Universal Health Care

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BryanH
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Re: Universal Health Care

#31

Post by BryanH » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:35 pm

I think you hit the nail on the head, FL. Too many people looking for a free ride.
Health care is a luxury? Really now? The US has state of the art medical technology and very good doctors, but the cost for actually going to a doctor in case you have a medical problem, well, that is a sci-fi story in terms of numbers. I see many people treating health care as a business. This can only go half away because you can't actually talk about a human being's health in terms of money. You can't put a price on someone's life. Insurance companies in the US do that. Some companies prefer being sued rather than paying even insured people because it's cheaper than the treatment. So I prefer Universal Health Insurance because it's more fair and moral above all.

Now let's talk about Germany: I don't know how many of you know but Germany had to close down hospitals because their prevention methods are so good that people don't get sick as they once did. Also they have a MANDATORY 6 months or annual checkup. If you refuse doing that you get fined and you will go to see a doctor eventually. How many fines can you afford?

So instead of talking about who is right and wrong let's follow the example of the best and that's Germany from my point of view. If they had to close down hospitals because they didn't have patients anymore, well, that says a lot about their strategy: IT WORKS!!

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Re: Universal Health Care

#32

Post by RickD » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:02 pm

BryanH wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head, FL. Too many people looking for a free ride.
Health care is a luxury? Really now? The US has state of the art medical technology and very good doctors, but the cost for actually going to a doctor in case you have a medical problem, well, that is a sci-fi story in terms of numbers. I see many people treating health care as a business. This can only go half away because you can't actually talk about a human being's health in terms of money. You can't put a price on someone's life. Insurance companies in the US do that. Some companies prefer being sued rather than paying even insured people because it's cheaper than the treatment. So I prefer Universal Health Insurance because it's more fair and moral above all.

Now let's talk about Germany: I don't know how many of you know but Germany had to close down hospitals because their prevention methods are so good that people don't get sick as they once did. Also they have a MANDATORY 6 months or annual checkup. If you refuse doing that you get fined and you will go to see a doctor eventually. How many fines can you afford?

So instead of talking about who is right and wrong let's follow the example of the best and that's Germany from my point of view. If they had to close down hospitals because they didn't have patients anymore, well, that says a lot about their strategy: IT WORKS!!
I think Russia has the best healthcare system in the world. In Russia, the govt. gives away bottles of vodka. That increases alcoholism, and liver disease. Many people there die at a young age, from cirrhosis of the liver. That keeps the elderly population down, thereby decreasing the cost of old age healthcare. ;)
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Re: Universal Health Care

#33

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:51 pm

BryanH wrote:Now let's talk about Germany: I don't know how many of you know but Germany had to close down hospitals because their prevention methods are so good that people don't get sick as they once did. Also they have a MANDATORY 6 months or annual checkup. If you refuse doing that you get fined and you will go to see a doctor eventually. How many fines can you afford?
I think you are refering to the shut down of hospital wards in Germany because of staffing problems.(Medical personnel moving to high paying jobs in Switzerland!) Also, where did you get the 6 month/annual mandatory checkup? This is for pilots and prostitutes, not for the general population. (I'm a pilot, my wife's a...nurse.)
RickD wrote:I think Russia has the best healthcare system in the world. In Russia, the govt. gives away bottles of vodka. That increases alcoholism, and liver disease. Many people there die at a young age, from cirrhosis of the liver. That keeps the elderly population down, thereby decreasing the cost of old age healthcare.
Free booze? I'm moving to Russia!

FL
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Re: Universal Health Care

#34

Post by pebbleanrock » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:33 pm

I come from sydney. We have a thing called bulk billing here. All it costs me to see a doctor is the petrol to get there. I notice england france canada new zealand, practically every civilized western nation has free health. Why is the U.S. so retarded and nasty regarding their poor. Rich people dont care because they can afford it. Very anti-christ.

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Re: Universal Health Care

#35

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 am

pebbleanrock wrote:I come from sydney. We have a thing called bulk billing here. All it costs me to see a doctor is the petrol to get there. I notice england france canada new zealand, practically every civilized western nation has free health. Why is the U.S. so retarded and nasty regarding their poor. Rich people dont care because they can afford it. Very anti-christ.
There are many ''civilized western nations'' that do not have free health care. I don't see what civilization and public health care have to do one with the other; please explain! Also, since when is private (pay-as-you-go) health care unchristian?

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Universal Health Care

#36

Post by BryanH » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 am

Also, since when is private (pay-as-you-go) health care unchristian?
Since some companies play with your life for a profit... You see that as a Christian/ok like thing? I'm speaking mainly about the situation in the US when I refer to insurance companies playing with your life... You don't need to be a Christian to realize that there is something wrong about making a profit out of someone'e misery. From my point of view there shouldn't be any private health insurance companies at all. Health is a right and not something you buy with money. And since citizens are required to pay tax to the government, they should be automatically insured.

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Re: Universal Health Care

#37

Post by Byblos » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:35 am

BryanH wrote:
Also, since when is private (pay-as-you-go) health care unchristian?
Since some companies play with your life for a profit... You see that as a Christian/ok like thing? I'm speaking mainly about the situation in the US when I refer to insurance companies playing with your life... You don't need to be a Christian to realize that there is something wrong about making a profit out of someone'e misery. From my point of view there shouldn't be any private health insurance companies at all. Health is a right and not something you buy with money. And since citizens are required to pay tax to the government, they should be automatically insured.
Bigger, more powerful government that will have absolute control of people's lives. Socialism to the core.
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Re: Universal Health Care

#38

Post by BryanH » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:10 am

Bigger, more powerful government that will have absolute control of people's lives. Socialism to the core.
Can you please explain your statement? How does the government control my life by offering me health insurance? And even if it would be socialism to the core, let's not forget that all types of political regimes come with advantages and disadvantages. I don't understand why we shouldn't learn from others if they are better at something than you are? I'm not saying that you should change all things, but some could be changed for the better using another system. Do you see something wrong with that?

Instead of pointing fingers maybe we should develop a political system that actually encompasses all good things from previous regimes instead of just doing things a certain way.

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Re: Universal Health Care

#39

Post by RickD » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:23 am

BryanH wrote:
Health is a right and not something you buy with money. And since citizens are required to pay tax to the government, they should be automatically insured.
Bryan, I admit, I've never heard anyone say that health is a "right". Could you please tell me where this "right to insurance" comes from?

Oh, btw, I believe having a shelter for my family is a "right". And since I'm required to pay taxes, I believe the govt. should provide me with a free house. How dare anyone take away my "right" to keep my family safe in a home, by making me pay for a house. :roll:
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Re: Universal Health Care

#40

Post by BryanH » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:47 am

Bryan, I admit, I've never heard anyone say that health is a "right". Could you please tell me where this "right to insurance" comes from?

Oh, btw, I believe having a shelter for my family is a "right". And since I'm required to pay taxes, I believe the govt. should provide me with a free house. How dare anyone take away my "right" to keep my family safe in a home, by making me pay for a house.
How can you say that you never heard anyone say that health is a right? The Human Rights Declaration?
Oh, btw, I believe having a shelter for my family is a "right". And since I'm required to pay taxes, I believe the govt. should provide me with a free house. How dare anyone take away my "right" to keep my family safe in a home, by making me pay for a house
I agree with you. The government should give you a free house. I see that your location is Florida thus you are from the US. Your government asks you to pay taxes and has spent tens of billions on endless wars. Now the government and local councils are making budget cuts in education and closing down public schools.

I have one question: What does your government offer in return for the taxes you pay?

Do you see that as something normal/ok? Your government has spent tax money on wars and killing people... but they can't afford to offer universal health insurance... really now?

Maybe I'm pushing too far here, but you seem not to care about people in your country who are poor and can't afford basic things... And I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about a socio-economical environment where people could at least have a decent life...

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Re: Universal Health Care

#41

Post by jlay » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:02 am

Maybe I'm pushing too far here, but you seem not to care about people in your country who are poor and can't afford basic things... And I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about a socio-economical environment where people could at least have a decent life...
Ad-hominem, appeal to poverty. Let's refrain from such.

It isn't any wonder that the people who live at the lowest standard in this country are those who are most dependent on the government. Most of them are already receiving some type of state or federal health care. Plus assistance with food and housing. Taxes require no empathy from me or anyone else.

A sense of entitlement, where one thinks the government and others are obligated, is just as bad as not caring for the poor.
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Re: Universal Health Care

#42

Post by BryanH » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:57 pm

A sense of entitlement, where one thinks the government and others are obligated, is just as bad as not caring for the poor.
The government has a purpose so yes, it is obligated...
others are obligated
Let me give you an example: if you have a college degree and you earn $100,000/year or more that doesn't mean that a person who earns $18,000/year and works at Starbucks shouldn't have access to the same quality medical care as you.

The fact that you make more money shouldn't be used as comparisson when offering medical care. We end up at the same point which I was talking about here in a previous comment: you can't put a price on someone's life.

I understand that the US is based on capitalism but you can't apply the same measure for all things. The current situation in the US is caused by the fact that capitalism was applied in all areas and as I have read online, some people want to transform public schools and privatize them, making them profitable and business like...

so...
no money, no education
no education, no money
no money, no health care

Nice path huh?

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Re: Universal Health Care

#43

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:02 pm

BryanH wrote:
Also, since when is private (pay-as-you-go) health care unchristian?
Since some companies play with your life for a profit... You see that as a Christian/ok like thing? I'm speaking mainly about the situation in the US when I refer to insurance companies playing with your life... You don't need to be a Christian to realize that there is something wrong about making a profit out of someone'e misery. From my point of view there shouldn't be any private health insurance companies at all. Health is a right and not something you buy with money. And since citizens are required to pay tax to the government, they should be automatically insured.
First, companies are not Christian, people are Christian. Second, companies do not ''play'' with your life for a profit. Even a casino in Las Vegas doesn't do that!

Third, if you are not happy with private health care in the USA, move to Canada! We have no economic crisis, jobs are plentiful, you can speak English, ''global warming'' has made the climate more clement, you can get all your 'merican TeeVee shows here, you can buy People magazine, we've even got football, lotteries, booze, no censorship, we have more freedoms than in the USA and - AND - we have public health care! You don't pay a cent for your visit to the doctor!!!

What's there not to love? I'm waiting for you.

FL

EDIT: Canada also has much, much cheaper drugs than you can buy in the USA. If you want to be sick, this is the place to be!
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Universal Health Care

#44

Post by BryanH » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:16 am

Third, if you are not happy with private health care in the USA, move to Canada! We have no economic crisis, jobs are plentiful, you can speak English, ''global warming'' has made the climate more clement, you can get all your 'merican TeeVee shows here, you can buy People magazine, we've even got football, lotteries, booze, no censorship, we have more freedoms than in the USA and - AND - we have public health care! You don't pay a cent for your visit to the doctor!!!
Good point. Let's all move to Canada!!!

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Re: Universal Health Care

#45

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:05 pm

BryanH wrote:Good point. Let's all move to Canada!!!
Ambulance trips are also free! Canada's a great place to be sick!

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

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