Have we crossed the line yet?

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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#91

Post by edwardmurphy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:18 pm

The Constitution guarantees us the right to speak our minds without government interference. That's why I can say "Donald J. Trump is an incompetent, traitorous half-wit and the world would be a better place if he had an aneurysm and died" without fear of the secret police knocking on my door.

Twitter is not the government. Neither is Facebook, or Snapchat, YouTube, or the A&E Network, or your boss, or your neighbors, or the strangers who read stuff you write on the Internet. There's nothing, generally speaking, preventing any of the aforementioned entities, groups, or individuals from banning, firing, shunning, or mocking you. If, for example, I say "Donald J. Trump is an incompetent, traitorous half-wit and the world would be a better place if he had an aneurysm and died" on these forums I'd likely get some strong push back. I might not care for that push back, but it wouldn't mean that free speech was under assault.

Your free speech has not been taken away. Your speech just has consequences, same as it always has. The "problem" is that what you can say without getting flack from your neighbors or losing your job has changed, and some people are angry about that. It used to be that saying stuff like "I'm a homosexual" got you mocked, shunned, and fired. Now it's other stuff. Stuff that people might, for example, want to say about homosexuals. But that's just details. The overall situation hasn't changed a bit, just the details.

And there's no connection between shadow banning and free speech.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#92

Post by Stu » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:08 am

They are shadow banning and now outright banning many right-leaning accounts now.

It seems this is only the beginning. And some stupid Democrat has called for plenty more banning. Idiot.

TWITTER SUSPENDS RON PAUL INSTITUTE EXECUTIVE’S ACCOUNT, ONE DAY AFTER BIG TECH BLOCKS INFOWARS

For instance you can say almost anything against white people (new employee at the NYT) but swap that with Muslims or any other group and you are immediately suspended. It's all getting a little ridiculous now.

CANDACE OWENS SWAPS “WHITE” FOR “JEWISH” IN SARAH JEONG TWEET, GETS SUSPENDED
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#93

Post by Philip » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:55 am

For a truly free society, there are some forms of speech that make us less free and less safe. But there is also great danger in legally banning certain speech because those who disagree with whatever take on things will always be eager to ban what you say. So there's a fine line somewhere, and a judgment call must be made as to where that line should be.

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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#94

Post by edwardmurphy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:29 am

Agreed, but there's no legal banning taking place here.

Alex Jones has the right to spew crazy nonsense in order to sell supplements, but that hardly obligates Twitter and Apple to give him a platform to do it.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#95

Post by Stu » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:50 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:29 am
Agreed, but there's no legal banning taking place here.

Alex Jones has the right to spew crazy nonsense in order to sell supplements, but that hardly obligates Twitter and Apple to give him a platform to do it.
The argument that has been made for a while now is that when companies reach such large audiences and effectively become the news, and that without access to these platforms voices are silenced - that it then becomes subject to the same rules as the government and must abide by the same rules as government as they in effect become a sort of public utility. The public have a right to access these platforms.

But it seems banning Infowars is having the opposite effect as Infowars' app is at number 4, ahead of other "news" agencies.

INFOWARS OFFICIAL APP JUMPS TO NUMBER 4 — DOMINATES CNN, NYT, ABC

Hopefully the Streisand effect kicks into high gear.

"Here is where the free-speech angle enters the scene: suppose a member of a favored minority (fill in that blank yourself) launched a podcast mercilessly attacking “traditional American values” and those Americans who support those values. Would Facebook or You Tube lift a finger to stop them? No? Then why attack Alex Jones?

The answer is simple.

This issue is not about Jones engaging in “hate speech” or “violating community standards.”

It’s about whose speech and ideas are favored and whose are opposed."
Last edited by Stu on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#96

Post by RickD » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:52 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:29 am
Agreed, but there's no legal banning taking place here.

Alex Jones has the right to spew crazy nonsense in order to sell supplements, but that hardly obligates Twitter and Apple to give him a platform to do it.
Alex Jones sells supplements?

Do they give one paranoia, and crazy conspiratorial thoughts?
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#97

Post by edwardmurphy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:48 pm

Here are the results of an independent analysis of some InfoWars brand supplements.

I'm sorry to say, there's no evidence that any of it causes paranoia or crazy conspiratorial thoughts. There could be a placebo effect at work, though. Most of it's just useless, and the stuff that isn't can be purchased at the drug store for 1/3 the price.

Alex Jones is an ******* through and through. He tells dangerous, damaging lies in order to gull paranoid fools into buying overpriced garbage.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#98

Post by Stu » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:26 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:48 pm
Here are the results of an independent analysis of some InfoWars brand supplements.

I'm sorry to say, there's no evidence that any of it causes paranoia or crazy conspiratorial thoughts. There could be a placebo effect at work, though. Most of it's just useless, and the stuff that isn't can be purchased at the drug store for 1/3 the price.

Alex Jones is an ******* through and through. He tells dangerous, damaging lies in order to gull paranoid fools into buying overpriced garbage.
LOL The "lies" have nothing to do with him selling stuff. People buy the products because they want to support the infowar, not because of the info he deals out.

You know just like CNN takes bribe money from Saudi Arabia so that CNN doesn't air any negative stories about them, or takes money from big pharma.

But I would say Alex's way seems more tasteful.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#99

Post by B. W. » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:51 am

edwardmurphy wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:18 pm
The Constitution guarantees us the right to speak our minds without government interference. That's why I can say "Donald J. Trump is an incompetent, traitorous half-wit and the world would be a better place if he had an aneurysm and died" without fear of the secret police knocking on my door.

Twitter is not the government. Neither is Facebook, or Snapchat, YouTube, or the A&E Network, or your boss, or your neighbors, or the strangers who read stuff you write on the Internet. There's nothing, generally speaking, preventing any of the aforementioned entities, groups, or individuals from banning, firing, shunning, or mocking you. If, for example, I say "Donald J. Trump is an incompetent, traitorous half-wit and the world would be a better place if he had an aneurysm and died" on these forums I'd likely get some strong push back. I might not care for that push back, but it wouldn't mean that free speech was under assault.

Your free speech has not been taken away. Your speech just has consequences, same as it always has. The "problem" is that what you can say without getting flack from your neighbors or losing your job has changed, and some people are angry about that. It used to be that saying stuff like "I'm a homosexual" got you mocked, shunned, and fired. Now it's other stuff. Stuff that people might, for example, want to say about homosexuals. But that's just details. The overall situation hasn't changed a bit, just the details.

And there's no connection between shadow banning and free speech.
Question to Ed why site devoted to antifa, Maxine Waters videos, George Soros supported funded group who advocate violence not shut down or shadowed banned...

Here is the Tech Giant Purge List of Prominent Conservative Websites

Back in April this came out:
Will 'Christian Speech' Be Allowed in the New Facebook World?

Why is Ed's side allowed free speech when others who oppose it - are denied?

In Ed's side point of view - it is justified revenge against the oppressors based on the reasoning principles of the moral equivalence fallacy...

How many people will have to die until the justified revenge is served?
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#100

Post by Stu » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 am

Is this what the left and Democrats have been reduced to...

I have never seen something so utterly pathetic before, or very close to it anyway. Ed must be so proud of his fellow liberals.
Shouting "**** white supremacy!" at a black lady. Genius.

But THIS is what Maxine Waters called for. Opposing viewpoints are not allowed in the new America. Conform or get harassed.

And don't tell me this represents a small segment of the population - we have conservative speakers not allowed to speak at universities (that is an entire body of people); the conservatives have to protected by police; then there is Antifa (a group of people) who are country wide who harass anyone with an opposing view; there are Democrat politicians calling for this; we now have conservatives being shadow banned and outright banned on social media.

Watch the video it is unbelievable. There is strong language.
The irony of course is that Candace Owens would talk circles around these screeching, shouting, harassing, assaulting idiots.




Antifa Mob Attack Against Black Conservative Woman At Philly Restaurant Ignored By Liberal Media That Was Outraged Over Starbucks Incident

This is Maxine Waters’ America,' With Conservatives Being Attacked While Eating Out.

Turning Point USA’s Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens were having a quiet, peaceful breakfast in Philadelphia on Monday, when a mob of approximately 25-30 people gathered with megaphones and chased them out of the coffee shop, then proceeded too attack them, throwing water and an egg at Kirk, who is white, and screaming vile, racist attacks against Owens, who is an African American woman.

Early on Monday, Candace Owens sent a message out via Twitter with a video that captured the incident, showing the police, largely made up of black and Hispanic officers, also being verbally attacked by the group as they stood in front of Owens and Kirk to protect them.

Her message was "Charlie Kirk and I just got ATTACKED and protested by ANTIFA for eating breakfast. They are currently following us through Philly. ALL BLACK AND HISPANIC police force protecting us as they scream 'f*ck the racist police'."

Both Kirk and Owens joined Sean Hannity to describe what took place.

“Water thrown on myself, they threw an egg at me. Here’s the interesting part, Candace and I were just minding our own business. We were just having a quiet breakfast and they mobilized within 20 or 30 minutes, at least 50 of them, came into the restaurant and started calling Candace a Nazi, which I can’t figure out how on earth they would come to that conclusion,” Kirk stated.

“They drove us out of the restaurant and Candace and I said ‘let’s just stand here for a couple minutes and show them that we are not going to back down.’ Very peacefully we are not going to retaliate if things get thrown at us. Little did we know we’d actually have stuff thrown at us,” he continued. “We don’t want to play the victim card here, that’s what the left does all the time. This is what’s called on by Maxine Waters.”

The reference to Maxine Waters is about her statements to supporters that Trump administration officials should be confronted by mobs of liberals at gas stations, grocery stores and restaurants.

Owens then added "This is Maxine Waters’ America. We thought it was an important moment to show America exactly what we are fighting because not many people understand this is real. They’ve grown increasingly violent because they’re losing."

WHERE IS THE MEDIA OUTRAGE OVER A BLACK WOMAN BEING ATTACKED?

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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#101

Post by edwardmurphy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:35 pm

Stu wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:26 am
LOL The "lies" have nothing to do with him selling stuff. People buy the products because they want to support the infowar, not because of the info he deals out.
So maybe he should just solicit donations rather than selling useless, overpriced supplements. Or he could just sell supplements without making any false or exaggerated claims. Or he could sell them for a reasonable price.

Sorry Stu, but there's just no way that taking a bottle of iodine, giving it a fancy name, tripling the price, and marketing it specifically to gullible rubes is anything other than shady. The info war is a bunch of batcrap crazy nonsense that Alex Jones probably doesn't even believe. The whole thing is a scam.

Regarding the rest of your post, show me some evidence that those things happened - NOT EVIDENCE FROM INFOWARS - and I'll look it over.
B. W. wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:51 am
Question to Ed why site devoted to antifa, Maxine Waters videos, George Soros supported funded group who advocate violence not shut down or shadowed banned...

I don't know. I don't decide policy for Apple or YouTube, and the people who do forgot to call me and explain themselves. My best guess is that the site you're describing - I have no idea what it is - is other than how you describe it. You do, after all, have a well documented tendency to make stuff up and/or view the world through a cracked pair of crazy-goggles.
B. W. wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:51 am
Why is Ed's side allowed free speech when others who oppose it - are denied?
Well, in the case of Alex Jones it's probably because he's an evil, lying, scumbag snake oil salesman and hosting his content was bad PR for YouTube and Apple. They're businesses. They don't like bad press. Granted, dropping Lyin' Alex will give them plenty of bad PR, but they must have figured keeping him around would be worse.

Also, I don't really have a side. There's no party that aligns with all of my views, and "liberal" is way, way too broad a category to be considered a side. I'm an individual.
B. W. wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:51 am
In Ed's side point of view - it is justified revenge against the oppressors based on the reasoning principles of the moral equivalence fallacy...
Actually, from my point of view it was probably a bad move, since it allows a piece of trash conman to play the martyr. I'm not working to fit it into some broader context because I'm not a wildly partisan, paranoid loon obsessed with collecting grievances and demonstrating my victimhood.
B. W. wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:51 am
How many people will have to die until the justified revenge is served?
People have to die because YouTube no longer hosts Alex Jones videos...?
Stu wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 am
Is this what the left and Democrats have been reduced to...

I have never seen something so utterly pathetic before, or very close to it anyway. Ed must be so proud of his fellow liberals.
Stu, this is getting absurd. It's easy to cherry pick examples of people you don't like acting like asses, especially if you lump them into some vague category that contains a hundred million distinct individuals and pretend that they're all the same. I could use the same technique and match you story for story, but I'm not going to because it's stupid and pointless.

And no, Stu, I'm not proud of those people, nor are they my "fellow liberals." I have literally nothing to do with any of them. They do not represent me, and their behavior does not in any way reflect on me. Your statement is as asinine and nonsensical as asking a vegetarian if he's proud of fellow vegetarian Adolph Hitler's attempt to exterminate the Jews.

Grow up, Stu.

And for what it's worth, if I'd been there I'd have happily chucked eggs at everyone involved.
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#102

Post by Stu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:44 am

Yeah sorry Ed but you keep on saying that, but the evidence says otherwise.

This is not just one or two people we are talking about, these are institutions, politicians, teachers, lecturers, GROUPS (as in more than one person) of people, etc.

Remember when Trump was elected you had huge rallies opposing Trump. I'm not saying they don't have the right to oppose Trump or rally, they do, but don't tell me that that people like that don't exist in large groups.

Remember that lady who #walked away, and her own mother used the fact that she was biracial against her. Her own mother! Let me post it again:




These are examples of a wider issue, being pushed by the liberal media and Democrats.


And on another note, some good news for Alex Jones, his banishment has lead to a huge increase in subscribers, 5.6 million to be exact :)
Alex Jones Claims 5.6 Million New Infowars Subscribers Since Big Tech Blacklisting

Alex Jones claims 5.6 million people have subscribed to his free Infowars newsletter and podcast over the last 48 hours.
These 48 hours have been crucial for Jones, as the Big Tech monopolies and left-wing news outlets like CNN and BuzzFeed have joined forces to blacklist/erase Infowars from the public square.

Jones and Infowars have had their accounts canceled – have been effectively purged and erased – from YouTube, Facebook, Apple, LinkedIn, Spotify, Stitcher, and Pinterest. Even the emailing service MailChimp blacklisted Jones, in what has been a highly effective and coordinated media/Big Tech campaign to silence a vocal Trump supporter.

Speaking to the Daily Mail, Jones said Wednesday, “The good news is Infowars has had the highest traffic it’s ever had – 5.6 million new subscribers in the past 48 hours – and so has my radio show.”

Jones added, “De-platforming doesn’t do anything, we already have the subscribers, it doesn’t do very much.”

...

As of right now, Infowars is the number one trending app per Google, and the number three news app available on Apple.

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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#103

Post by RickD » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:22 am

Does the idea that some want to silence a lunatic, make that person less of a lunatic?
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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#104

Post by Stu » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:15 am

RickD wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:22 am
Does the idea that some want to silence a lunatic, make that person less of a lunatic?
Hey Alex is just saying what the Bible describes will happen in the end times.

GOOGLE SEARCHES FOR ‘INFOWARS’ SKYROCKET AFTER TECH PURGE

Image


Searches for the Infowars website rose 1,300 percent in the past 7 days while, interestingly enough, the term “Streisand effect” increased 2,150 percent during the same time period.

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Re: Have we crossed the line yet?

#105

Post by DBowling » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:04 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:15 am
RickD wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:22 am
Does the idea that some want to silence a lunatic, make that person less of a lunatic?
Hey Alex is just saying what the Bible describes will happen in the end times.
I'd never thought of it that way before, but the misinformation that Alex Jones constantly perpetuates does bear a strong resemblance to what Paul talks about in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

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