Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

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Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#1

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Dawkins Twittered: Listening to the lovely bells of Winchester, one of our great mediaeval cathedrals. So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding “Allahu Akhbar.” Or is that just my cultural upbringing?

Seems like the pharisaical extreme left crucified Dawkins for his "racist" comments. So what do you think?
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#2

Post by RickD » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Of course it's his cultural upbringing.

Don't you remember when President Obama said that the Muslim call to prayer is one of the prettiest sounds on earth?

That was because of his cultural upbringing, because Obama is clearly a Christian.

The same goes for me. I grew up in the most catholic state in the US. I've been to Christmas midnight mass at a Catholic Church in my home town, and those Christmas hymns were amazing on Christmas Eve.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#3

Post by edwardmurphy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:44 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:45 pm
Seems like the pharisaical extreme left crucified Dawkins for his "racist" comments. So what do you think?
Seems like somebody got a word a day calendar...
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#4

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:56 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:44 pm
Kurieuo wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:45 pm
Seems like the pharisaical extreme left crucified Dawkins for his "racist" comments. So what do you think?
Seems like somebody got a word a day calendar...
Which word did you get today?
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#5

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 pm

Ed, while you're here, on a more serious note, do you find his words racist? If so, why? Honest questions.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#6

Post by edwardmurphy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:37 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 pm
Ed, while you're here, on a more serious note, do you find his words racist? If so, why? Honest questions.
No, I don't consider his words racist. In fact, I think his comment was the antithesis of racism. I think he was making the point that what we find pleasant or discomfiting is influenced by our cultural upbringing. The implication is that we need to be aware of our cultural biases.

I lived in Mexico for six months and was frequently appalled by things that violated my ingrained cultural norms. The noise, the vendors blocking the sidewalks, the constant interruptions by kids selling Chiclets and flowers, the people jamming in next to you on a bus, and nobody waiting their turn in the men's room at a soccer game or holding a door open sometimes made me very uncomfortable. I'm from neat, orderly, polite New Hampshire, and Mexican cultural norms were, at times, really jolting. That doesn't mean that I hated Mexico or Mexicans, just that sometimes the way they did things left me with a sense of wrongness. It wasn't at all what I was used to. After a while, though, I got used to it. In fact, I acclimated to the point that when I got home the streets of Minneapolis felt kind of empty and sterile. There's a lot to like about life in a Mexican city once you get your head around the differences.

And by the way, I'm no fan of Islam or Christianity, but I mostly like the bells and I agree with President Obama that the Muslim call to prayer can be hauntingly beautiful. If you've never heard one you should check it out.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#7

Post by neo-x » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:39 am

Islam is not a race, nor are muslims.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#8

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:59 am

neo-x wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:39 am
Islam is not a race, nor are muslims.
I know, was just going with the stupidity of other people calling Dawkins racist and the general sentiments of what they mean when they call him racist. I'm sure Ed also understands it isn't a race issue.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#9

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:09 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:37 pm
Kurieuo wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 pm
Ed, while you're here, on a more serious note, do you find his words racist? If so, why? Honest questions.
No, I don't consider his words racist. In fact, I think his comment was the antithesis of racism. I think he was making the point that what we find pleasant or discomfiting is influenced by our cultural upbringing. The implication is that we need to be aware of our cultural biases.

I lived in Mexico for six months and was frequently appalled by things that violated my ingrained cultural norms. The noise, the vendors blocking the sidewalks, the constant interruptions by kids selling Chiclets and flowers, the people jamming in next to you on a bus, and nobody waiting their turn in the men's room at a soccer game or holding a door open sometimes made me very uncomfortable. I'm from neat, orderly, polite New Hampshire, and Mexican cultural norms were, at times, really jolting. That doesn't mean that I hated Mexico or Mexicans, just that sometimes the way they did things left me with a sense of wrongness. It wasn't at all what I was used to. After a while, though, I got used to it. In fact, I acclimated to the point that when I got home the streets of Minneapolis felt kind of empty and sterile. There's a lot to like about life in a Mexican city once you get your head around the differences.

And by the way, I'm no fan of Islam or Christianity, but I mostly like the bells and I agree with President Obama that the Muslim call to prayer can be hauntingly beautiful. If you've never heard one you should check it out.
I prefer the chant of Chinese monks, even if being Christian I think they're deceived.

Islam as I see is tainted with violence, no matter the naive innocence of a practicing Muslim, so I'm not sure I could find anything beautiful about it -- except the actual humanity in the persons themselves. We're all human and share in that.

I think Dawkins just found himself in the vicinity of a church bell, and the thought went into his head that he actually doesn't mind it even though it's Christian (which he doesn't like). Then thinking up a Muslim equivilent Allahu Akhbar came to mind, which produced a quite different feeling (given it is often marred by a Muslim about to blow themselves up).

I think Dawkins knew voicing his experience would cause a stir, and just wanted to see how much of one it would cause. The outrage is pretty dumb to me, but acts as a type of verification to me that the "inquisition" today exists kind of on the side of an extreme left ideology. I'm not even sure it should be called "left", for if one means "liberal" by that -- it is anything but. Nonetheless, for lack of a better label of the underpinning ideas...
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#10

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:25 am

I think that Dawkins understands the difference between what people do BECAUSE of what their religion teaches and what people do IN SPITE of what their religion teaches.

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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#11

Post by B. W. » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:48 am

He should move to an Islamic country and practice his system of belief there.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#12

Post by edwardmurphy » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:22 am

B. W. wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:48 am
He should move to an Islamic country and practice his system of belief there.
It's interesting that you'd say that, since you seem to object to him practicing his system of belief here at least as much as the average Middle Easterner would object to it over there. I get the strong sense that people like me have the freedom to openly disbelieve because people like you are a small minority.

Am I wrong, B.W.?
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#13

Post by RickD » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:25 am

I think B.W. was making a point that he wouldn't have the same freedoms in a Muslim country, that he has in the west.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#14

Post by edwardmurphy » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:32 am

I know he was. And I was making the point that, based on 4 years of reading his words, I get the sense that he'd deny me those freedoms if he had half a chance. It's the logical extension of his oft-repeated belief that I'm an evil leftie who wants to destroy America. If I'm an enemy of our nation then I should be suppressed, should I not? Not to do so would be irresponsible.
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Re: Richard Dawkins: Church Bells vs Allahu Akhbar?

#15

Post by B. W. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:57 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:32 am
I know he was. And I was making the point that, based on 4 years of reading his words, I get the sense that he'd deny me those freedoms if he had half a chance. It's the logical extension of his oft-repeated belief that I'm an evil leftie who wants to destroy America. If I'm an enemy of our nation then I should be suppressed, should I not? Not to do so would be irresponsible.
Ed, you still post here don't you?

For four years... deny you?

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