Health care reform - how does that play into being pro-life?

[Silvertusk]

It solves a lot of problems though - the NHS means that anyone suffering from Cancer can get treatment. Ok there are some issues that might involve travelling, and there are waiting lists - but everyone can get treatment. People who are richer can go private anyway to avoid some of the NHS pitfalls. Dental care is free up to a certain age and then for certain groups.

Basically the idea of someone in America suffering in pain that an operation can fix - but they can't afford it - does not seem right to me at all. Denying people treatment if they do not have insurance is cruel and evil and it surprises me that a Christian Country such as America can do that.

Silvertusk

[RickD]

It solves a lot of problems though - the NHS means that anyone suffering from Cancer can get treatment. Ok there are some issues that might involve travelling, and there are waiting lists - but everyone can get treatment. People who are richer can go private anyway to avoid some of the NHS pitfalls. Dental care is free up to a certain age and then for certain groups.

Basically the idea of someone in America suffering in pain that an operation can fix - but they can't afford it - does not seem right to me at all. Denying people treatment if they do not have insurance is cruel and evil and it surprises me that a Christian Country such as America can do that.

Silvertusk

Well, here we go again! A Christian Country? Are you serious? When you say "Christian", you must mean some generic form of "Christian". Correct? If we are a Christian Country, is Pres. Obama our "Pastor"?

[Silvertusk]

It is a country founded on Christian principles. So yes I would class America as a "Christian" country.

[RickD]

It is a country founded on Christian principles. So yes I would class America as a "Christian" country.

Have you ever lived in America? I wouldn't classify it as a Christian country. A country where we are free to worship as Christians. A country where people are free to not worship as Christians if they choose. There is no "Church of America". Part of the reason America was founded was to get away from the "christian" nation that our founders left. I hope the freedom to worship here as we wish, is never taken away by our becoming a "christian nation".

[Texasmomof3]

With all due respect, I think that it is incorrect to say that Britain is doing well with their current health care system. I get daily e-mails from several British papers, and there are always stories about problems with their health care system! And as for Canada, why did the Minister of New Foundland come to the United States for heart surgery if Canada's system is so good?

I think California is a prime example of what is wrong with our system, as it is over 3 Billion dollars in the hole because of services , yes, I'm sorry to say, for illegals. It is a sad fact that a country can NOT take care of all of the people who need help, without destroying itself. We have to take care of our LEGAL citizens first, or the consequences will be that we will be flooded even further with people from all around the world needing help, and the result will be that no one will get adequate care. I KNOW this to be true, as my Mom fell in December, and broke her right wrist and ankle, and they couldn't get her out of the hospital and rehab fast enough! They wanted her to be out and on her own before she was ready because they are way too overwhelmed to handle everyone. My Mom worked hard for over 30 years at Mervyn's, and paid her share of taxes, and deserves to be taken care of. They also need to cut back on what they cover, they shouldn't be covering sex change operations, as that is a personal issue, not a health issue. I have a couple links relating to the health care of Britain and Canada, and would be happy to provide more if you need further proof that their system would NOT work in acountry as large as ours. I would also encourage you to get updates from teh FBI, as they are always posting new arrest for medicare fraud, and these are the ones they catch, so imagine how many get away with it! And we want the government to take over everything??

Up to 1,200 needless deaths, patients abused, staff bullied to meet targets... yet a secret inquiry into failing hospital says no one's to blame

Up to 1,200 people lost their lives needlessly because Mid Staffordshire NHS Trust put government targets and cost-cutting ahead of patient care, a report has found.

Full Story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ients.html

25 February 2010
http://www.dailymail.co.uk

Canadian Premier comes to US for heart surgery
Posted by
Andrew Odom
in Opinions
Wednesday, February 10. 2010
Comments (80)
Written by Bob Barr for ajc.com
------------------------------------------

The Premier for Newfoundland, one of Canada's eastern provinces, underwent heart surgery last week. Where do you suppose Premier Danny Williams went for his surgery? To a hospital in St. John's, the capital city of Newfoundland? Nope. Perhaps he traveled to a larger Canadian metropolis, such as Toronto or Montreal? Guess again. Actually, the premier chose to have his cardiac repair performed not anywhere in his own country. Like so many of his fellow Canadians, Premier Williams eschewed his country's government-insured health care system, and instead came south to the United States to undergo life-saving and time-sensitive surgery.

While neither the premier's office nor other officials outlets in Canada would disclose the location of the hospital where Williams received his treatment, sources indicated it may have been in Florida. Regardless of where in the US the surgery was performed, the fact that a high-ranking Canadian government leader would forgo receiving medical treatment in his own country and travel instead to the United States to be treated in a health care system that is not yet controlled by the government, has created somewhat of a PR embarrassment for advocates of Canada's government-controlled system. It really shouldn't be an embarrassment; and it certainly shouldn't surprise anyone.

This episode simply reflects the reality that procedures such as those which the Canadian provincial leader underwent — which are not always available elsewhere — are always readily available in the United States. This incident also is a reflection of the high esteem in which American medicine (especially cardiac medicine) is held throughout the world.

http://www.barnesville.com/archives/204 ... rgery.html

[Texasmomof3]

To clarify, my Mom lives in California, and that is where I was born and raised. And I'm sorry, Rick, but you are wrong. The United States has always been considered a Judeo-Christian country, and we regularly rank at the top of countries with the most believers in God. I believe that is why we are also at the top of the most generous countries in the world. No one gives more to help others and to charities than we do. Our nation was NOT founded to get away from Christian principles, on the contrary, it was to be able to worship freely, and not under the dictates of the King and thereby HIS church of England. But it was most certainly NOT to get away from a "Christan" nation.

[zoegirl]

We are making the perennial problem of confusing an issue of compassion with an issue of *government*. A common attack is to label those who are against government run health care as uncompassionate brutes who wish people to die in the gutters. Of course that is not the case.

But there is an issue of wise financial institution and wise financial decisions and handing money over to a bloated beaurocratic mess that has managed to hemorrhage money and will continue to increase through the years is simply not wise. there are plenty of other options to help defray the costs and help those without insurance to afford it, but a government run is not the answer.

[BavarianWheels]

.
.
If we're to make health care free, shouldn't health care providers as a job be civil service and thus free to pursue as a degree?

Not many things that are free are necessarily the best. If they are initially, being free degrades it over time.
.
.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

America is a Christian nation?

America is the world's biggest producer of pornography; and the biggest purveyor of abortions in the Western world.

It is a country founded on Christian principles.

Agreed. And it still has a sizeable truly-Christian population, which affords it some measure of God's grace...but I'm speculating. In any event, the USA is a financial basket case - worse off than Greece - so its days of glory are waning quickly. Heaven help us! because the next #1 nation will probably not be so gentle and guided by lofty ethics.

And as for Canada, why did the Minister of New Foundland [sic] come to the United States for heart surgery if Canada's system is so good?

Because Mr. Williams is wealthy and is able to pay, so he doesn't have to wait in line for medical care in his own country. I would do the same.

FL

[Texasmomof3]

America is a Christian nation?

America is the world's biggest producer of pornography; and the biggest purveyor of abortions in the Western world.

Sadly, with the great freedom given to us in this country to do what you want for a living and with your life, there will always be people who aim very low, and have very few or non-existent morals and who will be successful in pedaling their smut to the equally immoral people who buy that crap the world over. How open is your country to pornography? Is it easily seen by the public, (especially children) on any store shelf? Are there many places to watch the movies? The Netherlands has open prostitution, Thailand is well known for selling children and child porn and attracts people intent on that purpose from around the world, these are just a couple of examples of low morality in countries other that the U.S.A. . I have good friends in the Netherlands, and I wouldn't smear them with the lack of morality of their fellow countrymen who are also for open drug use, etc.. I think it is a mistake for you to take a SMALL segment of the population, (for you must admit that it is a small percentage of people who actually produce porn in the U.S.), and smear the general population of the United States with that label. I have never know a porn producer in my entire life, and would never care to. Yes, there are people who make it, and because there is such a big demand for it, they produce ALOT of it, but the much bigger population of church--going, and/or spiritual minded people in our country far outweigh the small percentage who make a living in the porn industry. .

As for abortion, unfortunately and tragically, that is what happens with too much liberal thinking and brainwashing of women by the far left in this country. For too long they got away with telling women that it wasn't a baby, just a fetus, and a fetus is nothing, etc., and it grew and grew and you had Planned Parenthood and doctors exploiting women in their time of a uncertainty and fear, by charging them hundreds of dollars for an abortion, and even performing them right up to the moment of birth, like that Dr Tiller. While two wrongs don't make a right, the man who killed him committed a murder, also, but Tiller most certainly was murdering babies, and he made a highly profitable career off of women's pain. It has been very heartening to me to see that the number of young people in favor of abortions in the United States has dropped drastically, and I hope this causes a major change in the landscape of how abortions are perceived and handled here in the United States.

So, yes, I do state emphatically that we are a CHRISTIAN nation. According to a Gallup poll, 9 out of 10, (86%), Americans believe in God.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/27877/americ ... -hell.aspx

[Silvertusk]

With all due respect, I think that it is incorrect to say that Britain is doing well with their current health care system. I get daily e-mails from several British papers, and there are always stories about problems with their health care system! And as for Canada, why did the Minister of New Foundland come to the United States for heart surgery if Canada's system is so good?

I think California is a prime example of what is wrong with our system, as it is over 3 Billion dollars in the hole because of services , yes, I'm sorry to say, for illegals. It is a sad fact that a country can NOT take care of all of the people who need help, without destroying itself. We have to take care of our LEGAL citizens first, or the consequences will be that we will be flooded even further with people from all around the world needing help, and the result will be that no one will get adequate care. I KNOW this to be true, as my Mom fell in December, and broke her right wrist and ankle, and they couldn't get her out of the hospital and rehab fast enough! They wanted her to be out and on her own before she was ready because they are way too overwhelmed to handle everyone. My Mom worked hard for over 30 years at Mervyn's, and paid her share of taxes, and deserves to be taken care of. They also need to cut back on what they cover, they shouldn't be covering sex change operations, as that is a personal issue, not a health issue. I have a couple links relating to the health care of Britain and Canada, and would be happy to provide more if you need further proof that their system would NOT work in acountry as large as ours. I would also encourage you to get updates from teh FBI, as they are always posting new arrest for medicare fraud, and these are the ones they catch, so imagine how many get away with it! And we want the government to take over everything??

Up to 1,200 needless deaths, patients abused, staff bullied to meet targets... yet a secret inquiry into failing hospital says no one's to blame

Up to 1,200 people lost their lives needlessly because Mid Staffordshire NHS Trust put government targets and cost-cutting ahead of patient care, a report has found.

Full Story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ients.html

25 February 2010
http://www.dailymail.co.uk

Canadian Premier comes to US for heart surgery
Posted by
Andrew Odom
in Opinions
Wednesday, February 10. 2010
Comments (80)
Written by Bob Barr for ajc.com
------------------------------------------

The Premier for Newfoundland, one of Canada's eastern provinces, underwent heart surgery last week. Where do you suppose Premier Danny Williams went for his surgery? To a hospital in St. John's, the capital city of Newfoundland? Nope. Perhaps he traveled to a larger Canadian metropolis, such as Toronto or Montreal? Guess again. Actually, the premier chose to have his cardiac repair performed not anywhere in his own country. Like so many of his fellow Canadians, Premier Williams eschewed his country's government-insured health care system, and instead came south to the United States to undergo life-saving and time-sensitive surgery.

While neither the premier's office nor other officials outlets in Canada would disclose the location of the hospital where Williams received his treatment, sources indicated it may have been in Florida. Regardless of where in the US the surgery was performed, the fact that a high-ranking Canadian government leader would forgo receiving medical treatment in his own country and travel instead to the United States to be treated in a health care system that is not yet controlled by the government, has created somewhat of a PR embarrassment for advocates of Canada's government-controlled system. It really shouldn't be an embarrassment; and it certainly shouldn't surprise anyone.

This episode simply reflects the reality that procedures such as those which the Canadian provincial leader underwent — which are not always available elsewhere — are always readily available in the United States. This incident also is a reflection of the high esteem in which American medicine (especially cardiac medicine) is held throughout the world.

http://www.barnesville.com/archives/204 ... rgery.html

You see this is the problem with the media - It is always happy to report the failures of any system - because that is what makes news. I tell you this for a fact - I can count on one hand the amount of articles I have read that state the successes of the NHS - does that mean the NHS is a failure - no - it saves hundreds of lives every day. And do you hear the Media talking about that - no of course you dont - Bad news is Good news and it sells papers - so don't believe everything you read. Does it means that the NHS is perfect - no of course. But any health care system that tries to provide free health care (via taxes) to all people no matter what their income is a system that should be supported, encouraged and helped. I am very proud of our NHS and it takes a lot of unneccessary stick - because it is an easy target and the media likes easy targets. It is based on christian principles that all who are sick can get treatment. If anyone think that is wrong - then I really don't understand where you are coming from.

Silvertusk.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

How open is your country to pornography?

As open as yours. I wasn't criticizing the USA, though.

So, yes, I do state emphatically that we are a CHRISTIAN nation. According to a Gallup poll, 9 out of 10, (86%), Americans believe in God.

9 out of 10 believe in God? They may say that to a pollster but are their lives changed and guided by Christ, The God? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say «9 out of 10 Americans believe in a god.» The nature of their god remains to be determined!

Does it means that the NHS is perfect - no of course.

There will be systemic problems whatever is chosen: private or public healthcare. Neither system is more «Christian» than the other and both have advantages and disadvantages.

FL

[chance]

With all due respect, I think that it is incorrect to say that Britain is doing well with their current health care system.

Well I can find a lot of articles about how bad our police or military are doing (especially when it comes to civilian deaths).

No one is saying single payer systems are perfect, but such systems do cover everyone and ours does not.

There will always be problems with any system - but you have to start somewhere.

Covering everyone is a good start. Has our greed and desire to have more and more money (the CEO's, investors, etc) led to some really good advances? Yep. But let's also look at our military/police/firefighters-rescuers.

We have the most advanced military in the world, some of our inventions in firefighting and rescue lead the world, and our police have some of the most advanced tools of any on the planet - and those services are all paid for by taxes.

Maybe YOU don't believe we in the US can do better than the rest of the world - but I think we can. You think our health care is good now? Imagine if we covered everyone and put those dollars we save through single payer into technology like we do with our armed forces.

America can, and should, do better. Leaving something as critical as health care up to a few companies whose only desire is more profit may lead to some innovation, but it won't lead to the innovation we have seen with NASA, the military, etc - and unlike those other social programs only some are covered.

I am glad God does not make us purchase salvation based on our ability to pay for our sins, else there would be many who could never cover the cost.

The most powerful nation on earth is filled with people who cannot get care and often cannot afford to buy food/pay bills because private companies are raking them over the coals when it comes to things like health care - not to mention how much businesses are paying for health care for employees - costs they pass on to you and I (a tax from a corporation though is seen as ok - they raise your prices and it is ok.....)

America may have the best health care in the world - ***IF*** you can fork over money to pay for it. If you can't? Well...you probably deserve what you have coming....

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

We [the USA] have the most advanced military in the world, some of our inventions in firefighting and rescue lead the world, and our police have some of the most advanced tools of any on the planet - and those services are all paid for by taxes.

Your country is in serious debt. Very, very serious debt. How will the USA pay for universal healthcare? Do you - the public - just toss the healthcare bills onto Debt Mountain and live like there's no tomorrow?

Maybe YOU don't believe we in the US can do better than the rest of the world - but I think we can. You think our health care is good now? Imagine if we covered everyone and put those dollars we save through single payer into technology like we do with our armed forces.

Yes, I think the USA can do better than the rest of the world...but not for long. Your nation's debt alone will limit your future and your options. Also, your present administration in Washington is seriously undermining Israel. Undermining God's Covenant people in favour of His enemies is bad strategy.

The most powerful nation on earth is filled with people who cannot get care and often cannot afford to buy food/pay bills because private companies are raking them over the coals when it comes to things like health care - not to mention how much businesses are paying for health care for employees - costs they pass on to you and I (a tax from a corporation though is seen as ok - they raise your prices and it is ok.....)

I know: I visit the USA often enough. I am always surprised at how many people own Rolls Royces and Aston Martins. I saw Argentina and Peru become progressively poorer in the 1980s: The rich got very rich and the middle class shrunk, their ranks joining the poor. I think the same thing is going on in your country now.

You have my sympathy.

FL

[Harry12345]

Why is it the Brits have bad teeth? Why is it (I presume) the U.S. has the best health care? (in most areas)

I've tasted American... uh... "candy" (?). It's not worth nice teeth.

I used to be for government health care. Now, I'm not so sure, to be honest.