Universal Health Care

Discussions about politics and goings on around the world. (Please keep discussions civil!)
User avatar
B. W.
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8365
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
Christian: Yes
Location: Colorado
Has liked: 102 times
Been liked: 260 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#16

Post by B. W. » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:10 am

Everyone knows there needs to be Health care reform in the USA. It is an issues – who do you trust?

Obama Care is not about health care. It was written in such a manner as to impose complete governmental control over the citizenry of the USA. It sets in place, legal structures (rules), that later can be built off. It sets forth precepts in which future legislation can build off of. It is a very bad bill, passed, without proper reading, debate, and passed by bypassing the other half of the US Congress, who were shut out of the debate entirely. In other countries, this is how dictatorships do things.

This bill, is not about health care. Evil seduces through promises of liberty and fairness to sucker people into its real trap. The below article makes a case about what this bill is about:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... r-subjects

The bible puts the onus on the Church to take care of those that needed it. In many cases, this is failing and falling by the wayside. He reasons are many. One is governmental intrusion into the realm of 501-3c with new rules and mandates and fostering a drumbeat belief system that only government is the solution. By in large, the church has been forced out of health care. Many of its hospitals have gone under a new name and titles. I found it hard to find the Lutheran Health Care Hospitals these days, is an example of this. Also, The insurance industry needs regulating such as not denying anyone due to preexisting conditions, etc and etc.

Another area that needs reform is the attack on the church by the left implanting in minds of people that to preach the gospel, you must do so for free. Churches do need funds to take care of people. Some do the best with what they have. I was at one in Rapid City a few weeks ago. Do you realize the majority of pastors are broke when they retire and have no system in place to provide for them? Bible says, a workman is worthy of his hire…

If anyone wants to really known what Obama care intends for the entire USA and the desire of the progressive left radicals for the USA, you need not travel far. Please go to the Native American Reservations and see the utopia they have planned for you.

We need health care reform but not the way the left designs it and intends to use it.

What I find, is that many who support Obama care do so from motives explained in James 3:14, 15, 16.c as the basis for their moral justification in implementing such a plan. Take heed.
-
-
-
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

User avatar
Byblos
Old School
Posts: 5951
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:21 pm
Christian: Yes
Location: NY
Has liked: 95 times
Been liked: 139 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#17

Post by Byblos » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:58 pm

RickD wrote:Byblos wrote:
Just last week I called a specialist and made an appointment, saw him this morning, had x-rays done on my heel, found out I had plantar fasciitis, gave me a shot of cortisone and said to come back in a month. If it's not better, we'll schedule surgery within a week or two
Welcome to the wonderful world of plantar fasciitis, Byblos. I've had it for almost 3 months now. The dr. gave me some stretching exercises, and it is slowly getting better. At the rate I'm improving, I should be almost completely better in another month. It's frustrating, because I can't go jogging with my son.

Since I waited so long before I scheduled a dr. appointment,(thought it may get better on its own) I was in serious pain, before i saw the dr. If I had to wait 3 months, under UHC, to see the dr. I may have been bedridden. It hurt that much to walk.
I am a stubborn mule Rick, I've been tolerating this pain for a year now (but that was by choice :wink:). Now I'm to the point it's like stepping on a nail with every single step. Stretching and ice massage at night do help (use a frozen bottle of water on the floor and just roll your foot over it back and forth, it really works). But I have a feeling my case is too far gone not to require surgery. Will see next month.

I miss the gym too, a lot. Between my heel though and the two bad shoulders, there's no way I can work out. Although I saw my endocrinologist this morning and don't you know she found the one exercise that requires no use of feet or shoulders and told me to do it every morning (ab crunches). :twisted: I almost punched her but it would've been more painful for me.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#18

Post by RickD » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:37 pm

I am a stubborn mule Rick, I've been tolerating this pain for a year now (but that was by choice ). Now I'm to the point it's like stepping on a nail with every single step. Stretching and ice massage at night do help (use a frozen bottle of water on the floor and just roll your foot over it back and forth, it really works). But I have a feeling my case is too far gone not to require surgery. Will see next month.
I know what you mean. I hardly ever go to the doctor, myself. The pain just got too much, so I had to go. The water bottle exercise helps, as well as the calf stretch. Every morning before I get out of bed, I do a towel stretch, too.
I miss the gym too, a lot. Between my heel though and the two bad shoulders, there's no way I can work out. Although I saw my endocrinologist this morning and don't you know she found the one exercise that requires no use of feet or shoulders and told me to do it every morning (ab crunches). I almost punched her but it would've been more painful for me.
:lol: You're falling apart, Byblos. :lol:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Danieltwotwenty
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Aussie Land
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 11 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#19

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:52 pm

By the way it is totally free for me to go to the Doctor any time I want and as often as I want, also psychologist and counselling is free too if you are a low income earner.


Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#20

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:11 am

Danieltwotwenty wrote:By the way it is totally free for me to go to the Doctor any time I want and as often as I want, also psychologist and counselling is free too if you are a low income earner.


Dan
If it is totally free, how does the dr. get paid?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Byblos
Old School
Posts: 5951
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:21 pm
Christian: Yes
Location: NY
Has liked: 95 times
Been liked: 139 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#21

Post by Byblos » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:04 pm

RickD wrote:You're falling apart, Byblos. :lol:
I know brother, I know. At least the brain and the memory are still intact. Now where was I?
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#22

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:26 pm

Byblos wrote:
RickD wrote:You're falling apart, Byblos. :lol:
I know brother, I know. At least the brain and the memory are still intact. Now where was I?
I don't remember. :pound:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Danieltwotwenty
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Aussie Land
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 11 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#23

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:22 pm

RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:By the way it is totally free for me to go to the Doctor any time I want and as often as I want, also psychologist and counselling is free too if you are a low income earner.


Dan
If it is totally free, how does the dr. get paid?

Doctor get's paid by medicare which comes from our taxes.

Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#24

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:24 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:
RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:By the way it is totally free for me to go to the Doctor any time I want and as often as I want, also psychologist and counselling is free too if you are a low income earner.


Dan
If it is totally free, how does the dr. get paid?

Doctor get's paid by medicare which comes from our taxes.

Dan
So actually, the only people who have free doctor visits, are those who don't pat taxes, correct?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#25

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:10 pm

RickD wrote:So actually, the only people who have free doctor visits, are those who don't pay taxes, correct?
That's how it works in Canada. I'm not a fan of ''Universal Health Care'' as it leads to abuse, underfunding and antiquated technology. The US system is great if you have money but we keep hearing that most Americans either are under insured or have no insurance. (I'm not sure if this is just socialized-medicine propaganda or if it's true, but it makes sense.) The French model is better as it is a mix of public and private funding. The Swiss model is even better because it is private (like the USA) but with compulsory funding through your income taxes, and everybody gets the same quality service; and if you're willing to pay more from your pocket, you'll get a nicer room & more attentive service.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

Danieltwotwenty
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Aussie Land
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 11 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#26

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:02 pm

RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:
RickD wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:By the way it is totally free for me to go to the Doctor any time I want and as often as I want, also psychologist and counselling is free too if you are a low income earner.


Dan
If it is totally free, how does the dr. get paid?

Doctor get's paid by medicare which comes from our taxes.

Dan
So actually, the only people who have free doctor visits, are those who don't pat taxes, correct?

No incorrect, I work and pay tax and my visits are free.
*edit* are we not to look after the less fortunate, the sick or down trodden etc..?
Dan
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#27

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:53 pm

No incorrect, I work and pay tax and my visits are free.
*edit* are we not to look after the less fortunate, the sick or down trodden etc..?
Daniel, if you pay taxes that fund Medicare, then, you and everyone else who pays taxes, are paying for your visits, and that makes them "not free". When we pay for our health insurance provided by our employer, and we have an office visit that we don't have to pay for at the time of the visit, that doesn't make the visit free. It's just included in what's paid overall. It's just paid for at another time. Same as taxpayer funded healthcare.

As far as looking after the less fortunate, sick, etc., then yes, as we are led to help others, we should, IMO.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Ivellious
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Universal Health Care

#28

Post by Ivellious » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:28 pm

I hardly think that paying taxes makes something "not free" in the sense that Daniel is talking about. I'm presuming he means it's not run where you have t pay copays or anything like that when you see a doctor. I mean, by the logic that "taxes mean it's not free" then I guess having roads and k-12 education in America are things that we pay for, but I don't think that's quite the point.

Besides, raised taxes would still mean healthcare is cheaper for practically everybody who pays for health insurance right now.

And, I think someone suggested it might be propaganda to say that lots of people in the US are under-insured/uninsured. If you want proof, you can head to the nearest metropolitan area's homeless shelter and see how many of them can pay for privatized health care. In fact, I'd daresay even if they tried to pay, 90% of them would be turned down by an insurer. That's perhaps the biggest injustice that universal health care systems can remedy; the fact that in America, insurance companies are not required to actually cover all types of medical procedures and reserve the right to turn away anybody who they don't want to insure. That's just messed up, in my opinion.

User avatar
Furstentum Liechtenstein
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:55 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: It's Complicated
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Lower Canuckistan
Has liked: 110 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#29

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:53 pm

Ivellious wrote:head to the nearest metropolitan area's homeless shelter and see how many of them can pay for privatized health care. In fact, I'd daresay even if they tried to pay, 90% of them would be turned down by an insurer. That's perhaps the biggest injustice that universal health care systems can remedy; the fact that in America, insurance companies are not required to actually cover all types of medical procedures and reserve the right to turn away anybody who they don't want to insure. That's just messed up, in my opinion.
Even so, health care is a luxury; it isn't a right. Your country has chosen to not provide public heath care and there are many benefits to your system. These include up-to-date equipment, no long wait times for consultations or surgeries, non-overworked medical personnel, no overpopulation of patients in hospitals, great salaries in the medical field (which attract talent from beyond your borders, further improving your system)...I could go on and on and on.

Any system will have advantages & disadvantages...you have to expect that.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21187
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1062 times

Re: Universal Health Care

#30

Post by RickD » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:10 pm

FL wrote:
Even so, health care is a luxury; it isn't a right
I think you hit the nail on the head, FL. Too many people looking for a free ride.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Post Reply