Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusades

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#16

Post by HappyFlappyTheist » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:31 pm

The Sunan Abu Dawud is one of 6 major hadiths; also, the quote above is recorded directly from Aisha.
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#17

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:46 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Consummated in the cultural context does necessarily mean sex, I actually went to a Muslim forum and asked this exact question and like all the misinformation about the Bible, you are misinformed about the Koran.
I've read the Koran over and over and you are woefully mistaken. The Koran prescribes violence against infidels, violence of the worse kind. Allah also allows his followers to use deception - to lie! - to infidels to acheive whatever goal is coveted. Going to a Muslim site to ask a question! that's like a sheep asking the wolf "Can I trust you?"

Contrast this with the Bible: the Bible describes punishment ordered by God and limits its extent. And, God expressly forbids lying.

You are also wrong about Aisha, Mohammed's first child bride. The "prophet" of Islam was a pedophile, even by ancient Israel's standards.

Mohammed was a madman holed up in a cave when he got his "revelation" which became the Koran. Islam is a religion that grew by murder and mayhem...much like what is happenning today.

I've said this before: Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Why have you become an apologist for Islam?!

FL
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#18

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:51 pm

RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:I think her age is quite in dispute, well at least according to Muslims. Don't forget a lot of old Muslim texts were burn't, we have very little information about the actual facts, the Koran in it's current form could possibly be very wrong indeed.
HappyFlappyDeist wrote:
The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)




Sounds pretty clear cut to me.

Dan wrote:
What is it in it's original language.

Is that from the Koran>?
See for yourself:
http://sunnah.com/abudawud/12/76
Oops, it looks like you deleted this response I quoted. Nevertheless, there's the link.
Yep already did, deleted because I remembered that the age is in dispute.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#19

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:58 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Consummated in the cultural context does necessarily mean sex, I actually went to a Muslim forum and asked this exact question and like all the misinformation about the Bible, you are misinformed about the Koran.
I've read the Koran over and over and you are woefully mistaken. The Koran prescribes violence against infidels, violence of the worse kind. Allah also allows his followers to use deception - to lie! - to infidels to acheive whatever goal is coveted. Going to a Muslim site to ask a question! that's like a sheep asking the wolf "Can I trust you?"

Contrast this with the Bible: the Bible describes punishment ordered by God and limits its extent. And, God expressly forbids lying.

You are also wrong about Aisha, Mohammed's first child bride. The "prophet" of Islam was a pedophile, even by ancient Israel's standards.

Mohammed was a madman holed up in a cave when he got his "revelation" which became the Koran. Islam is a religion that grew by murder and mayhem...much like what is happenning today.

I've said this before: Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Why have you become an apologist for Islam?!

FL
I think your wrong, I have also read the Koran (can't remember a lot like I do with the Bible, obviously) and literature by Muslim apologists.

I am not saying there are not problematic passages within it, just saying we may not have all the facts and that all this bull about it being a religion of violence is just crapola.

You are talking out of your proverbial, maybe instead of putting people down all the time, how about you try to come to an understanding with people. This is the exact reason why there is so much violence in the world, because of these exact attitudes.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#20

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:59 pm

Daniel,

Why are you defending this evil religion?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#21

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:00 pm

RickD wrote:Daniel,

Why are you defending this evil religion?
Because I don't agree with your narrow assessment of it.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#22

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:01 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Consummated in the cultural context does necessarily mean sex, I actually went to a Muslim forum and asked this exact question and like all the misinformation about the Bible, you are misinformed about the Koran.
I've read the Koran over and over and you are woefully mistaken. The Koran prescribes violence against infidels, violence of the worse kind. Allah also allows his followers to use deception - to lie! - to infidels to acheive whatever goal is coveted. Going to a Muslim site to ask a question! that's like a sheep asking the wolf "Can I trust you?"

Contrast this with the Bible: the Bible describes punishment ordered by God and limits its extent. And, God expressly forbids lying.

You are also wrong about Aisha, Mohammed's first child bride. The "prophet" of Islam was a pedophile, even by ancient Israel's standards.

Mohammed was a madman holed up in a cave when he got his "revelation" which became the Koran. Islam is a religion that grew by murder and mayhem...much like what is happenning today.

I've said this before: Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Why have you become an apologist for Islam?!

FL
I think your wrong, I have also read the Koran (can't remember a lot like I do with the Bible, obviously) and literature by Muslim apologists.

I am not saying there are not problematic passages within it, just saying we may not have all the facts and that all this bull about it being a religion of violence is just crapola.

You are talking out of your proverbial, maybe instead of putting people down all the time, how about you try to come to an understanding with people. This is the exact reason why there is so much violence in the world, because of these exact attitudes.
Daniel,
Islam was spread by the sword, and still is! Its founder was a violent man and a pedophile! And you're defending it?

And then you're blaming FL for pointing out the truth?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#23

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:04 pm

RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Consummated in the cultural context does necessarily mean sex, I actually went to a Muslim forum and asked this exact question and like all the misinformation about the Bible, you are misinformed about the Koran.
I've read the Koran over and over and you are woefully mistaken. The Koran prescribes violence against infidels, violence of the worse kind. Allah also allows his followers to use deception - to lie! - to infidels to acheive whatever goal is coveted. Going to a Muslim site to ask a question! that's like a sheep asking the wolf "Can I trust you?"

Contrast this with the Bible: the Bible describes punishment ordered by God and limits its extent. And, God expressly forbids lying.

You are also wrong about Aisha, Mohammed's first child bride. The "prophet" of Islam was a pedophile, even by ancient Israel's standards.

Mohammed was a madman holed up in a cave when he got his "revelation" which became the Koran. Islam is a religion that grew by murder and mayhem...much like what is happenning today.

I've said this before: Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Why have you become an apologist for Islam?!

FL
I think your wrong, I have also read the Koran (can't remember a lot like I do with the Bible, obviously) and literature by Muslim apologists.

I am not saying there are not problematic passages within it, just saying we may not have all the facts and that all this bull about it being a religion of violence is just crapola.

You are talking out of your proverbial, maybe instead of putting people down all the time, how about you try to come to an understanding with people. This is the exact reason why there is so much violence in the world, because of these exact attitudes.
Daniel,
Islam was spread by the sword, and still is! Its founder was a violent man and a pedophile! And you're defending it?

And then you're blaming FL for pointing out the truth?

Why do you think people kill people Rick, they kill because of hatred, they kill because they do not try to understand and accept others, what you guys are promoting is only the start of it, but it will eventually grow from there as it always does.


In the context of the period and events, Muhammed was not violent and whether Aisha was 9 is in dispute, so he probably was not a paedophile, and you are reading it with modern glasses.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#24

Post by HappyFlappyTheist » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:07 pm

What an entertaining debate. :popcornduo:
pulvis sum

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#25

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:16 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:Consummated in the cultural context does necessarily mean sex, I actually went to a Muslim forum and asked this exact question and like all the misinformation about the Bible, you are misinformed about the Koran.
I've read the Koran over and over and you are woefully mistaken. The Koran prescribes violence against infidels, violence of the worse kind. Allah also allows his followers to use deception - to lie! - to infidels to acheive whatever goal is coveted. Going to a Muslim site to ask a question! that's like a sheep asking the wolf "Can I trust you?"

Contrast this with the Bible: the Bible describes punishment ordered by God and limits its extent. And, God expressly forbids lying.

You are also wrong about Aisha, Mohammed's first child bride. The "prophet" of Islam was a pedophile, even by ancient Israel's standards.

Mohammed was a madman holed up in a cave when he got his "revelation" which became the Koran. Islam is a religion that grew by murder and mayhem...much like what is happenning today.

I've said this before: Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Why have you become an apologist for Islam?!

FL
I think your wrong, I have also read the Koran (can't remember a lot like I do with the Bible, obviously) and literature by Muslim apologists.

I am not saying there are not problematic passages within it, just saying we may not have all the facts and that all this bull about it being a religion of violence is just crapola.

You are talking out of your proverbial, maybe instead of putting people down all the time, how about you try to come to an understanding with people. This is the exact reason why there is so much violence in the world, because of these exact attitudes.
Daniel,
Islam was spread by the sword, and still is! Its founder was a violent man and a pedophile! And you're defending it?

And then you're blaming FL for pointing out the truth?

Why do you think people kill people Rick, they kill because of hatred, they kill because they do not try to understand and accept others, what you guys are promoting is only the start of it, but it will eventually grow from there as it always does.


In the context of the period and events, Muhammed was not violent and whether Aisha was 9 is in dispute, so he probably was not a paedophile, and you are reading it with modern glasses.
Daniel,
You are so naive if you believe that. Islam was founded on a demonic vision that Muhammad received. It has always been spread by violence. And those that are speaking the truth about that are the ones who are promoting hatred?

Daniel, are you serving God, or defending Allah?

You can't serve two masters, my friend. You need to choose whose side you're on.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#26

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:17 pm

HappyFlappyDeist wrote:What an entertaining debate. :popcornduo:
Actually, it's quite shocking that a Christian is defending Islam.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#27

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:52 pm

RickD wrote: You are so naive if you believe that. Islam was founded on a demonic vision that Muhammad received. It has always been spread by violence. And those that are speaking the truth about that are the ones who are promoting hatred?

Daniel, are you serving God, or defending Allah?

You can't serve two masters, my friend. You need to choose whose side you're on.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, I never said Islam is good, it is extremely legalistic and I don't agree with it at all. I am just saying the stupid accusations that people bring against it are just that, stupid, and all they do is breed hatred.

How can you serve hatred and Christ Rick, you're the one serving two masters.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

Danieltwotwenty
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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#28

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:53 pm

RickD wrote:
HappyFlappyDeist wrote:What an entertaining debate. :popcornduo:
Actually, it's quite shocking that a Christian is defending Islam.
I can believe a Christian would spread hatred, It makes me wonder sometimes.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#29

Post by Philip » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:53 pm

Rick: Actually, it's quite shocking that a Christian is defending Islam.
Both shocking and sad! If one believes what the Qur'an says, then Jesus was not resurrected, He was not God, the Jews should be their mortal enemies - THIS is what defending Islam ultimately means. It's one thing to want to treat Muslims well, to desire them to come to Christ. But to defend their theology? To defend Muhammad? This, the religion primarily spread by the sword? :shakehead:

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Re: Is this President really this ignorant? ISIS=The Crusad

#30

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:54 pm

Philip wrote:
Rick: Actually, it's quite shocking that a Christian is defending Islam.
Both shocking and sad! If one believes what the Qur'an says, then Jesus was not resurrected, He was not God, the Jews should be their mortal enemies - THIS is what defending Islam ultimately means. It's one thing to want to treat Muslims well, to desire them to come to Christ. But to defend their theology? To defend Muhammad? This, the religion primarily spread by the sword? :shakehead:
:pound: 8-}2

Who said I was defending Islam, I think it is wrong on many levels, however I don't think making accusation which may or may not be true is productive.

I am all about having an understanding and meeting people where they are at and showing them Christ, this does not include insulting them and bashing them.

It makes me sick to my stomach, all these false allegations you guys have bought against me, I am just glad I do not live in the USA, by far I have never experienced this kind of psychotic behaviour where I live.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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