Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#46

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:04 pm

Philip wrote:I sincerely hope you're wrong.

They'd never get Congress to approve it, or to send troops to fill any resulting power vacuum. Iraq opened a lot of Americans eyes to the folly of such.

Watch what Lindsay Graham's response is.
I'd love to be wrong, but sadly, doesn't look like I am. I can't find Lindsey's response?

People expect the government would have learnt lessons from Iraq, but what exactly are those lessons? If we're to remove any sort of morality from the equation, which I'm sure is often done by intelligence agencies in pursuit of a country's best interests, then dethroning Assad and de-stabilising Syria would be seen as being in the US' best interests (as well as Israel's).

Having control of Syria would come with many economic spoils, strengthen America's (and Israel's) military foothold in the Middle East, and cause a headache for Iran who'd be next in line for the proxy wars that I see the US wages through military groups that it trains and supports. Iran, however, unlike other states (such as Syria and Libya), kind of have it coming. Iran would be recieving tit-for-tat due to the proxy war it waged/wages against Israel via Hezbollah. Many in Iran also revile the US. So then, strategic-wise, destabilisation of Syria albeit without ISIS in control, would be seen as largely beneficial to US' future national interests. I think the US was hoping ISIS would get Assad though, then they could clean up ISIS and look like the good guys. Instead, due to Russian intervention, it's now the other way round.

As Christians, we do see lessons learnt in Iraq around the pain and suffering caused to people, and then uprising of ISIS which inflicted pain and suffering amongst people including our brothers and sisters in Syria, and so we have a different perspective that rises above national interests. We want the well-being of people everywhere, but I think it's a bit naive to expect those governing our countries to follow the Christian love your neighbour as yourself mantra, and particularly love your enemies like Christ taught would be seen as a bit of a joke.
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#47

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:50 pm

If you've been following the most recent news, Syrian forces going to help the YPG (Kurds) in Afrin against Turkey, it seems contrary to what the Western media portrays of Assad seeking the destruction of his Syrian people.

Why do I say this? Well, let me rewind a number of years. Before I became more acquainted with what was going on, I just bought into the line that Assad was a dictator and the like. I really didn't care much, it was "all over there", the Middle East is just messed up, that's generally what I felt and thought. Then as ISIS started slaughtering people, and I became more aware of the Christian plight (and Syrians in general), what happened in Libya, revisiting what happened in Iraq and the like, I felt sympathy for the people (given Australia is a close US ally) and just wanted to know the truth more.

Over time, it became more obvious to me that the West would run certain narratives, ignoring others to do with US-Western meddling, arming of certain groups and the like. We always like to think we, our countries, always take the moral highground, but that didn't seem to be the case to me. The narrative that Assad used chemical weapons on his own people, such made zero sense, he always denied, and really there were only negatives for Assad and the current Syrian government. It seemed more likley that it was a "false flag" instigated to try inspire civil unrest in the people, strengthen external militant groups who were entering into Syria to overthrow the Syrian government. Many of these groups were affiliated with Al-Qaeda, yet seeing a recording of an Al Nusra leader saying they were trained and armed by the US really cemented that the US was fighting proxy wars via different militant groups, dealing the the "devil" so-to-speak, in order to try topple Assad. In fact, the pattern of what was happening in Syria seemed to be a re-play of Libya and Iraq before.

Now, Mattis has admitted the U.S. has no evidence of Assad using sarin gas at any time, which covers both Assad's alleged use of chemical weapons in 2013 as well as the 2017 incident that Trump struck back with missiles for. France too recently admitted that there is no tangible evidence of a Syrian chemical attack. In fact, the sources which said Assad did use chemical weapons, were likely those same groups wanting to topple Assad. That these were simply "false flags" used, seems to be the most plausible scenario.

Now, we know how much the Kurds (YPG and SDF) hate the Syrian army right? I mean the Syrian army recently lost over a 100 men or the like to them, as the US supported the SDF against the Syrian forces. Yet, the SDF (YPG groups rebranded under a new name) are also now going north to help their YPG comrades against Turkey. So then, what do we think Assad would do? I would have thought the best move would have been to let Turkey wipe out the YPG entirely from the north, and then after, reclaim the Syrian territory. HOWEVER, in a move of diplomacy that I think is both brilliant and forgiving, the Syrian forces it has been said have gone to support the YPG in Afren against Turkey. I believe this open hand has been offered before by the Syrian government, but was previously rejected.

Why would Assad do this? It really goes against the dictator narrative of Assad we have in the West. You know, the one of Assad being like Satan, a tyrant who doesn't care about his people and will do everything to destroy those in opposition. Actions to me speak louder here. There are many Syrian people in Afrin, and other areas, and the Syrian army going there to help the YPG/SDF will help stop many Syrian people dying. The benefits though, are also great as I see diplomacy-wise. For, the US has been supporting the YPG (aka Kurds in Northern Syria) this whole time. The Kurdish-led SDF have spoken about coming for Assad. So for Syria to side with the YPG is a REALLY BIG change in alliances. I'd have thought if anything, Syria would have enjoyed seeing Turkey clear their northorn territrories, and then just reclaiming the likes of Afrin thereafter. BUT no, the Syrian government appears to have acted in the best interest of its people.

Syria's intervention will likely also allow many YPG to escape with their lives, and Turkey will likely withdraw provided the YPG are disarmed and the Syrian government assumes control (for the threat Turkey sees will have been neutralised, and I think Turkey does wish to respect Syria's territory). Further, the US' last card to be played (although perhaps there is one I've missed), of utilising the Kurds to help topple Assad has been neutralised. Funny, it wasn't the US who ended up coming to the aid of the Kurds in their time of need, but rather an enemy who they had been seeking to destroy.

While I dislike many things the YPG have done, in using child and women soldiers, disarming and then disbanding Syrian towns who were then left at the "mercy" of ISIS, and various other stories people are likely unaware to here, the Syrian government here is really showing themselves, in my opinion, as taking the higher moral ground. Who knows, it may even lead, finally, to peace coming to the region, although such is probably too much to hope for.

If any part of what I've written above is believed to be inaccurate or wrong, please provide references so I can read and evaluate. I'm always open to revising my beliefs on these matters, being challenged, for such is how I learn more about the truth.
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#48

Post by Philip » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:13 pm

It's an exceptionally complex situation. Bad guys on every corner. Which is why the West gets caught up in trying to pick an entity to help, often ending up with bad results. But it's always the usual suspects that stir this stuff up. The Persians, various Islamists, the Russians. It's difficult to see what Russia thinks is in this for them - because while they are important players, they've gotten sucked right back into a civil war. And Iran's leaders are madmen - their own people can't afford bread and milk, and yet they are spending vast millions on mayhem. And then there's always former enemies becoming friendemies - that is, until they defeat some entity they both despise - then it'll be right back to the same stuff. Russia and Putin want to be world players, but they don't have the money to do it. I don't think they could fight a long, traditional war. Course, they have nukes and lots of tactical weapons. But their days of empire are likely behind them. Everyone despises them.

I think we best be careful about applying Christ's principles of how to treat other people to warfare situations - nations have every right to fight or align with whatever partner they they helps keep them safe - not saying the West and U.S. haven't made colossal mistakes in the MIddle East - sure they have. But Muslim nations, and particularly nowadays, are very unstable - anything could happen. And so many of those nations have played nice with the fundies amongst them, until they've realized the monster they've help develop. And that Sunni/ Shia divide is as volatile as ever.

I predict the Mullahs in Iran are going to fall, which might set off a civil war. Or, it could happen rather quickly. Iran and Russian - demon leaders in both! Iran's leaders are widely hated, and they are blinded by their evil religion. Immense problem is, the one thing that holds Middleastern societies together is Islam - which is greatly divided across it. There is no one entity that could police a power vacuum that produces widespread violence - except perhaps in various militaries. Egypt almost imploded due to the fanatics. It's armed forces did them all a huge favor. So I don't believe in clean narratives about the region - it's all a tangle. What is in ANY of the media are just bits and pieces of the big picture. I'm a big believer in containment of the spreading of the violence within certain areas. Let them fight it out, but don't let it spill over into a huge, regional conflict. Don't intervene or occupy unless TOTALLY necessary. Tribal societies are always going to be engaged in ongoing warfare - just like before the pre-Columbus Americas. There are always the ambitious opportunists who think they can win and conquer. And the more bunched together in land areas opposing tribes are, the more the mayhem.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#49

Post by Blessed » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 pm

Philip wrote:
I predict the Mullahs in Iran are going to fall, which might set off a civil war. Or, it could happen rather quickly. Iran and Russian - demon leaders in both!

Iran just wants to be left alone.

Vladimir Putin is a good King. And a dedicated Christian.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#50

Post by Kurieuo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:55 pm

Iran wants to be left alone, while waging war against Israel via its proxy Hezbollah.

Consider that Russia have rebuked Iran, stating they won’t accept the statements that Israel should be destroyed and wiped off the map. Consider also that it is Europe who seems to want to protect Iran from Trump's desired economic sanctions aimed at disrupting any nuclear program (unlike Obama before him).

So Iran is perhaps next in line to be targeted, but they placed targets on their own backs. Then again, it could also be Lebanon. Maybe both at the same time.
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#51

Post by Philip » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:22 am

Hopefully, Blessed's last comments were meant as sarcasm.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#52

Post by Blessed » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Philip wrote:Hopefully, Blessed's last comments were meant as sarcasm.
Persia is an ancient country. An ancient nationalist country. Nationalism is unacceptable to Globalists. Iran just wants to survive. Iran is no legitimate offensive military threat to Israel. Nor is Lebanon. Lebanon was attacked by Israel just for Hezbollah being elected. How was that justified?

Russia's "condemnation" of Iran is political chess. It's grandstanding.

You're old enough to remember what America once was. You were born into the most prosperous generation in history (i.e the baby boomers). You remember how things really were. You saw this country go from where it was to where it is: Anti-Christian. Filth. Degeneracy. Gender specific pronouns, Tranny's in Kindergarden class and all the other vile garbage. The USA is not the same country. Yet you seem to believe Russia and Iran are threats.

If you want to know where the threats are coming, specifically to Christianity; they are not coming from a Russian or Iranian boogeyman.

Vladimir Putin is a strong heroic good leader and devout Russian Orthodox Christian. Russia allowed American voters to know the truth about Hillary Clinton.

Everything Russia has done and continues to do is defensive.

Russia lost 26 million soldiers in WWII. Russia defeated Nazi Germany. Russia took the Eastern Bloc as compensation. The situation in Ukraine is the result of the European Union leaders. The same leaders directly responsible for the mass Muslim migration into Western Europe. Brussels enticed Ukraine to join the EU thus NATO by proxy specifically to steal Russia's largest port in the Black Sea, Port Sevastopol, without firing a single shot. In response Russia held an election and invaded after the election results were 90% "leave Ukraine". It was fully justified.

Iran is Russia's ally in the middle east. So is Syria. Iran, Persia, just wants to exist as they have been for thousands of years. They are not a threat to the West. I don't understand how people cling to this dogma...

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#53

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:20 pm

Underneath all of the destractions in the MSM have you all noticed something? Trump has been working with China because both China and Russia claimed they had a plan for North Korea and South Korea and they just had the olympics with both South Korea and North Korea at peace.And we have avoided war with North Korea and have peace talks and so peace between North Korea and South Korea is looking more inevitable now because of Trump putting pressure on China to reign in North Korea,which was one of his campaign promises.The Deep State hates this though as they wanted a war for a destraction that they are not getting.

Also in Syria,Russia has been working with the Syrian government taking out ISIS and Islamic terrorists and they have been so successful that they are about to put pressure on the US to pull out these rogue CIA forces in northern Syria.The MSM pushing Deep State propaganda is claiming that they have the right to remain in Syria,and yet they do not.So I expect Trump to pull them out of Syria in a month or two. This will anger the Deep State but by that time Trump should have control over them. If this happens? This will be two times Trump has out smarted the Deep State and got his way when it comes to foreign policy.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#54

Post by Blessed » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:36 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:I expect Trump to pull them out of Syria in a month or two.
Hmm. Interesting. I say he does not pull out . I would like to place a wager with you on this. Even money. How about ... Bitcoin... today's rate (almost $9,600.00 per coin).. at 1/50 BTC.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#55

Post by Kurieuo » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:42 pm

Trump's latest statement seems to contradict Tillerson's words. Go figure, but seems to me like a good cop, bad cop play to Russia. The US is about, imo, to place blame on "another" Assad regime attack upon the Syrian people in a location not far from Ghouta. I'm quite confident that in the next 30 days UN approved ceasefire, the US and mainstream media will be blaming Assad for something , ie chemical weapons attack, to justify taking him out. I hope such doesn't happen, but then I don't see the US leaving Syria so easily given Tillerson's recent words on regime change. Let's see what happens.
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#56

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:33 pm

Blessed wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:I expect Trump to pull them out of Syria in a month or two.
Hmm. Interesting. I say he does not pull out . I would like to place a wager with you on this. Even money. How about ... Bitcoin... today's rate (almost $9,600.00 per coin).. at 1/50 BTC.
I'm not going to bet but I think Trump will pull them out.I'll admit that he is under intense pressure by the Deep State to keep them in Syria,which is why we are seeing Deep State propaganda in the MSM claiming they have the right to be there to protect the Kurds,but the Kurds have sided with Syria's military and so there is no reason for them to remain in Syria,still the Deep State wants regime change,but they're not going to get it. Everyday Trump is gaining more and more power over them and once he has gained enough power over them then he will pull the troops out.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#57

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:50 pm

Kurieuo wrote:Trump's latest statement seems to contradict Tillerson's words. Go figure, but seems to me like a good cop, bad cop play to Russia. The US is about, imo, to place blame on "another" Assad regime attack upon the Syrian people in a location not far from Ghouta. I'm quite confident that in the next 30 days UN approved ceasefire, the US and mainstream media will be blaming Assad for something , ie chemical weapons attack, to justify taking him out. I hope such doesn't happen, but then I don't see the US leaving Syria so easily given Tillerson's recent words on regime change. Let's see what happens.
I don't think the Deep State will be able to pull off another attack in Syria to blame on Assad though.The Russians found containers of chlorine and took them.The Deep state are doing it in the US with the train crash and the Florida school shooting to destract everybody away from the fact that Trump colluding with the Russians has fallen apart and nobody is buying it anymore and to try to take away our guns too,but nothing is really working for them.Everything they are trying is not really working.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#58

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:49 am

I seriously doubt that the Florida school shooting is like a false flag of sorts or diversionary. Where you getting your information? That's just complete stupidity. Stop doing crack. :P As for chemical weapons, "Deep State" don't need to organise anything, the cards are already stacked. Any chemical weapons attack, by any kind of militia, US will blame Assad and Russia.

As for Trump, even if he didn't want to, will be backed into a corner to take action or people all around, mass media, Democrats and Republicans in his own party will give him hell. Based upon previous actions, he'll strike out to make everyone happy.

The US aren't in Syria just for ISIS, and Trump unless he's completely dense, knows this. His recent statement that the US is there for ISIS and will then pull out is disingenuous.
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#59

Post by RickD » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:56 am

Maybe the Deep State are direct descendent of the Nephilim.
:pound:
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Re: Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

#60

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:02 am

RickD wrote:Maybe the Deep State are direct descendent of the Nephilim.
:pound:
Who are Neanderthals? y:-? Hmm, it's all making sense now.
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