Presidential Election

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zoegirl
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Re: Presidential Election

#16

Post by zoegirl » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:38 pm

McCain/Palin


Obama I dislike for a number of reasons
Financially- He has had shady partnerships and I don't like his idea of raising taxes

Socially- same sex, abortion, choice of supreme court judges

Medically- I know the insurance needs cleaning up, but I shudder to think the government in control of medical policies....since when has beaurocracy and the governemnt turned out well? Ugh....not in favor of socailism

Religion- the fact that he views the Old Testament as out-dated and associated with Rev Wright for 20 years and then had the audacity to claim that he wasn't aware of his views. Either he was was remarkably ignorant of his church's teachings or he didn't care or used the church for political gain.
Anybody going to a church for 20 years and *doesn't* know about the church's teachings? Ignorant, careless, or doesn't care.

Now, I'm not too hung up on somebody being a believer although it would certianly be nice, but this speaks of disingenuous personality. It seems obvious that he used that church merely to further his political career and then he dumped Wright when he wasn't useful anymore. (Same as Ayers....etc)
AS soon as their radical views are public "I don't agree with them"

McCain's not exactly my first choice, however, lesser of the two evils.

I feel that many Americans would feel differently than they do know if only there wasn't such an incredible bias in the media. Obama hasn't been grilled on issues the way other candidates have been. He is their love affair.

kATIE Couric? Oh please....
And huge American influence Oprah won't even have Palin on and yet has stomped for Obama...
The View? What a riot if it weren't so pathetic....they were practically drooling over Obama and then grilled McCain.

I think Obama is inexperienced and his "change" message is vague and when there are specifics, I shudder. He changed his strategy with the war once he went over there are found out that things were going well. Notice he doesn't cry out to "bring them home" anymore and then changed to afghanistan.

He also changed his opinion about off-shore drilling.

Many of his supporters like him because of his flash, charm, and winning smile and really don't understand his socialist views.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: Presidential Election

#17

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:56 pm

Daniel wrote:http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm

The idea that Obama supports throwing away children who have survived abortion is simply not true. Check the above link out. As Christians, we need to make sure our testimony is true. I feel bad because initially I did spread the smear that he supports infanticide, doing so in ignorance.
My understanding is that the first draft of Born Alive Infant Protection Act (which Obama blocked) was offered up for review "after it was revealed publicly that Christ Hospital left babies who survived abortion — viable babies whose delivery was induced, and whom the abortionist intended to kill but somehow survived — in a utility room to die." (http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm) There were reports even babies born early (for example, at 23 weeks) had been put in the utility room until they expired because there is apparently only something like a 40% chance of their survival.

Now Obama may not have supported this Act, but did he take measures to support language more at home with his pro-abortion beliefs (if that really was the issue)? I think I lend much understanding to people, but this is just black and white to me. The Act was eventually passed when Obama was no longer in state senate and guess what? Abortions are still legal. So much for the excuse a pro-life agenda was trying to be smuggled in (which I have read was the reason Obama was blocking it). So Obama may not have said kill those babies, and positively supported infanticide, but he was quite complacent on the issue and this should raise many red flags.

The other team however have their own issues. I have heard Palin using quite militant language regarding Russia. Far from diplomatic. I guess with her you definitely know what you get, however, America may have some international war blunders and blood on their hands with Maccain-Palin in control.

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Re: Presidential Election

#18

Post by FFC » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:09 am

I don't want McSame.
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Re: Presidential Election

#19

Post by Byblos » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:42 am

FFC wrote:I don't want McSame.
Then you're voting for inexperience, extreme liberalism, government-controlled universal health care (a la tried-and-failed in Canada), government-controlled charity (i.e. increased taxes), weaker military, an even bigger mess in Iraq and the entire region, newly appointed judges that favor abortion of any type, an incoherent, all-directions energy policy, and a host of others.

Although I don't believe McCain will be another Bush, I'll take McSame any day over the take-no-stand-just-vote-present-and-skate-by-so-I-can-get-elected-president Obama.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Presidential Election

#20

Post by psr6782 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:46 am

To the people who cannot get a loan, can't pay off their houses, can't afford gas, and are losing their jobs I believe it would be inherently wrong to condemn them for voting for Obama. These people are sick of the policies of the Bush administration that have deregulated our markets to an out of control state, have spent TRILLIONS of dollars on a war, the premise of which we were lied to about, and will go down as the biggest blunder of a president in U.S. history. Too many Christians I know are voting on issues like same-sex rights, abortion, etc... I attended a Christian youth group sort of thing on my college campus and was told in not so many words that if I vote for Obama I will be burning in Hell. People in tough times cannot vote for McCain who will put this country into more debt and whose economic plans are ridiculous at best, a Sarah Palin who would be a heart-beat away from the presidency that has to complain that Katie Couric is a hard-hitting journalist because she cannot answer simple questions like which newspapers she reads. And speaking of Palin, since someone brought up Rev. Wright, what about the Minister that "laid hands" on her and blessed her and she then gave credit to for getting her where she is. He is a witch-hunter! He went to a town in Kenya riddled in crime and claimed a woman was a witch, and when she wouldn't leave he got a mob together and drove her out of town!

Sorry for the rant.

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Re: Presidential Election

#21

Post by Byblos » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:09 am

psr6782 wrote:To the people who cannot get a loan, can't pay off their houses, can't afford gas, and are losing their jobs I believe it would be inherently wrong to condemn them for voting for Obama.
Then I submit to you that they are voting for the candidate whose party is LARGELY responsible for the financial crisis we're in. Geroge Bush, since 2001, has been begging the democratically controlled congress to reign in Fannie May and Freddie Mac to stop the subprime mess, put in place by none other than the liberal financiers of the Clinton era for the purpose of socializing the American dream of home-ownership. No one listened and so here we are.
psr6782 wrote:These people are sick of the policies of the Bush administration that have deregulated our markets to an out of control state,
Deregulation is not the issue, checks and balances is, and the democratically controlled congress didn't want anything to do with with checks and balances.
psr6782 wrote:have spent TRILLIONS of dollars on a war, the premise of which we were lied to about, and will go down as the biggest blunder of a president in U.S. history.
Very much disagree with you but I won't get into that right now. Suffice it to say the world is a better place without Saddam Hussein.
psr6782 wrote: Too many Christians I know are voting on issues like same-sex rights, abortion, etc... I attended a Christian youth group sort of thing on my college campus and was told in not so many words that if I vote for Obama I will be burning in Hell.
A vote for Obama is a vote for abortion of any kind; you do the math.
psr6782 wrote:People in tough times cannot vote for McCain who will put this country into more debt and whose economic plans are ridiculous at best,
Please tell us what you mean more specifically.
psr6782 wrote: a Sarah Palin who would be a heart-beat away from the presidency that has to complain that Katie Couric is a hard-hitting journalist because she cannot answer simple questions like which newspapers she reads.
So you don't like Palin because she's inexperienced and she will be a heartbeat away from the presidency. How do you justify voting for the most liberal candidate ever who has never run anything and has not a single significant piece of legislature to his name (not even one he voted for, not mere;y attended). Sarah Palin has more executive experience than all the other 3 candidates put together. The fact that she was thrust in the spotlight and made a few mistakes should not prevent her from becoming ready to assume the helm if need be. With Obama he'd be assuming the helm from day one with no experience whatsoever.
psr6782 wrote: And speaking of Palin, since someone brought up Rev. Wright, what about the Minister that "laid hands" on her and blessed her and she then gave credit to for getting her where she is. He is a witch-hunter! He went to a town in Kenya riddled in crime and claimed a woman was a witch, and when she wouldn't leave he got a mob together and drove her out of town!
Even if true (which I'm not sure it is), so what? Did she associate with the man in any way? Did she pal around a known terrorist, hell-bent on hurting his own country? Did she declare him a brother in the cause and could no more disown him than she could disown her white grandmother? Gimme a break.
psr6782 wrote:Sorry for the rant.
That's ok, you're allowed a little incoherence every once in a while (just kidding, really :wave: ).
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Presidential Election

#22

Post by FFC » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:36 am

Byblos wrote:
FFC wrote:I don't want McSame.
Then you're voting for inexperience, extreme liberalism, government-controlled universal health care (a la tried-and-failed in Canada), government-controlled charity (i.e. increased taxes), weaker military, an even bigger mess in Iraq and the entire region, newly appointed judges that favor abortion of any type, an incoherent, all-directions energy policy, and a host of others.

Although I don't believe McCain will be another Bush, I'll take McSame any day over the take-no-stand-just-vote-present-and-skate-by-so-I-can-get-elected-president Obama.
Republican spin notwithstanding....

No, I'm voting for a change from all of the hypocracy, lying, deception, backpeddling, invasion of privacy, Policeman of the world mentality that I have seen from the republican party ala George W and his gang of cronies. I was a republican all of my life until him. As the bumper sticker says "Bush made me a Democrat". Bush put us in the predicament that we are in financially, as well as being hated by the rest of the world because of his arrogance, and I will not be foolish enough to let another republican do that.

I know all about the list of cons, and quite a few I don't agree with regarding the Democratic party, but I'm not voting for someone to legislate morality and values. I get those from the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

But Byblos, if you are not tired of being lied to or having your intelligence insulted, then go right ahead. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. :twisted: :P
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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Re: Presidential Election

#23

Post by Byblos » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:18 pm

FFC wrote:No, I'm voting for a change from all of the hypocracy, lying, deception, backpeddling, invasion of privacy, Policeman of the world mentality that I have seen from the republican party ala George W and his gang of cronies. I was a republican all of my life until him. As the bumper sticker says "Bush made me a Democrat". Bush put us in the predicament that we are in financially, as well as being hated by the rest of the world because of his arrogance, and I will not be foolish enough to let another republican do that.

I know all about the list of cons, and quite a few I don't agree with regarding the Democratic party, but I'm not voting for someone to legislate morality and values. I get those from the Bible and the Holy Spirit.
I understand how you feel, I really do. A lot of people were turned off by George Bush; there's no denying that he made many, many mistakes. Although I believe the premise for the war in Iraq was just, it could have been handled much more inexpensively (in human life first and money second) but you cannot lay the blame squarely on his shoulders either. Congress and the military generals handling the war are just as much to blame. What is most distressing, however, is to see good people like you abandoning principles they believed in throughout their lives based on the actions of one person, albeit a president. The fact that you were a republican all your life doesn't change the fact that you are still a republican, unless you truly did abandon all that you believe in. Are you telling me you are now for abortion or for increasing taxes? Are you saying you now agree with Obama's policies, however non-existent they are? Are you for universal health care, something Hillary tried to peddle and was a disaster then as it is a disaster now in Canada where patients must wait a minimum of 3 to 6 months to have life/threatening surgeries? Are you now against offshore drilling and making us a little energy independent, rather than chase unproven technologies that may or may not work? In the mean time we keep pumping billions into foreign countries who don't always harbor good will towards us? Are you now for taxing American companies who will in turn trickle down these tax increases in the form of price increases and layoffs? And so on and so on and so on... If you truly abandoned all these principles out of conviction then I say good for you as you are being true to your new self. But if you're doing it because you're pissed off at George Bush then you are abandoning everything you believe on emotional grounds and would beg you to reconsider.
FFC wrote:But Byblos, if you are not tired of being lied to or having your intelligence insulted, then go right ahead. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. :twisted: :P
I am trying to bring an honest man into the White House who I believe will clean up this mess without abandoning everything I have always believed in; that is my faith and if that's a sin then so be it.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

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Re: Presidential Election

#24

Post by BavarianWheels » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:33 pm

Byblos wrote:I am trying to bring an honest man into the White House...
LOL...voting in any politician makes this statement oxymoronic.

Simple understanding of the Bible and it's prophecies brings the realization of the inevitable decline of this earth...we cannot stop it...and I don't know why anyone would want to delay it more by bringing in an "honest man".

However the Bible does say:
NIV 1 Thessalonians 5:3 wrote:While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
If I were one that wasted time in voting, I'd vote to keep Obama as far away from the White House as possible!
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Re: Presidential Election

#25

Post by Leprechaun » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:07 pm

I just want to say that you can't claim that socialisation of the health service is a bad thing because as it stands America doesn't have the best health service as it is. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html for those of you not bothered to read the list America is 37th to put that in context Cuba is 39th, Dominica is 35th, Costa Rica is 36th, Saudi Arabia is 26th and Canada? 30th. France tops the lsit and as you can see it's partle state funded: http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/D ... asp?ID=197 so state involovement in health isn't detrimental.

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Re: Presidential Election

#26

Post by FFC » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:23 pm

Byblos wrote:I am trying to bring an honest man into the White House who I believe will clean up this mess without abandoning everything I have always believed in; that is my faith and if that's a sin then so be it.
I'm with you there, buddy. I just have little faith that a republican can do it right now.
"Faith sees the invisible, believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible." - Corrie Ten Boom

Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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Re: Presidential Election

#27

Post by FFC » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:35 pm

Byblos, no matter who we vote in, God is still in charge, plus with the house and the senate we still have safeguards in place to keep things from going too bad. Of course W did a lot of damage, but i guess it could have been worse. :twisted:

Also remember that G-O-P does not spell God. :lol: :lol: :wave:
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Act 9:6
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

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Re: Presidential Election

#28

Post by Daniel » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:48 pm

Blessed are the peacemakers, and I don't view a man who will go on stage and flippantly start singing "bomb bomb Iran" and who has no plans for ending a war that has dragged on five years past President Bush saying "mission accomplished" as a peacemaker. Yes, the world is better without Saddam Hussein. So what? Saddam Hussein is dead now. Ending the war now won't bring him back.

Also, Sen. McCain has a tremendous temper and I kind of worry about what stance he will take.

Yes, we know that the world will end eventually but I think that we, as Christians, are within our rights to try to make the world as best as we can until the time the Lord has chosen to return.

That being said, I do have a great deal of respect for Sen. McCain despite my policy disagreements with him. I do think he would do a better job as president than the incumbent, and I could live with him as president.

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Re: Presidential Election

#29

Post by zoegirl » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:13 pm

byblos wrote:Then I submit to you that they are voting for the candidate whose party is LARGELY responsible for the financial crisis we're in. Geroge Bush, since 2001, has been begging the democratically controlled congress to reign in Fannie May and Freddie Mac to stop the subprime mess, put in place by none other than the liberal financiers of the Clinton era for the purpose of socializing the American dream of home-ownership. No one listened and so here we are.
AMEN!

They have all of the democratic finacial committee members several years ago *on tape* blatantly telling everybody that there was NO reason in the world to mess with Fannie Mae, that there was "no risk" involved in establishing all of these loans, rejcting soundly any attempt to control the mess that FAnnie Mae was in.

Both Obama and McCain have long-term endings to the war, even Obama won't bring them home immediately. I think he is absoilutely naive in his approach to foreign policies, believing in "why-can't we just get along" ideas.

It's one thing if you truly believe in the socailist and liberal economic ideas that Obama is putting forth. But don't vote for him because you think he will be any more honest or capable of some utopian idea of politics. His change is for political, economic socialist liberal goals. If you want that, great, vote for him.

AS for the medical coverage, not saying that its perfect, but it is by no means the worst, no does socialized medicine the way to go. Plenty of people from the U.K., Canada, Europe who struggle and decry their own National Health Care. There are plenty of things we can do without going that way.

But he is not moderate by any means.
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Re: Presidential Election

#30

Post by Cross.eyed » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:51 am

The inexcuseable, inhumane, most discusting, sensless, vile, and barbaric practice of abortion is the #1political issue for me. It is state sponsored murder of our most defensless and vulnerable who are not given a choice of live or die. I cannot and will not vote for anyone who is pro-choice... period.

Now that I have understated my extreme hatred for abortion, I'll move on.

The other day, I was listening to the radio and heard someone ask; "Out of three hundred million people in this nation, we only have Obama and McCain to run for president??

I second that!
I am the wretch the song refers to.

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