Socialism

Discussions about politics and goings on around the world. (Please keep discussions civil!)
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Seraph
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Re: Socialism

#16

Post by Seraph » Wed May 09, 2012 9:30 am

Democracy and Socialism are compatible. Under a Socialist system, people can still easily have representation in government.

Communism is a different story. :P
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Re: Socialism

#17

Post by Ivellious » Wed May 09, 2012 12:28 pm

Like Seraph said, democracy itself isn't the issue you have, it is a total-capitalist economy. Socialism is more of an economic position, whereas democracy is a government system.

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Re: Socialism

#18

Post by Tpatt17 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:49 pm

Look what happens to socialist countries; Is it fair that a fast food worker would make the same as a doctor? As for what Jesus said, I don't think he had political motives behind what he said, remeber he said 'Give unto Ceasars the things that are Ceasars and to God what is God's' The soviet Union collapsed and it was socialist, we are a free market country and that's what helps our economy. People who have a higher more important Job (Doctors, Densists etc.) should be paid higher. Obama has begun a class warfare, to tax the rich more than the rest, when 50% of America doesn't pay taxes. If people are in those positions for a reason they worked for it. Socialism is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Too many people don't get the whole truth, from the left wing cable news, or papers. American's iare poorly uninformed about current issues, do the research yourself, really look into socialist ideas, really study it: compare it to our wonderful free country.

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Re: Socialism

#19

Post by Ivellious » Thu May 10, 2012 7:17 pm

Socialism does not dictate wages as you say. Communism does, and that clearly is a failed effort, but implementing socialist ideals (such as ensuring health care for all) does not mean that everyone gets the same wages. It just gives all people access to certain systems. I agree, Communist Russia failed because of communism. That doesn't mean it failed because of universal health care.

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Re: Socialism

#20

Post by Reactionary » Fri May 11, 2012 9:43 am

Tpatt17 wrote:Is it fair that a fast food worker would make the same as a doctor?
Tpatt17 wrote:People who have a higher more important Job (Doctors, Densists etc.) should be paid higher.
Where did you get that idea? Intellectually more demanding jobs are paid higher, everywhere. That has nothing to do with socialism.
By the way, all jobs are important for a society to function.
Tpatt17 wrote:The soviet Union collapsed and it was socialist, we are a free market country and that's what helps our economy.
The Soviet Union was a communist country. Big difference.
Tpatt17 wrote:Socialism is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Too many people don't get the whole truth, from the left wing cable news, or papers. American's iare poorly uninformed about current issues, do the research yourself, really look into socialist ideas, really study it: compare it to our wonderful free country.
What does "freedom" have to do with socialism? Socialism is an economic system, in which enterprises are owned either by their employees (workers' self-management) or the State (state socialism), or combined. You can have a democratic government and personal freedoms along with a socialist economic system.

So my question to you is, what's so dangerous about socialism as an economic system? Why would it hinder "freedom" so much in your opinion?
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Re: Socialism

#21

Post by Graceismine » Sun May 13, 2012 3:07 am

Seraph wrote:In the political world today, a common word we see come up is the word "socialism". This word is often used by many to paint the possible future America under liberals as a hellscape of horror. I thought I'd start a thread to discuss, what is so bad about socialism? Some say that it punishes hard workers and deincentivizes people from working, while others say that it is more in line with Jesus' teachings of helping the poor and less fortunate and solves a lot of the injustices that spring up in a purely lassez faire capitalist system. What do you think?

Note: I am not a Socialist. I only start this to start an interesting dialouge. :)
The socialism that is spoken of today and which America (through Obama) is embracing is not the same as in the days of Communism and red pinkos. Socialism today is a means of bringing down capitalist societies in order to open up the world to a global society. It embraces open trade, shared environmental issues and eventually shared economies. Already the Pope is calling for a world bank.

At the time of the Tower of Babel God divided the nations. Today the antichrist spirit that is working in the world is bringing us all together again. A one world system will eventually be put in place that could never happen under so called Capitalism. Please notice that while they are all squeaking "socialism" men like George Soros and the global money buyers are getting richer and richer. Nope, the socialism we are hearing about is definitely not what it appears to be or what "they" would like us to think it to be..caring for the hungry. What a laugh!

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Re: Socialism

#22

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Tue May 15, 2012 1:51 pm

Reactionary wrote:So my question to [Tpatt17] is, what's so dangerous about socialism as an economic system? Why would it hinder "freedom" so much in your opinion?
I think it is significant that no American has answered your question. In my capacity of an old man who has travelled a lot, I'm not surprised. Americans are a very nice people, probably the nicest people I've ever met. They are always willing to help, have a ready smile, they say Have a nice day! and really mean it. They are altruists, gregarious, curious, wonderful. American restauraunts serve HUGE portions of food at low cost; this trait best exemplifies the American character: generosity.

What does all this have to do with socialism? Well...Americans don't know about socialism and the word scares them. ''Freedom'' is an American buzzword which means - to an American - the quality of not being coerced or constrained to do something or to think some particular way. So...socialism just won't work in the USA because the people don't need to be coerced into being nice or constrained into helping their neighbor. Americans just do it naturally. When Haiti had its earthquake, the USA (& Israel) were there first. When Turkey had its earthquake, American aid got there first and in great quantities. When Indonesia had its tsunami, American aid got there way before ''aid'' from Muslim countries.

Just to recap: Americans don't need socialism because they are social.

FL y**==
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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Socialism

#23

Post by PaulSacramento » Wed May 16, 2012 6:29 am

Canadians are more awesome than Americans :)

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Re: Socialism

#24

Post by RickD » Wed May 16, 2012 8:12 am

PaulSacramento wrote:Canadians are more awesome than Americans :)
:sban: :redcard: :comeon: :shijacked: :srofl: :spoop: :nono:
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Re: Socialism

#25

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Wed May 16, 2012 1:33 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:Canadians are more awesome than Americans :)
Not at all. Anyway, there is a great cultural divide along linguistic lines in Canada and one group is very different from the other. Neither group is as nice as Americans. You've got to get out more!

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Socialism

#26

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu May 17, 2012 6:22 am

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:Canadians are more awesome than Americans :)
Not at all. Anyway, there is a great cultural divide along linguistic lines in Canada and one group is very different from the other. Neither group is as nice as Americans. You've got to get out more!

FL
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Re: Socialism

#27

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu May 17, 2012 1:17 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:Lies I say, LIES !!!
Are you an expatriate Canadian now living in a much better country but too proud to admit it?

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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Re: Socialism

#28

Post by Dallas » Fri May 25, 2012 9:57 am

I'm bumping this page because I want to discuss something.

I was talking to somebody about Socialism and how I prefer it more than Democracy. I told him it's basically the same as a Democracy, just the government owns some business ,free health care, etc... For reference, he is a Christian man, but he seems to be narrow minded on the subject. What could cause him to be this way? Could one of the reasons be that someone always rises to power and it's not a socialist government anymore?
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Re: Socialism

#29

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Fri May 25, 2012 4:04 pm

Dallas wrote:I'm bumping this page because I want to discuss something.

I was talking to somebody about Socialism and how I prefer it more than Democracy. I told him it's basically the same as a Democracy, just the government owns some business ,free health care, etc... For reference, he is a Christian man, but he seems to be narrow minded on the subject. What could cause him to be this way? Could one of the reasons be that someone always rises to power and it's not a socialist government anymore?
The answer is here:
Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote: Well...Americans don't know about socialism and the word scares them. ''Freedom'' is an American buzzword which means - to an American - the quality of not being coerced or constrained to do something or to think some particular way. So...socialism just won't work in the USA because the people don't need to be coerced into being nice or constrained into helping their neighbor.

Just to recap: Americans don't need socialism because they are social.
FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

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Re: Socialism

#30

Post by touchingcloth » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:54 pm

Tpatt17 wrote:Look what happens to socialist countries; Is it fair that a fast food worker would make the same as a doctor?
Wut. What implementation of socialism have you come across where doctors and fast food workers are paid the same?
Tpatt17 wrote:American's iare poorly uninformed about current issues, do the research yourself, really look into socialist ideas, really study it: compare it to our wonderful free country.
O! pots and kettles abound.

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