Socialism

Discussions about politics and goings on around the world. (Please keep discussions civil!)
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1over137
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Re: Socialism

#61

Post by 1over137 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:42 pm

Seraph wrote:Why must you toy with my emotions? :crying:
He is a clown.
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

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Re: Socialism

#62

Post by B. W. » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:57 pm

Seraph wrote:
Rob wrote:If Jesus was the one carrying out the policies, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. :)
True, true dat.
So Jesus would be pro-abortion right???

Actually Marxism is all about manipulating the lowerclass into bringing down the upperclass so that everyone will be lowerclass with governing ruling class supporting corny capitalist who run the company store.

Marxism and socialism is built upon hate. lies, and revenge. It is not about fairness - its all about hate spurred on by envy...

No Jesus would have no part of that system a system that hates, manipulates, uses the poor as political pawns for elitist power grabs. Jesus would not support abortion nor would he support gay rights either, nor would he accept the bullying tactics of the left...

Jesus would not support moral relativism taught in schools,nor pornography in the guise of free speech, nor the violation of the Ten Commandments and their being removed from schools etc...

Jesus would not support the break up of traditional marriage and replace it with a gerbil free love mentality either.

Jesus would not support a political philosophy of Saul David Alinsky who dedicated his book to Lucifer...

Let's face it - Jesus would be anti-socialist and Marxist and all the wild radicalness its supports. In fact, in the book of Revelation - He will return and destroy it once and for all...

Have a nice day :wave:
Uggghhh, straw men, straw men, and more straw men.

I'm strictly talking about the economic system, not abortion, not marriage, not any of that. Geez. No I don't think Jesus would support abortion, so calm down.
Sooner or later maybe you'll actually address the mechanics of the economic model itself instead of dismiss it as being rooted in hate. Socialism doesn't necessarily lead to another Soviet Union. Slightly off the wall socialists existing doesn't discredit the idea as a whole. Socialism has nothing to do with gay marriage or abortion, those are different issues entirely. Socialism does not in itself advocate moral relativism. Socialism in itself is an economic idea. You can't just lazily lump all those things into one category.

Learn your logical fallacies. You are just drowning in them.
y:-?

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Re: Socialism

#63

Post by B. W. » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:09 am

RickD wrote:,,,,Like I said, obama's socialistic policies plus his pro homosexual, pro baby murder policies are what gives him his anti-Christian image. His policies as a whole is what makes his political image.
y:-?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 3939340666

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-spy-ship- ... cAUS_QtDMD
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Re: Socialism

#64

Post by B. W. » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:58 am

Regarding socialist mode of economics:

This was Mandatory Reading back in College - boring but lays out the socialist economic system and the slow process to change national economies into one, all proven only to fail time and again. Written 1899... Evolutionary Socialism

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... 899/evsoc/

Here are the two types of socialism defined Revolutionary (violent) and Evolutionary (slow-steady-infiltrating) - the goals are the same and the two sides fight each other to this day:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 954AA1Hg84

More on Reformism known as Evolutionary Socialism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformism


Please note the ideas of Socialism came about during an era in history when there were no child labor laws, no EPA, no CPA, no rules to wages or safe working conditions.

Marxist didactic thought will have people believe we still live in the days and times of Upton Sinclair ... Jim Crow laws ... fat cat exploiting tycoons ...etc and etc... Times have changed but the presupposition of Socialism has not...

Evolutionary Socialism (1899) by Bernstein writes this about the mode of operation of Revolutionary Socialism:
b) The Economic Capacities of Co-operative Associations

First, the Marxist practice is predominantly political, and is directed towards the conquest of political power and attributes, and gives importance almost solely to the trade union movement, as a direct form of the class struggle of the workers. But with respect to the co-operative societies, the conviction was forced on Marx that on a small scale it was fruitless, and would, moreover, have at the most only a very limited experimental value. Only through the community could something be begun. Marx expresses himself in this sense on the associations of workmen in the 18 Brumaire.
Evolutionary Socialism (1899) by Bernstein writes this illustration at the end of his book:
To-day it needs, in addition to the fighting spirit, the co-ordinating and constructive thinkers who are intellectually enough advanced to be able to separate the chaff from the wheat, who are great enough in their mode of thinking to recognize also the little plant that has grown on another soil than theirs, and who, perhaps, though not kings, are warmhearted republicans in the domain of socialist thought.
Cannot help but think of Obama and the Ivy League elites and those warmhearted republicans (rhinos) but that is not whom he was referring to way back when ...

In closing:

Here are the last of the Ten C's

-Thou shalt not steal.

-Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor

-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house,

-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his animals, nor any thing that is thy neighbors.

Yet, socialism is predicated and built upon the violation and exploitation of these in order to bring down an economic system that no longer exist...

The big question is why?

Social Justice? Harmony, 4 hour work days? All people making 100 dollars an hour with bread costing 25 dollars? 500 happy workers making every decision to run a business (how can 2 people let alone 500 agree on matters concerning getting something done).

No, socialism is all about absolute control of populations by a small governing elite providing cover for the real fat cat tycoons who own all goods and services that sell to the populace ... a real animal farm...

Jesus would not support a system that violates the Ten C's...
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Re: Socialism

#65

Post by The Protector » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:47 am

Seraph, What did Jesus say were the greatest commandments?

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Re: Socialism

#66

Post by Seraph » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:31 pm

Love the Lord, and love your neighbor as yourself.

It's difficult for me to say which economic system best fits this though. Different models "love" different groups.
I am committed to belief in God, as the most morally demanding, psychologically enriching, intellectually satisfying and imaginatively fruitful hypothesis about the ultimate nature of reality known to me - Keith Ward

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Re: Socialism

#67

Post by The Protector » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:32 pm

Exactly right. We are, each of us, to love God and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

This means caring for those who are in need of assistance -- giving to and serving the poor. Essentially, making sacrifices for those less fortunate than ourselves. It takes very little love to take money from one person and give it to another. Socialists delude themselves with their self-congratulatory insistence on how much they "care" for the poor; it's always easy to be generous with someone else's money. Now, this does not address whether or not socialism is the bee's knees of economic systems, but it has little to do with love or serving God. Certainly, someone living in a socialist economy can give to and love one's neighbor, but in doing so one is acting outside of (and in addition to) the socialist economic system; this demonstration of love and service to God owes nothing to socialism, and indeed one performs such an act within the scope of one's economic [market] freedom -- a freedom that is by definition circumscribed by a socialist system.

In other words, we can only give to others to the extent that we have the freedom to do so. One can only give money or goods to others to the extent that one is economically free. Even in the nice, fluffy, friendly version of a socialist state that Fabians envision, one is heavily taxed so that the government can "care for the poor" (or whomever) in whatever way the government bureaucracy sees fit, and the more one is taxed for this purpose, the less one has to actually give to the poor (or to the Church, or whatever). One can pat oneself on the back for paying lots of taxes, but in the end such a person has only rendered unto Caesar what Caesar claimed as his due -- one has not yet rendered unto God what is due God. Moreover, the effect such a system has on the populous is morally corrosive, as people increasingly see caring for the poor as the responsibility of the State instead of as an individual responsibility God has given each one of us, people tend to think less and less about actually seeing and loving their poor neighbors and content themselves with self-satisfied belief that they vote "correctly."

So yeah, maybe, just maybe -- against all historical evidence -- socialism will bring about a wonderful, peaceful egalitarian society in which poverty is eliminated. But it has nothing to do with loving one's neighbor or serving God.

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