Ten Commandment Monument removed

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Kurieuo
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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#46

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:59 pm

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:
tunde1992 wrote:None of the old covenant laws are valid anymore, that's the point of a new covenant
http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/old- ... enant.html

The law is no longer written in tablets, but in our hearts , something like that
Bingo! We have a winner!!! Correctamundo!
:twodancing: :toppoints: :rockcool:
I'd fine tune that to be, they're valid... but when you enter into the new covenant as said would be of the heart in the OT, then we are simply free to just love God and each other in Christ (and these two things are the foundation of the 10 Commandments).

And adhering to the Sabbath in the 10 Commandments was about respecting God as rightful Lord of creation (this link to creation is found in the 10 Commandments passage). So ought we not do that?
Sure,
The sabbath command is about respecting God as THE ONE AND ONLY GOD. Israel was surrounded by polytheistic religions. And God wanted them to be separate. That's why He gave THEM the 10 commandments.

But as believers, we don't need to obey a specific sabbath law given to Israel, in order to know God is Lord. IT'S WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS BY THE HOLY SPIRIT!

"So we ought not do that?"

For a moment, I thought Gman was posting again. Because that's the same argument he used to use. He'd say, "why wouldn't you want to take a day off of work".

Like that was all the sabbath law was about.
We can still worship God in spirit and in truth.
That's what I ultimately see in Christ saying all the Law is fulfill in love God and each other.
And with the Sabbath, my previous words point out what the Sabbath was actually foundationally about
-- time out for Israel to rest and reflect / acknowledge and respect their God as rightful Lord of all creation.
Shouldn't every Christian who accepts Jesus as Lord do that really? It's just a natural part of being Christian -- I don't see how one can accept Christ and place their faith in Him if they don't accept Him as their Lord.

Re: Law, not one tittle of the Law has been removed. (Matt 5:18)
BUT, in Christ we're not bound by those very physical action-based Laws that require sacrifice when broken, sacrifice for thanksgiving, and what-not. Right? The perfect final sacrifice was in Christ who being perfect gave Himself up for all. So now we all in Christ, have one who eternally intercedes for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

Those old Laws only condemn and lead us to death from God, but in Christ they have been fulfilled and nailed to the cross. Because Christ fulfills the Law, His death ought not happened. And then Christ's being innocent, yet died a sinners death was in a sense owed. In being owed, He said: "Father forgive them." And in the resurrection we see that request honored. Some may take all that as quite profound, but it's really Christianity 101.

So in Christ, we can all be reconciled to God. So long as Christ accepts us, and does intercede on behalf of us, then we have another way of being accepted, the Way -- Christ.

There are then two choices if one wishes to pursue a lasting relationship with God.
1) One can try to keep the Law 100%, or 2) One can place their faith in Christ.

However, just because one places their faith in Christ, doesn't mean many laws shouldn't be kept. Many are plainly obviously good, some others obviously not (that is, under a system of grace and forgiveness), some cultural, some that cross cultural boundaries. God has written them into our hearts, and so now we can acknowledge and worship God freely in our spirit openly and honestly. True love can be had that is unrestrained in that we can come to God as we are and be who we are in the spirit of grace and forgiveness that exists within Christ, rather than needing to know a list of dos and don't in order to be accepted on our own accord.

Nessa is very much right to see merit to the Law in the OT. And I'm by no means Gman, or Gman-ish in saying what I have, nor is Nessa. Sometimes fuller elaboration is just needed in order to stop everyone's hair standing up on end and things degenerating into the works-based salvation issue.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#47

Post by Kurieuo » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:12 pm

RickD wrote:
ACB wrote:

You can try to down play it all you want to but it is proof this is a Christian nation. The fact it was removed does not change it.
I disagree. It's not a Christian nation. And I hope it never is. I hope it stays the way it was founded. As a nation free from an established religion. A nation where we are free to practice Christianity, or any other religion.

I don't want a theocracy. Part of what makes America great, is that we are free to practice the religion/belief of our choosing. Including atheism.

It's a free country. Not a Christian country.
And its secular brainwashing that leads one to believe an authentically run Christian state would not be based upon grace. Perhaps we have different ideas on what "Christianity" is, but there would be far more liberty under a legitimate Christian theocracy, then secular, Islamic, or any other. Christ gives us the choice, and so people's choices should be respected as much as possible where they do not harm society.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#48

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:15 am

Kurieuo wrote:
We can still worship God in spirit and truth.
That's what I ultimately see in Christ saying all the Law is fulfill in love God and each other.
And with the Sabbath, my previous words point out what the Sabbath was actually foundationally about
-- time out for Israel to rest and reflect / acknowledge and respect their God as rightful Lord of all creation.
Shouldn't every Christian who accepts Jesus as Lord do that really? It's just a natural part of being Christian -- I don't see how one can accept Christ and place their faith in Him if they don't accept Him as their Lord.
Simply, no. Every Christian SHOULD not take time out to rest and reflect on God.

It's a matter of conscience. Some believe one day is more important than others. Some believe all days are the same. Who are you to judge your brother who dedicates every day to the Lord?

Equating an observance of the sabbath, with accepting Christ as Lord, is simply troubling. Do you really believe that Christians who don't rest on the sabbath, don't hold Christ as Lord?
Kurieuo wrote:
Nessa is very much right to see merit to the Law in the OT. And I'm by no means Gman, or Gman-ish in saying what I have, nor is Nessa. Sometimes fuller elaboration is just needed in order to stop everyone's hair standing up on end and things degenerating into the works-based salvation issue.
Of course there's merit to the law. The main thing we need to know, is it pointed forward to our need for Christ.

What I'm saying, is that there's no merit in observing the law.

And FYI, I don't see anyone accusing Nessa of a works based salvation.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#49

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:57 am

The 10 commandments are still valid tho we are not under them...

Nice revolving door we have here :P

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#50

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:59 am

Are you sure you werent the one who moved the monument rick :poke: y>:D<

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#51

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:16 am

Nessa wrote:The 10 commandments are still valid tho we are not under them...

Nice revolving door we have here :P
Nessa,

Could you explain what that means? How are they valid?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#52

Post by Kurieuo » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:17 am

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
We can still worship God in spirit and truth.
That's what I ultimately see in Christ saying all the Law is fulfill in love God and each other.
And with the Sabbath, my previous words point out what the Sabbath was actually foundationally about
-- time out for Israel to rest and reflect / acknowledge and respect their God as rightful Lord of all creation.
Shouldn't every Christian who accepts Jesus as Lord do that really? It's just a natural part of being Christian -- I don't see how one can accept Christ and place their faith in Him if they don't accept Him as their Lord.
Simply, no. Every Christian SHOULD not take time out to rest and reflect on God.

It's a matter of conscience. Some believe one day is more important than others. Some believe all days are the same. Who are you to judge your brother who dedicates every day to the Lord?

Equating an observance of the sabbath, with accepting Christ as Lord, is simply troubling. Do you really believe that Christians who don't rest on the sabbath, don't hold Christ as Lord?
You're confusing the "literal" (keeping the Sabbath day),
for the "spirit" of something the Sabbath represented (tribute to God as sovereign over all creation).
RickD wrote:What I'm saying, is that there's no merit in observing the law.
Of course there is merit... e.g., there's no merit to not killing another?
And, I think, there is merit to those who do dedicated a day a week to God.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#53

Post by tunde1992 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:25 am

Of course there is merit to not killing one another, but we don't need stone tablets to tell us that, again back to my point, the law is written in our hearts, hence the two greatest commandments.
But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
-matthew 6:33

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#54

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:57 am

RickD wrote:
Nessa wrote:The 10 commandments are still valid tho we are not under them...

Nice revolving door we have here :P
Nessa,

Could you explain what that means? How are they valid?
I have explained it then kurieuo did...
download.png
download.png (6.16 KiB) Viewed 841 times

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#55

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:58 am

Might need to get an interpreter to help us :P

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#56

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:03 am

Nessa wrote:
RickD wrote:
Nessa wrote:The 10 commandments are still valid tho we are not under them...

Nice revolving door we have here :P
Nessa,

Could you explain what that means? How are they valid?
I have explained it then kurieuo did...
download.png
Nessa ,

It seems like a contradiction. They are still valid, but we are not under them. Valid for whom then?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#57

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:07 am

RickD wrote:
Nessa wrote:
RickD wrote:
Nessa wrote:The 10 commandments are still valid tho we are not under them...

Nice revolving door we have here :P
Nessa,

Could you explain what that means? How are they valid?
I have explained it then kurieuo did...
download.png
Nessa ,

It seems like a contradiction. They are still valid, but we are not under them. Valid for whom then?
To christians.and Israel

Maybe a paradox. Jesus said he has not come to do away with the law yet me are no longer under it

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#58

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:08 am

Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
We can still worship God in spirit and truth.
That's what I ultimately see in Christ saying all the Law is fulfill in love God and each other.
And with the Sabbath, my previous words point out what the Sabbath was actually foundationally about
-- time out for Israel to rest and reflect / acknowledge and respect their God as rightful Lord of all creation.
Shouldn't every Christian who accepts Jesus as Lord do that really? It's just a natural part of being Christian -- I don't see how one can accept Christ and place their faith in Him if they don't accept Him as their Lord.
Simply, no. Every Christian SHOULD not take time out to rest and reflect on God.

It's a matter of conscience. Some believe one day is more important than others. Some believe all days are the same. Who are you to judge your brother who dedicates every day to the Lord?

Equating an observance of the sabbath, with accepting Christ as Lord, is simply troubling. Do you really believe that Christians who don't rest on the sabbath, don't hold Christ as Lord?
You're confusing the "literal" (keeping the Sabbath day),
for the "spirit" of something the Sabbath represented (tribute to God as sovereign over all creation).
RickD wrote:What I'm saying, is that there's no merit in observing the law.
Of course there is merit... e.g., there's no merit to not killing another?
And, I think, there is merit to those who do dedicated a day a week to God.
K,
What you are writing, makes it seem like you don't understand the difference between the old covenant and the new.

If I don't murder someone, or as Nessa alluded to, if I don't hate someone in my heart, it's because I'm living by the spirit(new covenant). If I don't kill someone, it's NOT because I'm observing the law(old covenant).

Old covenant=obey the OT law.
New covenant=live by the spirit.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#59

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:09 am

Paradoxes can seem like contradictions

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Re: Ten Commandment Monument removed

#60

Post by Nessa » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:12 am

Just because the way we observe something changes doesnt mean we dont still observe it

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