kurds have been protecting. They could be annihilated. Would you pray w/me that Pres. @realDonaldTrump will reconsider? Thousands of lives hang in the balance.
Liz Cheney wrote:News from Syria is sickening. Turkish troops preparing to invade Syria from the north, Russian-backed forces from the south, ISIS fighters attacking Raqqa. Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America's allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS.
Lindsey Graham wrote:America is better than this. Please stand up to Turkey, Mr. President.
Ivanka Trump, 2012 wrote:Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!
Donald Trump, during a 2015 Breitbart interview wrote:I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul. It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.
CNN wrote:As Turkish planes pounded Kurdish positions from the air and with artillery, CNN reporters on the ground in Syria reported smoke billowing from several large explosions as desperate civilians -- women, children and men -- fled the area on foot, some pushing others in wheelchairs, many crammed into the back of pickup trucks.

With humanitarian groups reporting the bombardment could displace as many as 300,000 people, Erdogan's top adviser told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that Trump knew in advance about the scope of the Turkish attack.
Donald Trump wrote:As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!)
Gulnur Aybet (top Erdogan adviser) wrote:President Trump and President Erdogan have reached an understanding over precisely what this operation is. He knows what the scope of this operation is.
Lindsey Graham wrote:I am pleased to have reached a bipartisan agreement with Senator @ChrisVanHollen on severe sanctions against Turkey for their invasion of Syria.

While the Administration refuses to act against Turkey, I expect strong bipartisan support.
Donald Trump wrote:Turkey has been planning to attack the Kurds for a long time. They have been fighting forever. We have no soldiers or Military anywhere near the attack area. I am trying to end the ENDLESS WARS. Talking to both sides. Some want us to send tens of thousands of soldiers to the area and start a new war all over again. Turkey is a member of NATO. Others say STAY OUT, let the Kurds fight their own battles (even with our financial help). I say hit Turkey very hard financially & with sanctions if they don’t play by the rules! I am watching closely.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#2

Post by Stu » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:12 am

This is nothing new, America has betrayed the Kurds 8 times throughout history now. They just don't seem to learn that America cannot be trusted no matter who is in power. America only cares about it's own interests (power, cheap oil, petrodollar, reserve currency) so they befriend or make an enemy with whomever it suits them at the time.

I support Trump (not all his policies) but this is a shocking betrayal of the Kurds.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#3

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:40 am

Stu wrote:
This is nothing new, America has betrayed the Kurds 8 times throughout history now. They just don't seem to learn that America cannot be trusted no matter who is in power. America only cares about it's own interests (power, cheap oil, petrodollar, reserve currency) so they befriend or make an enemy with whomever it suits them at the time.
I agree with Stu.

And I'd also add that we probably know, only what they want us to know.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#4

Post by Philip » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:07 am

Especially now, Trump is in no position to be pursuing policies in opposition to his conservative base - particularly in the Senate. But it's a weird world we live in - Turkey is supposedly our ally (though they really aren't), and we've been supportive of the Kurds as a buffer and ally against terrorism. But Turkey and the Kurds hate each other. I really wonder how much Trump truly listens to his advisors? y:-? Syria is as dysfunctional as a place can be, as is much of the Middleast!

The other question should be: What is the purpose of making a commitment to a country on considers an ally - that is, unless something fundamentally changes for us to pull back from such a commitment. Otherwise, commitments to whatever ally would essentially be meaningless and not worth of any country's trust or confidence.

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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#5

Post by edwardmurphy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:00 am

Philip wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:07 am
Especially now, Trump is in no position to be pursuing policies in opposition to his conservative base - particularly in the Senate.
Trump's base isn't really conservative though. The diehard Trumpers are right wing populists. I doubt that many dedicated members the MAGA crowd will really care about this. America first and all that.

On the other hand, the Senate Republicans mostly are conservatives. They're politicians, so they're pragmatic opportunists and as such they've gone along with a lot of Trump's policy. That doesn't mean that they're happy. So yeah, Trump's decision is absolutely baffling.
Philip wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:07 am
But it's a weird world we live in - Turkey is supposedly our ally (though they really aren't), and we've been supportive of the Kurds as a buffer and ally against terrorism. But Turkey and the Kurds hate each other. I really wonder how much Trump truly listens to his advisors? y:-? Syria is as dysfunctional as a place can be, as is much of the Middle East!
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McCarthy: What the President means is that a clean DACA bill is out of the question.
Trump: Oh, right. Yeah, that's what I meant.

I imagine the same thing happening on the phone with Erdogan, only Kevin McCarthy wasn't sitting at Trump's elbow explaining the repercussions of the moving the troops. This is what happens when a guy who doesn't really understand the issues makes decisions by following his gut.
Philip wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:07 am
The other question should be: What is the purpose of making a commitment to a country on considers an ally - that is, unless something fundamentally changes for us to pull back from such a commitment. Otherwise, commitments to whatever ally would essentially be meaningless and not worth of any country's trust or confidence.
Exactly. This is the kind of thing that foreign policy wonks, diplomats, and generals have been screaming about for 3 years. Every time we break a commitment to an ally we make Russia and China look like better alternatives to working with the US. This decision is a huge win for Turkey, Russia, and Assad, a big loss for American credibility and prestige, and an utter catastrophe for the Kurds.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#6

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:44 am

Here is a statement released by World Council of Arameans (Syriacs).

Syrian Christians Proclaim "Trump is right on Syria!" YPG Kurds are Responsible for Excalation in the Northeast (PDF)
“President Trump is right on Syria!,” according to Johny Messo, the President of the World Council of Arameans (Syriacs) (“WCA”). Withdrawing U.S. troops from Syria and halting financial and arms support to the YPG Kurds may help restore peace and security in Syria. Messo further argues that “the YPG Kurds are responsible for the current escalation in the northeast and that they hold the key for peace in this part of our ancestral homeland.

....
The postscript of the statement is particularly enlightening:
Truth is the first casualty of war. This age-old truism holds especially true for Syria. Its conflict is difficult to grasp because of its multi-dimensional layers. Many states and non-state actors have directly or indirectly, covertly or overtly, been engaged in protecting their own interests.

Usually, this came at the expense of the innocent, unprotected and disregarded minority groups. Among them are the Aramean Christians. The documented history of this Semitic people and their Aramaic language in Northeast Syria and Southeast Turkey goes back to more than 3,000 years. In 2011, Syria’s Christians still numbered 8 to 10% of the 21 million total population. Today, however, in less than a decade, they represent no more than 3 to 5% of the total population of 17 million.

As the indigenous people of this area, our key interest is that our home countries will be free of terrorist groups and activities, that they normalize their relations and return to the pre-2011 security period. This will encourage Arameans and their fellow citizens to return to their homes and contribute to their ancient homeland.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#7

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:49 pm

I've read up on the World Council of Arameans, and they seem to have a point, at least at a glance. I'm not going to pretend to be well versed on the matter. Having said that, I've also read up a bit on Kurdish history. Frankly, I'm not seeing how the Kurds are any different from the Arameans, the Zionists, the Hmong, or really any other persecuted minority group.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#8

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:56 am

Research the PKK and YPG. US has largely supported the YPG, who make up the bulk of the SDF they re-branded under. Now it's being openly admitted that YPG are a PKK offshoot (which is convenient to help justify Trump's withdrawal, but doesn't make it any less true -- it's what Turkey has long said, and many have pointed out over the years including myself).
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#9

Post by Ged » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:14 pm

edwardmurphy wrote: Trump's base isn't really conservative though. The diehard Trumpers are right wing populists. I doubt that many dedicated members the MAGA crowd will really care about this. America first and all that.

On the other hand, the Senate Republicans mostly are conservatives. They're politicians, so they're pragmatic opportunists and as such they've gone along with a lot of Trump's policy. That doesn't mean that they're happy. So yeah, Trump's decision is absolutely baffling.
Insightful but a little on the cynical side. Jeff Flake put his morals before opportunism.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#10

Post by edwardmurphy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:53 pm

The way I remember things Flake's willingness to criticize Trump coincided with his decision not to seek reelection. It's easy to take the high road when you've got no skin in the game. Justin Amash is a good example of political courage, but I haven't seen anything like that from any Senate Republicans.
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Re: Here are some quotes. Anyone with thoughts to share?

#11

Post by edwardmurphy » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:33 pm

I assumed that this was a parody. It's the kind of thing you'd find on The Onion. But no, it's real, because of course it is...

Image

So much weird here.

Trump is threatening Turkey with sanctions if they don't stop the invasion that they wouldn't have started if Trump hadn't moved the troops that were stationed on the border to prevent Turkey from invading. So there's some coherent foreign policy.

And he sounds like a gangster. Again. "Hey that's a nice economy you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it..."

But hey, General Mazloum will be up for negotiating, since we asked those guys to dismantle their fortifications on the Turkish border as part of a plan to create a DMZ, and then suddenly left in the middle of the night. I gave you those guys on a platter, so you kinda own me. Also, here's the confidential letter the General sent me.

Why is Trump suddenly so interested in making Erdogan happy? And Mazloum is the general's first name, isn't it? Did Trump refer to Mattis as General Jim? So weird...

And my favorite part...

Do the right thing or history will think you're the devil. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool!

Followed by...

I will call you later. :pound:

And the punchline is that in the week since he wrote it a bunch of ISIS fighters seem to have escaped, the Kurds have allied themselves with Assad and the Russians, and the USAF is bombing our own stuff to keep the opposition from getting it. So yeah, great week. MAGA, baby!
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