US Withdrawing from Syria

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US Withdrawing from Syria

#1

Post by Kurieuo » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:30 am

:clap: Though we've heard that once before, it looks like he's doubled down on it given Mattis' resignation.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#2

Post by edwardmurphy » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:45 pm

I question the wisdom, and the timing, of this precipitous withdrawal.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#3

Post by Kurieuo » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:47 pm

What's wrong with the timing and what makes the withdrawal precipitous?

I know that'd be the spin from the sources you saturate yourself with. Trump is bad and can't do anything right. However, there is perhaps no better time if the US was ever going to stop meddling in the Middle East to pull out than now. You do agree it'd have been better for the US to just not have meddled in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanastan, etc at all? Isn't such a classic liberal stance? But, because Trump is orchestrating it, it's bad? Come on now?

If anything the timing is late, but better late than never. And dangerous? US wasn't there for ISIS, but Assad. While numbers are meant to be secret, there aren't many US forces in Syria anyhow as I understand. Certainly 2000 (??) isn't keeping everything under control there. Syrian forces and Russia did more to remove ISIS than the US who ultimately created them via ruining Iraq and then with Obama precipitously pulling out. If the US will ever pull out, there is perhaps no better time. I doubt US will pull out completely.

The US are also strategically at the behest of allies like Israel and Saudis (Mattis' concerns it seems), not to mention its own interests vying to control Syria's rich oil reserves and pipelines. It perhaps really isn't in the US best interests to pull out, but then, it is ultimately the moral thing imo - though that often counts for nothing it can be a new page for the US.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#4

Post by DBowling » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:16 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:45 pm
I question the wisdom, and the timing, of this precipitous withdrawal.
Oh... I don't question it at all...
It just shows (once again) that Trump has no clue what he is doing... I do honestly hope that he is not knowingly giving Putin, Assad, Iran and ISIS a Christmas present on purpose.

I don't blame Mattis for resigning. This is yet another example of Trump stabbing US allies in the back.
The problem now is, with the resignation of Mattis there are no longer any adults in the room.

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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#5

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:03 am

IKR? Heaven forbid we love our "enemies" and give them presents. :P

I couldn't be more delighted with Trump's decision.


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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#6

Post by RickD » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:54 am

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Pulling out of nations that we don't belong in, seems like the right thing to do. As opposed to the way the US has been doing things.

Rand Paul seems to be the only one agreeing with Trump on this. And Rand Paul campaigned on an isolationist platform.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#7

Post by DBowling » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:53 am

RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:54 am
Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Pulling out of nations that we don't belong in, seems like the right thing to do. As opposed to the way the US has been doing things.

Rand Paul seems to be the only one agreeing with Trump on this. And Rand Paul campaigned on an isolationist platform.
Abandoning allies in Syria who depend on the support of the United States, and leaving them to be slaughtered does not strike me as either loving or beneficial to the reputation of the United States with our allies.

When our country gives our word to our allies it should mean something.
Trump has repeatedly demonstrated what his word is worth.

This is a betrayal of our allies.
Lots of people who trusted in the US are going to get killed because of this.

And Trump is giving ISIS a chance to recuperate.
We've been down this road before when Obama bailed on Iraq and handed it over to ISIS.

There is nothing remotely moral or loving about what Trump is doing to our allies in Syria.

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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#8

Post by RickD » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:00 am

DBowling wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:53 am
RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:54 am
Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Pulling out of nations that we don't belong in, seems like the right thing to do. As opposed to the way the US has been doing things.

Rand Paul seems to be the only one agreeing with Trump on this. And Rand Paul campaigned on an isolationist platform.
Abandoning allies in Syria who depend on the support of the United States, and leaving them to be slaughtered does not strike me as either loving or beneficial to the reputation of the United States with our allies.

When our country gives our word to our allies it should mean something.
Trump has repeatedly demonstrated what his word is worth.

This is a betrayal of our allies.
Lots of people who trusted in the US are going to get killed because of this.

And Trump is giving ISIS a chance to recuperate.
We've been down this road before when Obama bailed on Iraq and handed it over to ISIS.

There is nothing remotely moral or loving about what Trump is doing to our allies in Syria.
Then I guess I AM missing something. What exactly did Trump promise in Syria, and to whom did he make that promise?
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#9

Post by DBowling » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:37 am

RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:00 am
Then I guess I AM missing something. What exactly did Trump promise in Syria, and to whom did he make that promise?
The real question is... what commitments did the United States make to our allies in Syria.
And is Trump following through on US commitments or abandoning US commitments.

Now Trump did make campaign promises to his nationalist base about Syria.
And if Trump does want to withdraw from Syria (repeating Obama's mistake which ended up costing more lives and more troops) then there are more harmful and less harmful ways of doing it.
Telling the person who wants to slaughter our allies in Syria, "they are all yours" over the phone is not even pretending to consider US commitments to our allies. And that is why Mattis resigned.

In my opinion the endorsement of Rand Paul is just additional evidence of how misinformed and misguided Trump's policy in Syria is.
Obama's mistake in Iraq should have demonstrated to everyone that leaving a power vacuum in Syria for ISIS to fill will only lead to the reestablishment of the ISIS caliphate. And that will again give ISIS a solid base of operations from which they can export terror to the Western world.

This reminds me of the colioquial definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#10

Post by edwardmurphy » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:56 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:47 pm
What's wrong with the timing and what makes the withdrawal precipitous?
The timing is suspicious because there are a lot of things happening right now - the Mueller investigation, the economy slowing down, a recent Blue Wave, etc. - that Trump doesn't want people to be talking about. That makes the withdrawal seem like maybe, just maybe, it's primarily a political maneuver by a selfish narcissist who doesn't know or care about foreign policy and just wants his supporters to like him.

As far as it being precipitous, this has all the marks of being a sudden, impulsive decision. Most of his own administration was blindsided, as were all of our allies. His Secretary of Defense - a man who knows vastly more about international relations in general and the Middle East in particular - opted to resign. His resignation letter makes it clear that he's completely opposed to Trump's newest plan. Ditto for Brett McGurk, the U.S. envoy for the global coalition to defeat ISIS. He resigned in protest. I imagine that the American diplomats who are currently in negotiations with the Taliban, attempting to work out a negotiated peace between the Taliban and the Afghan government, are also pretty peeved to have their best bargaining chip suddenly given away for nothing.
Kurieuo wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:47 pm
I know that'd be the spin from the sources you saturate yourself with. Trump is bad and can't do anything right.


I don't need the media to convince me that Trump can't do anything right. I have Trump's own words and actions, and that's more than sufficient. He speaks n word salads, he lies constantly, and his own words make it clear that he really doesn't understand much of anything other than marketing, reality television, and New York real estate.
Kurieuo wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:47 pm
However, there is perhaps no better time if the US was ever going to stop meddling in the Middle East to pull out than now. You do agree it'd have been better for the US to just not have meddled in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanastan, etc at all? Isn't such a classic liberal stance? But, because Trump is orchestrating it, it's bad? Come on now?
I'm not a classic liberal, and my stances are generally my own. As far as our involvement in the Middle East goes, yeah, we should have stayed out in the first place, but we didn't so that no longer matters. What we actually did was destabilize the entire region, leaving it wide open to all kinds of rapid, chaotic changes that don't benefit the United States or our allies. Walking away now basically cedes any opportunity to take a leadership roll or influence events to the Turks, Iranians and Russians. That's not in our national interest. Besides, we made a hell of a mess, and I think we have a responsibility to help clean it up.
Kurieuo wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:47 pm
The US are also strategically at the behest of allies like Israel and Saudis (Mattis' concerns it seems), not to mention its own interests vying to control Syria's rich oil reserves and pipelines. It perhaps really isn't in the US best interests to pull out, but then, it is ultimately the moral thing imo - though that often counts for nothing it can be a new page for the US.
I firmly believe that American exceptionalism is ridiculous, delusional nonsense, and I'm well aware of how frequently the United States has run roughshod over other countries. That said, it's also false to claim that behaving morally would be a new page for the United States. Beyond that, I disagree that a sudden withdrawal would be moral. As DBowling said, it would leave our allies in the lurch. It could also result in more chaos, rather than less.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#11

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:04 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:30 am
:clap: Though we've heard that once before, it looks like he's doubled down on it given Mattis' resignation.
Not to toot my horn,but I predicted this months ago from following Q.As I explained before ,Trump is not a Neo-con and it is a shock that Democrats such as Ed are now.Before Trump Democrats were for pulling out the troops and were not pro war and yet look at Ed's posts questioning this withdrawal now that Trump is in.

This is a sign that the Deep State has lost power and Q and the Trump team are more in control.Remember me explaining how every day Trump and the Patriots are gaining power over the Deep State but the Deep State can still cause false flag attacks to destract and clog up the news cycle? Well it is getting harder and harder for the Deep State to stop or effect things like they used to.Think Keshoggi assasination in Syria to try to keep us in Syria and to try to cause friction between Saudi Arabia and The US beause of so low of gas prices and it did not work.

Gas prices are now lower here in America than when both Bush and Obama were President and it is because Trump puts America first and will not allow the Saudi's to manipulate our gas prices while we provide military protection for their country. Trump won't allow them to take advantage of America like past President's did.So the Deep State tried to cause a war between Saudi Arabia and America and it did not work.

We are all about taking care of America first and only going to war if America is threatened,not to get bogged down in useless wars that cost billions and does not keep America safe but is a Deep State agenda that both Republicans and Democrats carry out committing treason to the US Constitution,America and the American people.They think the laws only apply to "We the people" but they are wrong and will find out soon enough.

Oh and Kelly will be fine and you could see him in the future having to do with military tribunals for treason and sedition against the US Constitution.Trump is faking them out. While they think there are fractures in the Trump admin military tribunals are being set up.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#12

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:19 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:04 pm
Not to toot my horn,but I predicted this months ago from following Q.As I explained before ,Trump is not a Neo-con and it is a shock that Democrats such as Ed are now.Before Trump Democrats were for pulling out the troops and were not pro war and yet look at Ed's posts questioning this withdrawal now that Trump is in.
Abe! I forgot to unblock you after the midterms like I said I would. My bad. Anyway...

I'm not pro-war. Bush shouldn't have invaded Iraq with no exit plan in place other than a vague dream of spreading democracy. He shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan, either. We shouldn't have massively overreacted to the 9/11 attacks and thrown ourselves into an open-ended war against nobody in particular and with no clear goals or exit strategy. Obama shouldn't have gone all-in on drones and started bombing everybody, everywhere. But all of that happened, and now we're in it up to our elbows. That means that we have some responsibilities, not to mention interest in the outcome, so we can't just unilaterally decide to walk away. Accepting reality isn't the same as liking or supporting it.

Q is a hoax. Almost all of his predictions have either failed to occur or been wrong. People who still believe in Q are delusional. So yeah, don't be tooting your own horn. You've got nothing to toot about. Obstinate gullibility and deliberate ignorance aren't things to be proud of.

As far as Sideshow Don putting America first, I guess we see things differently. To me putting America first means protecting our natural resources and environment, strengthening the alliances that help us to stay safe and prosperous, and working to create a society that is more just and equitable and therefore more prosperous, resilient, and stable. Trump has failed utterly on every one of those things. He's deliberately divisive, he sows chaos everywhere he goes, and he can't even identify our interests, much less defend them. He's tirelessly attacked the ACA without even pretending to have anything to replace it. He signed a tax bill that blew up the deficit and the debt and benefited the wealthiest 1% at the expense of the rest of us. He's dragged us into a trade war. He's feuding with the Fed. He's even musing about closing the border with Mexico. The man is a catastrophe.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#13

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:33 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:19 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:04 pm
Not to toot my horn,but I predicted this months ago from following Q.As I explained before ,Trump is not a Neo-con and it is a shock that Democrats such as Ed are now.Before Trump Democrats were for pulling out the troops and were not pro war and yet look at Ed's posts questioning this withdrawal now that Trump is in.
Abe! I forgot to unblock you after the midterms like I said I would. My bad. Anyway...

I'm not pro-war. Bush shouldn't have invaded Iraq with no exit plan in place other than a vague dream of spreading democracy. He shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan, either. We shouldn't have massively overreacted to the 9/11 attacks and thrown ourselves into an open-ended war against nobody in particular and with no clear goals or exit strategy. Obama shouldn't have gone all-in on drones and started bombing everybody, everywhere. But all of that happened, and now we're in it up to our elbows. That means that we have some responsibilities, not to mention interest in the outcome, so we can't just unilaterally decide to walk away. Accepting reality isn't the same as liking or supporting it.

Q is a hoax. Almost all of his predictions have either failed to occur or been wrong. People who still believe in Q are delusional. So yeah, don't be tooting your own horn. You've got nothing to toot about. Obstinate gullibility and deliberate ignorance aren't things to be proud of.

As far as Sideshow Don putting America first, I guess we see things differently. To me putting America first means protecting our natural resources and environment, strengthening the alliances that help us to stay safe and prosperous, and working to create a society that is more just and equitable and therefore more prosperous, resilient, and stable. Trump has failed utterly on every one of those things. He's deliberately divisive, he sows chaos everywhere he goes, and he can't even identify our interests, much less defend them. He's tirelessly attacked the ACA without even pretending to have anything to replace it. He signed a tax bill that blew up the deficit and the debt and benefited the wealthiest 1% at the expense of the rest of us. He's dragged us into a trade war. He's feuding with the Fed. He's even musing about closing the border with Mexico. The man is a catastrophe.
You are pro-war now just because you don't like Trump and don't understand the agenda he ran on and won on. You're too blind to see that it is both Republican and Democrat policies that got us into the mess we are in in and so it is hard for me to actually see people like you try to prop up old outdated policies that made things worse for America and overlook how we are not going back to them old outdated policy decisions that you are defending. We have moved on and it is not politics as usual. Trump ran on and is carrying out a totally new agenda for America and we support it. It is nothing like the old failed agendas of both parties. Stop tring to prop up and defend old polical ideas that did not work like you are doing because we not not going to keep on doing the same things over and over that did not work like you want to. It is time you realize this.
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#14

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:02 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:33 am
You are pro-war now just because you don't like Trump and don't understand the agenda he ran on and won on.
I don't understand Trump's agenda? Abe, Trump's most specific and detailed plans could be written on a post-it note with a dull crayon. What is there to understand?
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Re: US Withdrawing from Syria

#15

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:29 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:02 pm
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:33 am
You are pro-war now just because you don't like Trump and don't understand the agenda he ran on and won on.
I don't understand Trump's agenda? Abe, Trump's most specific and detailed plans could be written on a post-it note with a dull crayon. What is there to understand?

It is not Republican or Democrat ideas,it is Nationalism - putting America and the American people first.Of course,we are transitioning away from the faiiled politics of the past but it takes time.Donald Trump fights every day for the ideas he ran on which are all about putting America first instead of the Deep State like in the past.The Democrats you support refuse to put America and the American people first like the US Constitution says they should do. Your Democrat leaders are traitors to the US Constitution they swore to uphold and defend but have totally abandoned it and instead of putting US citezens first they put illegal immigrants first.It is treason and they should be prosecuted for it.You cannot swear to uphold and defend the US Constitution when you're sworn into office and then abandon it is a Federal crime to do so. It does not matter why you are doing it,how much money you're being paid,or being blackmailed,etc,it is a real Federal Crime. It is no different than if somebody was paying you to rob a bank you would be prosecuted for it regardless.And this is not just name calling like you Democrats do to us calling us racists,bigots,deplorables,etc this is real treason going on and it is a crime.
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