Was Jesus Christ Really Resurrected?

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BGoodForGoodSake
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Re: TO BRIAN

#31

Post by BGoodForGoodSake » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:41 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
jb48237 wrote:
Christian2 wrote:Hello Brian,

You said: I can see why it is difficult to find Christianity true, the Jews don't follow the NT for a reason, they think it is false.

The reason that the Jews do not follow the New Testament is obvious. The New Testament is all about the Messiah, Jesus Christ. This Messiah was the special Messiah that the Jews were waiting for, mentioned throughout the Old Testament. The Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah so, of course, they would reject the NT.
Well, there are some good reasons why the Jews didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah. The most obvious one is that he did not bring the national redemption that the Jews expected.

The idea of "Salvation" as Christians use it is foriegn to Judaism. Jews do not have the same concept of "Sin" either, or any idea at all of "original sin". Yes, I know that Christians find referneces to these thing in the Old Testament, but that is only due to a Christian reading of the OT.
Where's the proof for this one?
Ask the pharasees, and orthodox jews today.

It's not so hard do a little research. There's a whole world of knowledge outside.

Check it out the weathers fine.
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Deborah
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#32

Post by Deborah » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:33 pm

The biggest Problem jesus had with the Pharasees was that they worshiped so they would be patted on the head by their fellow man.
They Judged others, yet thought they were above it.
They could NEVER find his teachings UNSCRIPTURAL. Yet they chose to ignore them.

the teachings and laws of god have not changed ever, before we could be taught to obey god in the spirit we had to know how to obey him in the flesh.

The sacrafices the Old testiment speaks off is off the flesh, it was all outside show, to teach, it was there for a reason.
With the sacrafice of Jesus, who every single one of us are responsable for his death, this was the end of physical sacrafice.
jesus taught that physical things that show are nothing, he taught us to seek a personal spiritual relationship. We were given a spirital gift, Moses already had this gift, so did Abraham, they had already learnt this lesson.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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Re: TO BRIAN

#33

Post by AttentionKMartShoppers » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 pm

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
jb48237 wrote:
Christian2 wrote:Hello Brian,

You said: I can see why it is difficult to find Christianity true, the Jews don't follow the NT for a reason, they think it is false.

The reason that the Jews do not follow the New Testament is obvious. The New Testament is all about the Messiah, Jesus Christ. This Messiah was the special Messiah that the Jews were waiting for, mentioned throughout the Old Testament. The Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah so, of course, they would reject the NT.
Well, there are some good reasons why the Jews didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah. The most obvious one is that he did not bring the national redemption that the Jews expected.

The idea of "Salvation" as Christians use it is foriegn to Judaism. Jews do not have the same concept of "Sin" either, or any idea at all of "original sin". Yes, I know that Christians find referneces to these thing in the Old Testament, but that is only due to a Christian reading of the OT.
Where's the proof for this one?
Ask the pharasees, and orthodox jews today.

It's not so hard do a little research. There's a whole world of knowledge outside.

Check it out the weathers fine.
No linkage? *sigh* I was curious.
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He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
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BGoodForGoodSake
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Re: TO BRIAN

#34

Post by BGoodForGoodSake » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:43 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
BGoodForGoodSake wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
jb48237 wrote:
Christian2 wrote:Hello Brian,

You said: I can see why it is difficult to find Christianity true, the Jews don't follow the NT for a reason, they think it is false.

The reason that the Jews do not follow the New Testament is obvious. The New Testament is all about the Messiah, Jesus Christ. This Messiah was the special Messiah that the Jews were waiting for, mentioned throughout the Old Testament. The Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah so, of course, they would reject the NT.
Well, there are some good reasons why the Jews didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah. The most obvious one is that he did not bring the national redemption that the Jews expected.

The idea of "Salvation" as Christians use it is foriegn to Judaism. Jews do not have the same concept of "Sin" either, or any idea at all of "original sin". Yes, I know that Christians find referneces to these thing in the Old Testament, but that is only due to a Christian reading of the OT.
Where's the proof for this one?
Ask the pharasees, and orthodox jews today.

It's not so hard do a little research. There's a whole world of knowledge outside.

Check it out the weathers fine.
No linkage? *sigh* I was curious.
Here's a link but all you have to do is ... siah.html
Not everyone even beleives that there were messianic prophesies!
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#35

Post by Fortigurn » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:26 am

Powerpoint file on the resurrection of Christ here.

Thread on the parallels between Christ and pagan figures here.

The creation story of Genesis is so radically different from contemporary ktesiological accounts that it's difficult to imagine anyone confusing them, or claiming that one was borrowed from the other, but if you have any specific points to raise, please do so.

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Re: TO BRIAN

#36

Post by Fortigurn » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:28 am

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:Not everyone even beleives that there were messianic prophesies!
It's difficult to deny that there were Messisanic prophecies. The only real dispute is over whether or not Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled them.

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Re: Was Jesus Christ Really Resurrected?

#37

Post by Rakovsky » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:47 pm

CHRISTIAN2,

You quoted from Tom Wrights that the views of 1st century Jews on:
the relation between Messiah and resurrection is not usually clear... Resurrection and Messiah together speak of the time when God will be king and the present rulers (Caesar, Herod, the Sadducees) will be deposed. Together they speak of the coming Reign of God.
Yes, it's not clear to me what that description has to do with resurrection. Does Wright assume that the Reign of God would naturally include resurrection of the dead? Did they think that the Messiah would also die and resurrect?

You quoted from a site that:
All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament where we can see the prophetic teachings of Jesus as... rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10).
Why do you believe that Psalm 16:10 is about the Messiah, since Psalm 16 is titled A Psalm of David? Couldn't it be David speaking poetically about himself in the first person? When David refers to God's Holy One, does he mean the Messiah? Or does he mean each one who is holy? For example, Psalm 89 says: Let the heavens praise thy wonders, O LORD, thy faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!

LITTLESHEPHARD,

You wrote:
while we know the first time it was penned in Scripture, we have no way of knowing that God didn't reveal the coming Resurrection beforehand. It's clear that the Jews had prophecies concerning the resurrection of their Messiah even as early as the reign of King Nimrod of Babylon -- his wife, in fact, started a cult around the idea that her son, Ishtar, had died and was resurrected(in other words, was the man the Jews prophecies spoke of).
What is the first time the coming resurrection was penned in scripture? How do you know that Ishtar's resurrection was connected to Jewish prophecies in Babylonian times?

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Re:

#38

Post by jlay » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:11 pm

Fortigurn wrote:Powerpoint file on the resurrection of Christ here.

Thread on the parallels between Christ and pagan figures here.

The creation story of Genesis is so radically different from contemporary ktesiological accounts that it's difficult to imagine anyone confusing them, or claiming that one was borrowed from the other, but if you have any specific points to raise, please do so.
http://thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: Re: Jesus' Resurrection Would Fulfill Scriptural Prophec

#39

Post by Rakovsky » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:49 pm

JLay,

I am glad to see your post. We need scientific inquiry to ground us in our ideas.

You linked tothe website http://thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html to discuss similarities and differences between Jesus' traits and non-Christian mythical figures.

One idea that supports Christianity though, is that rather than simply borrowing ideas from other cultures, Christianity itself may be based in the ancient Israelite and Jews' Holy scriptures. After reading on the God and Science Forum and reading similar articles, I believe that the scriptures in a poetic way predict that a Messiah would die and resurrect.

So some Christian ideas do come from pre-Christian stories- the Old Testament scriptures themselves! Early Jewish Christians saw the correspondence not as a hindrance but as a confirmation that Jesus was the Christ, because He matched the scriptural prophecies. I wrote about the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection on my website rakovskii.livejournal.com and invite you at yoru leisure to come and see.

Happy Advent and Happy Nativity of Christ

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