Iran vs. Israel

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#31

Post by RickD » Mon May 14, 2018 5:01 pm

Philip wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:55 pm
Well, he admits it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... stage.html
The Daily Mail is a tabloid, you crazy neocon!

It's No wonder that you take sides with the Zionists and their U.S. Bully bodyguard.

Any pro-Israel news source cannot be trusted!
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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#32

Post by Philip » Mon May 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Any pro-Israel news source cannot be trusted!
It's news section is not tabloid - and the Daily Mail is VERY anti-Israel!

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#33

Post by RickD » Tue May 15, 2018 5:14 am

Philip wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:00 pm
Any pro-Israel news source cannot be trusted!
It's news section is not tabloid - and the Daily Mail is VERY anti-Israel!
Typical right wing American answer.

Melanie has gotten me to change my position on this. Her "unbiased" opinion has gotten me to see the real Israel. I used to think the Jews were an oppressed people. You know, the whole Nazi thing. And I used to think Israel was surrounded by nations that wanted her annihilation.

But now I see the light! Israel is the bully. They're constantly attacking other nations without being provoked.

I also see these extreme Muslim terrorist groups in a new light too. They're the real victims. All they want to do is live in peace.

Oh how I've been so wrong!
:shijacked:
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#34

Post by melanie » Fri May 18, 2018 11:08 am

When your talking about the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people, not just Muslims but Christians too as although in the minority there are Palestinian Christians. When their land and homes which have been taken, proven land owned for generations as some long standing legal battles prove but yet they’ve been marched out at gun point, their water is restricted, trade by way of import and export so infrastructure is at a standstill, their movements are restricted buy gun point and check points which hugely impacts job security. Entire neighbourhoods of Palestinians have been uprooted and if they don’t leave their portrayed as uprising to make for Israeli settlements.
To take away someone’s home, owned for generations, their ability to trade, their access to work, to water, their ability to rebuild, their freedom of movement what could possibly be the outcome? I ask this question and I mean it seriously, if someone came into your neighbourhood and uprooted your family and you could no longer work, rebuild what would you do you?
The genocide of Jews in WW2 is not a justicfictaion or a free pass to subject another group of people to genocide. What happened was bloody awful, there’s no denying it so we as an international community set up the U.N. so that type of situation would not occur again and Israel is direct violation of U.N. law and human rights violations.
One wrong does not justify another. We should learn not subject others to our own misfortune.
The Palestinians have lived on that land for generations. They have houses and farms. Olive plantations that have been in their families for generations and Israeli soldiers marched in and took it from under them.
What did anyone expect them to do? But uprise?
I would.
God is not a real estate agent!
You cannot kill, take, plunger and steal in the name of God. If your plight is justified but in the meantime you point a gun at a grandmother while you take their property that their great grandfathers owned there’s no justified ownership but violence and greed.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#35

Post by melanie » Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 am

When your talking about the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people, not just Muslims but Christians too as although in the minority there are Palestinian Christians. Their land and homes have been taken, land owned for generations as some long standing legal battles prove but yet they’ve been marched out at gun point, their water is restricted, trade by way of import and export so infrastructure is at a standstill, their movements are restricted by gun point and check points which hugely impacts job security. Entire neighbourhoods of Palestinians have been uprooted and if they don’t leave they’re portrayed as uprising to make way
for Israeli settlements.
To take away someone’s home, owned for generations, their ability to trade, their access to work, to water, their ability to rebuild, their freedom of movement what could possibly be the outcome? I ask this question and I mean it seriously, if someone came into your neighbourhood and uprooted your family and you could no longer work, rebuild what would you do you?
The genocide of Jews in WW2 is not a justicfictaion or a free pass to subject another group of people to genocide. What happened was bloody awful, there’s no denying it so we as an international community set up the U.N. so that type of situation would not occur again and Israel is direct violation of U.N. law and human rights violations.
One wrong does not justify another. We should learn not subject others to our own misfortune.
The Palestinians have lived on that land for generations. They have houses and farms. Olive plantations that have been in their families for generations and Israeli soldiers marched in and took it from under them.
What did anyone expect them to do? But uprise?
I would.
God is not a real estate agent!
You cannot kill, take, plunger and steal in the name of God. If your plight is justified but in the meantime you point a gun at a grandmother while you take their property that their great grandfathers owned there’s no justified ownership but violence and greed.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#36

Post by mrtzur2015 » Fri May 18, 2018 9:58 pm

melanie wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 am
God is not a real estate agent!
You cannot kill, take, plunger and steal in the name of God. If your plight is justified but in the meantime you point a gun at a grandmother while you take their property that their great grandfathers owned there’s no justified ownership but violence and greed.
no one killed take plundger and stollen in the name of God
if you read the bible you would know the promise for the land was given to Jacob not to ishmael.
therefore the land belongs to Israel not to the Palestinians.

the same day that Israel was declared a state (which was prophesied about) all the nations around them started an attack against.
i don't see how Israel can be the aggressor then.
stealing for the sake of saving life and uncovering truth is not a sin (like the documents from iran)
also now it is reveled that people were bribed to accept the iranian deal. anyone (with brains) who actually read the deal and understand it would understand that the deal was a hoax. no one would of ever signed it.
melanie wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 am
The genocide of Jews in WW2 is not a justicfictaion or a free pass to subject another group of people to genocide. What happened was bloody awful, there’s no denying it so we as an international community set up the U.N. so that type of situation would not occur again and Israel is direct violation of U.N. law and human rights violations.
One wrong does not justify another. We should learn not subject others to our own misfortune.
The Palestinians have lived on that land for generations. They have houses and farms. Olive plantations that have been in their families for generations and Israeli soldiers marched in and took it from under them.
What did anyone expect them to do? But uprise?
I would.
the same as blaming God for why [poop] goes down in our life the way it does.
and the answer is... no one made them jump fences and get shot. Israel never killed civilians on propose (actually i remember one incident)
but they shot civilians and sucide to kill all the time.
it is hard to believe that some religions sanctified death and not life.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#37

Post by edwardmurphy » Sat May 19, 2018 7:58 am

mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 9:58 pm
anyone (with brains) who actually read the deal and understand it would understand that the deal was a hoax. no one would of ever signed it.
So you've read the deal and understand it better than the diplomats who negotiated and signed it?
If you're accustomed to privilege equality may feel like oppression.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#38

Post by mrtzur2015 » Sat May 19, 2018 6:44 pm

edwardmurphy wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 7:58 am
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 9:58 pm
anyone (with brains) who actually read the deal and understand it would understand that the deal was a hoax. no one would of ever signed it.
So you've read the deal and understand it better than the diplomats who negotiated and signed it?
All I know that even cps does unannounced visits .
Why should a Nuklear program have announced visit?
Iranians lied about the state of their program and the recently discovered documents admit to it. Not to mention trump would stay in the deal if it was so great like you make it to be.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#39

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun May 20, 2018 11:16 am

I don't recall taking a position on the deal. I honestly don't know all that much about it. That said, after 10 minutes of research I'm confident that I know a lot more about it than you do. You, sir, are the poster child for the Dunning-Kruger School of Diplomacy.

Here's a rebuttal to your complaint about announced/unannounced visits.

The executive summary is that you can't just whip up a batch of weapons-grade uranium in a bucket. The process is complex and requires an advanced facility that's very difficult to hide. Beyond that, it's virtually impossible to hide the resulting nuclear material. Inspectors have technology that allows them to detect as little as a billionth of a gram of nuclear material, and that material will remain present and detectable for a while. Uranium 235 has a half-life of about 700 million years. Plutonium 239 decays a lot more rapidly, but it still has a half-life of over 24,000 years. Twenty-four days more or less won't make much of a difference.
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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#40

Post by Philip » Sun May 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Ed, that article did absolutely nothing to refute Iran using other unknown sites!

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#41

Post by edwardmurphy » Sun May 20, 2018 5:25 pm

Philip wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:00 pm
Ed, that article did absolutely nothing to refute Iran using other unknown sites!
What is there to refute?

The rule was that if we suspected that Iran was producing nuclear material in an undisclosed site we could could ask to inspect that site. At that point Iran and the atomic energy commission would have 2 weeks to figure out the details. If Iran dragged their feet then Joint Commission – the United States, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia and Iran - would have a week to vote on how to proceed. After that Iran would get 3 days to implement whatever plan they were given.

The argument that that system wouldn't work is a red herring, simply because it was never tested. By all accounts Iran was following the terms of the agreement and nobody, including the Trump Administration, came forward with a list of suspicious sites.

I don't know enough about the deal to have a strong opinion about it, and frankly I doubt that many of its fiercest bar stool critics do either. What I do know, though, is that we made an agreement then we broke it, despite all evidence indicating that the other party was doing everything we'd asked them to do. That's a typical Trump move, but I don't think it's good foreign policy.
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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#42

Post by Kurieuo » Sun May 20, 2018 6:06 pm

It seems to me like Israel (Netanyahu) and the US (Trump administration) collaborated in this instance. Like a you rub my back, I'll rub yours. Clearly, Israel, US and Saudis would love nothing more than Iran to be gone... but then, when I saw Netanyahu talking up Israel's find, the jig just seemed to me way too obvious to be taken seriously.

For Netanyahu's part, a near-abandoned warehouse just waiting for tonnes of paper files (rather than say USB, digital copies or the like) to be stolen. It's kind of laughable in today's day and age. Which then gives some "wind" for Trump folding on the deal... it's just too nice a neat. The fact the Europe isn't towing the line of the US, and that China, Russia and all others who signed the agreement see it as a good thing that has been working, says to me that perhaps it was a good thing. And, I wasn't for participation in it when Obama signed on, and saw it as laughable -- but then maybe I was wrong in my skepticism.

Then as Ed alludes to, IAEA have been carrying out surveillance and such would be difficult to hide. Not to mention, the risk of being discovered as deceitful by ALL who in good faith signed the agreement, Iran would have no allies. They really need Russia onside at least (like Syria did), but if they lied to Russia, China, not just Europe, US and rest- the risk of their own state going the way of Libya increases dramatically so. The end result even of all such wars, is possibly to be rid of Iran as the finale. So then, the security risk of Iran developing nuclear weapons deceitfully vs. just letting it go at least for the next decade or however long is required -- just don't seem worth it.
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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#43

Post by melanie » Tue May 22, 2018 7:12 am

Iran oils reserves are the 4th largest in the world. Closely followed by Iraq and Libya.
Add up the dots.....
America’s interest in the Middle East has always been and remains the oil.
They have weapons of mass destruction (Iraq), we came, we saw, he died (Libya), and now the masses are being fed the BS for the next oil war (Iran).
If it’s any interest to people at the very least 500,000 civilians died in Iraq, 30,000 in Libya...how many more innocent people need to die for geopolitics and a monopoly and greed for oil?
People need to wake up!! Propaganda is easily discerned even with one eye half open!

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#44

Post by Stu » Tue May 22, 2018 7:36 am

I wonder where the world is headed?

Remember this is the plan; doesn't mean plans won't be altered, but he does provide insight into the endgame.


Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: Iran vs. Israel

#45

Post by RickD » Tue May 22, 2018 7:45 am

Melanie wrote:
People need to wake up!! Propaganda is easily discerned even with one eye half open!
Mel,

I completely agree!

If a blond, middle-aged, Aussie woman, with leftist, anti-Israel beliefs can discern propaganda, anyone can!

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