Evidence for God from Science

I appreciate Edwards selective interpretation of the data.
Christians accept homosexuals, yes but not homosexuality ( if you don't understand the difference then you shouldn't be discussing this at all).
Even gay people know these are issues in the LGBT community with greater degrees of abuse, sexual diseases, suicides and mental health issues.
Just ask them ED, some of us have actually worked in this communities help centers and seen this issues up close.

Kurieuo wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI2ew31oXTg

I personally feel that Shapiro is the most loving towards trans in being brutally honest, and sincerely wanting them to get help, to the point the trans beside him wants to beat the absolute $*** out of him.

Violence in the LGBT community is a very real issue.

Stu, you're entitled to your opinion on who is or isn't Christian, but you'd be wrong to think it matters much.

Paul, I didn't selectively interpret the data, I read the paragraph where you got your information and reported it accurately. You took the high rate of victimization among lesbians and used to to argue that the LGBT lifestyle was unhealthy, but in order to do so you had to ignore the fact that, according to your source, it's lowest among gay men.

edwardmurphy wrote:Stu, you're entitled to your opinion on who is or isn't Christian, but you'd be wrong to think it matters much.

The Bible tells me who is and who isn't, anyone who disagrees with the Bible is not Christian, it's simple really.

So to translate, it's not me, and it's not my opinion, it's God and the Bible who says who is Christian and who is not.

edwardmurphy wrote:Stu, you're entitled to your opinion on who is or isn't Christian, but you'd be wrong to think it matters much.

Paul, I didn't selectively interpret the data, I read the paragraph where you got your information and reported it accurately. You took the high rate of victimization among lesbians and used to to argue that the LGBT lifestyle was unhealthy, but in order to do so you had to ignore the fact that, according to your source, it's lowest among gay men.

You interpreted as, somehow, being ok, being acceptable.
Almost 50% of lesbian women have been sexually assaulted and, overwhelmingly, by other women.
You don't see an issue there ?

Not sure what you mean about gay men, the link I posted stated no numbers:

Rape of males by males[edit]
Rape by males against males has been heavily stigmatized. According to psychologist Dr. Sarah Crome, fewer than 1 in 10 male-male rapes are reported. As a group, male rape victims reported a lack of services and support, and legal systems are often ill-equipped to deal with this type of crime.[39]

Several studies argue that male-male prisoner rape, as well as female-female prisoner rape, are common types of rape which go unreported even more frequently than rape in the general population.[note 1][note 2][note 3] The rape of men by men has been documented as a weapon of terror in warfare (see Wartime sexual violence).[37] Studies have documented incidents of male sexual violence as a weapon of wartime or political aggression in Uganda, Chile, Greece, Croatia, Iran, Kuwait, the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. Seventy-six percent of male political prisoners in El Salvador surveyed in the 1980s described at least one incidence of sexual torture, and a study of 6,000 concentration-camp inmates in Sarajevo found that 80% of men reported having been raped.[37] In the case of the Syrian Civil War (2011–present), the male detainees experienced sexual abuse like being forced to sit on a broken glass bottle, getting their genitals tied to a heavy bag of water, or being forced to watch the rape of another detainee by the officials.[40]

Stu wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:While there have been reports of people, not giving in to peer pressure apparently, that have been changed by Jesus from homosexuality, most don't accept Jesus and so, the gov't has little to no choice but to legalize LGBT.

Plenty of homosexuals are Christian and plenty of Christians, including clergy, accept homosexuality as normal and valid. You won't hear that here, where people are overwhelmingly socially conservative, but it's a fact.

Well then they're not Christians.
They have made up an alternative religion (otherwise known as a sect) where homosexuality is accepted as normal.

Like it or not God does not accept homosexuality. You don't agree with that, that's fine, but don't say you are a Christian.

Ed,

What Stu just said is known as being a judaizer. His statement is following OT law.
Being a Christian has one condition, and only one condition: Trusting in Christ for salvation. Whether someone accepts homosexuality as a sin or not, doesn't make one a Christian.

If you haven't noticed, Stu takes a very literal and concrete interpretation of scripture. The danger with that, is it's a very "graceless" interpretation. People that hold to that kind of concrete literalness, tend to have no room for differing beliefs.

And to be clear, thankfully, he doesn't speak for the rest of us.

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:While there have been reports of people, not giving in to peer pressure apparently, that have been changed by Jesus from homosexuality, most don't accept Jesus and so, the gov't has little to no choice but to legalize LGBT.

Plenty of homosexuals are Christian and plenty of Christians, including clergy, accept homosexuality as normal and valid. You won't hear that here, where people are overwhelmingly socially conservative, but it's a fact.

Well then they're not Christians.
They have made up an alternative religion (otherwise known as a sect) where homosexuality is accepted as normal.

Like it or not God does not accept homosexuality. You don't agree with that, that's fine, but don't say you are a Christian.

Ed,

What Stu just said is known as being a judaizer. His statement is following OT law.
Being a Christian has one condition, and only one condition: Trusting in Christ for salvation. Whether someone accepts homosexuality as a sin or not, doesn't make one a Christian.

If you haven't noticed, Stu takes a very literal and concrete interpretation of scripture. The danger with that, is it's a very "graceless" interpretation. People that hold to that kind of concrete literalness, tend to have no room for differing beliefs.

And to be clear, thankfully, he doesn't speak for the rest of us.

So you accept gay pastors?

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

The question is, what is homosexuality? If we say that it is a CHOICE of a chosen and sinful sexual lifestyle, one being embraced in a on-going way by a person - well, that EMBRACING / declaring would be in obvious, blatant and ongoing rebellion to God, as the person fails to recognize God's warnings about this, His hatred of it - likely such a person not saved / not wishing to accept God as their Lord. I believe Scripture shows that there are certain ongoing and deliberate sins that are markers of one's spiritual / salvational state. And yet, God hates ALL sin. And ALL Christians sin. So, is a Christian who messes us and sleeps with a woman not his wife suddenly not a Christian because of that sin? Of course not. He can be forgiven - if a Christian, he IS forgiven. If a Christian, the person WILL be seeking forgiveness and struggling against a sin they recognize. And a Christian would recognize that He has sinned against God and His directives. But a heterosexual claiming to be a Christian while embracing a whoring lifestyle with many women - yep, that's likely an ongoing marker of a person in rebellion / not in submission to God / likely not a Christian.

So, is a person who has a natural attraction to the same sex - is that God-created OR is it a (yes, natural) sin-nature craving? So, such a person can be in recognition that they are sinning, while struggling not to, constantly asking for forgiveness, and of course, might well be a Christian. Such a person will, at times, fail and fall into sexual sin. But, again, does God not view all sin as wrong? Is it not sinners He saves while we are still in our sins? Does Scripture indicate that after salvation we will quit sinning - even though we are forgiven? No, it does not! But, again, certain ongoing lifestyle sins, deliberately pursued, unrepentantly, while fully knowing God's directives against it - that's a likely spiritual marker of one having not ever received Christ.

RickD wrote:Ed,

What Stu just said is known as being a judaizer. His statement is following OT law.
Being a Christian has one condition, and only one condition: Trusting in Christ for salvation. Whether someone accepts homosexuality as a sin or not, doesn't make one a Christian.

If you haven't noticed, Stu takes a very literal and concrete interpretation of scripture. The danger with that, is it's a very "graceless" interpretation. People that hold to that kind of concrete literalness, tend to have no room for differing beliefs.

And to be clear, thankfully, he doesn't speak for the rest of us.

Thanks for the information. I'd never heard the term "judaizer." I hadn't really noticed Stu's interpretation of scripture, either. It's been a long time since I've looked at anything south of the politics sub forum. I can't say I'm surprised, though. His politics are pretty graceless, too.

I'm glad to hear that Stu doesn't speak for everyone. I already knew that, but it's still nice to see it in print. I know that conservative Christians are a diverse group who have diverse experiences and diverse views that can't be summed up in a two word description. One of my long term (probably futile) goals here is convince a few hardheaded knuckle draggers that the same can be said of liberals.

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

Come on man, answer the question - are actively gay pastors acceptable?

Well I can quote you many other sites that disagree with your source: https://www.gotquestions.org/not-inheri ... m-God.html

Also, one can lose salvation. If I was once a Christian and instead decided to become a satanist and serve satan, somehow I don't think that you will be going to heaven. Same thing with someone who was once a Christian but then converts to Islam, they will no longer go to heaven.

Stu wrote:

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

Come on man, answer the question - are actively gay pastors acceptable?

Well I can quote you many other sites that disagree with your source: https://www.gotquestions.org/not-inheri ... m-God.html

Also, one can lose salvation. If I was once a Christian and instead decided to become a satanist and serve satan, somehow I don't think that you will be going to heaven. Same thing with someone who was once a Christian but then converts to Islam, they will no longer go to heaven.

Wow Stu, your theology is more of a mess than I thought.

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

Come on man, answer the question - are actively gay pastors acceptable?

Well I can quote you many other sites that disagree with your source: https://www.gotquestions.org/not-inheri ... m-God.html

Also, one can lose salvation. If I was once a Christian and instead decided to become a satanist and serve satan, somehow I don't think that you will be going to heaven. Same thing with someone who was once a Christian but then converts to Islam, they will no longer go to heaven.

Wow Stu, your theology is more of a mess than I thought.

Your non-answer, is all the answer I need.

You're too scared to answer the difficult questions because they require a politically incorrect response (afraid you'll offend Ed ). But we all know what the answer is....

Stu wrote:

RickD wrote:

Stu wrote:
So you accept gay pastors?

That's irrelevant to the point you made.

Paul said that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom - was he wrong?

Nope. But if you interpret, "will not inherit the kingdom..." as saying, "will not go to heaven", you're wrong.
http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2 ... cor-69-10/
Christians cannot lose salvation because of sinning. If we could, then there'd be nobody in heaven.

Come on man, answer the question - are actively gay pastors acceptable?

Stu, sorry to butt in, however do you think a pastor who habitually lies, is acceptable? Or one that envies, or who is doing a business by running a church? What if a pastor watches porn, is he acceptable?

At the end of the day it is your perspective that is distorted because you keep acts as very important to salvation. If a person who lies or is an envious one or steals or watches porn is a pastor, then he has deeper issues that he needs to deal with - which is between God and him. And then between him and his church.

However, to say that one such person is not a christian, or can't be one is wrong. I know what you'd say, that if such and such a person is unrepentant than he is not a christian and I will still say, this is wrong.

We often commit sins we don't even know about or are aware of if God judged us by our acts, which you are saying he should then every one of us will fall into one of another category of sin, me and you included. But when God looks at us through the grace that we have in Christ then it doesn't matter what sin you have done. You will need spiritual correctness, you should be punished legally if that is what entails from your act, but God can and does forgive you, not because of the degree of screw up you did but on the grace and love of God for us. And if that sounds like something which isn't justice and where one doesn't deserve forgiveness for the sin or crime they have committed, then that is exactly what grace is. You don't deserve it, ever, no one does. It is not justice and isn't suppose to be. The punishment can't match the crime, because the wages of all sin is death, period. There isn't a big one or a small one.

I am saying you need to stop thinking of God as an accountant and more like a father.

LATER EDIT:
And to answer your question: No person should be a pastor if he isn't called to be one.