Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

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mrtzur2015
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Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#1

Post by mrtzur2015 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:52 pm

So I had this question for a while as many of you know a lot of so called Christians deny the trinity but claim they have the Holy Spirit in them.
As the Spirit of Truth ( Truth being Jesus ) will only testify to the trinity which makes me believe that it is not the Holy Spirit in work in them. So which spirit is it?

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#2

Post by RickD » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:17 pm

mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:52 pm
So I had this question for a while as many of you know a lot of so called Christians deny the trinity but claim they have the Holy Spirit in them.
As the Spirit of Truth ( Truth being Jesus ) will only testify to the trinity which makes me believe that it is not the Holy Spirit in work in them. So which spirit is it?
It doesn't necessarily have to be an evil spirit in them. They could just simply be mistaken about the Holy Spirit being in them. It could also be the case that they are saved, but are just confused about the Trinity. It's faith in Christ that saves, not understanding of the Trinity that saves.

With that said, Unitarianism teaches that Christ is not God. The christ of Unitarianism is a false Christ. And faith in a false Christ, is not a saving faith.
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Philip (Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:53 pm)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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mrtzur2015
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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#3

Post by mrtzur2015 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:40 pm

RickD wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:17 pm
mrtzur2015 wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:52 pm
So I had this question for a while as many of you know a lot of so called Christians deny the trinity but claim they have the Holy Spirit in them.
As the Spirit of Truth ( Truth being Jesus ) will only testify to the trinity which makes me believe that it is not the Holy Spirit in work in them. So which spirit is it?
It doesn't necessarily have to be an evil spirit in them. They could just simply be mistaken about the Holy Spirit being in them. It could also be the case that they are saved, but are just confused about the Trinity. It's faith in Christ that saves, not understanding of the Trinity that saves.

With that said, Unitarianism teaches that Christ is not God. The christ of Unitarianism is a false Christ. And faith in a false Christ, is not a saving faith.
i dont know about that Rick, beliving in Christ therefore knowing him is what saves us therefore how can one say i know God but does not know about its nature? ( i had a lengthy conversation with a oneness petacostal person that claimed he loved God (Jesus) but denies the trinity, there then how can you love something you do not know?)
the Holy Spirit has a big part in salvation, so is the Father how can one deny the Holy Spirit ( or thinking that they are some kind of manifestation same) and say i am saved or believe they are saved?
also everyone who is truely saved will recieve the Holy Spirit its a gift, its part of salvation the "seal" that we will be brought to life when Christ will return therefore i still dont understand how is it possible to be saved and to deny the trinity.
i have been readint this book deep research of ancient aramiac and the times of ancient israelities and it is clear that they knew God in his trinity nature so then when this change has occured ? the pharacies rebuked this idea of Christ being God and called him for his "blasphemy" because they did not understand the nature of God.

one again the question is how can we say we are saved when we do not know Gods nature, which is neccecary for salvation (which God will save you if you do no know him) therefore to Blieve in Christ demands that you know his nature, who he is, why he came and so on.

second question there is I dont know which spirit it would be that lies that way, because even satan has a trinity therefore it couldnt be the spirit of the antichrist.


EDIT:
Romans 10:9–10
if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord
to confuess him as Lord would mean that i have to know him.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#4

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:09 am

If you believe that Christ saves, that believing in Christ saves you, then you must address WHY that is and WHO Christ is.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#5

Post by RickD » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:41 am

mrtzur15 wrote:
one again the question is how can we say we are saved when we do not know Gods nature, which is neccecary for salvation (which God will save you if you do no know him) therefore to Blieve in Christ demands that you know his nature, who he is, why he came and so on.
I think that I see what you're saying. Knowing that Christ is God in the flesh, is essential to knowing who he is, and how we can have eternal life through faith in him.

So, I guess I have two responses:

1) not everyone who is saved, has a full comprehension of the Trinity. Through a believer's walk, Hopefully they are open to understanding more about God.

2) Not having a complete understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity is not the same as an outright denial that any or all of the persons of the Holy Trinity, are indeed God.

And I think the second point is what you were alluding to in your original post.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Philip
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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#6

Post by Philip » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:01 am

I was certainly saved at 7, baptized at 8, and was brought up by Christian parents. So, at 7, I truly believed in my heart and mind in Jesus, asked Him to forgive me up my sins, believed Him to be the resurrected Son of the Father who died for me, and so I commited myself to following Him. It was only much later that I begin to realize that Jesus was also the eternal God, as is the Father and Holy Spirit. And I suspect that is the similar experience of most who come to Christ - especially as a young child. Now, I believe, at some point, all who have placed their faith and commitance to Christ will eventually further understand He is also fully God, and that God is ONE God who is Father, Son, and Spirit - not an easy thing for mature believers to understand, much less for young or new believers to grasp.

However, I think anyone who DENIES Jesus to be GOD should be viewed as potentially unsaved, and certainly so if they deny the Resurrection or necessity of having faith in Christ to be saved. And yet, what I personally can't know about whatever a person doesn't YET understand about Jesus' eternalness and Deity is between themself and God. And while I will always strive to respectfully aprise them of that truth, I'll trust God to make Christ's Deity clear to every true Believer who has faith in Him.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#7

Post by mrtzur2015 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:07 pm

Philip wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:01 am
I was certainly saved at 7, baptized at 8, and was brought up by Christian parents. So, at 7, I truly believed in my heart and mind in Jesus, asked Him to forgive me up my sins, believed Him to be the resurrected Son of the Father who died for me, and so I commited myself to following Him. It was only much later that I begin to realize that Jesus was also the eternal God, as is the Father and Holy Spirit. And I suspect that is the similar experience of most who come to Christ - especially as a young child. Now, I believe, at some point, all who have placed their faith and commitance to Christ will eventually further understand He is also fully God, and that God is ONE God who is Father, Son, and Spirit - not an easy thing for mature believers to understand, much less for young or new believers to grasp.

However, I think anyone who DENIES Jesus to be GOD should be viewed as potentially unsaved, and certainly so if they deny the Resurrection or necessity of having faith in Christ to be saved. And yet, what I personally can't know about whatever a person doesn't YET understand about Jesus' eternalness and Deity is between themself and God. And while I will always strive to respectfully aprise them of that truth, I'll trust God to make Christ's Deity clear to every true Believer who has faith in Him.
For you to know he’s the son of the father you must understand that there is a father and there is a son. They cannot be the same person.
What makes us believe that he has the power and authority to forgive sin if he is not God?
By forgiving sin he claimed to be God.. which is why the pharmacies thought he is blaspheming.

I am not saying that everyone is like me but God has reveled the trinity to me before I repented and we’re saved.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#8

Post by Philip » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:08 pm

Mrtzur: For you to know he’s the son of the father you must understand that there is a father and there is a son. They cannot be the same person.
They are NOT the same PERSON. As they are both each a person of the same / ONE God.
Mrtzur: What makes us believe that he has the power and authority to forgive sin if he is not God? By forgiving sin he claimed to be God.. which is why the pharmacies thought he is blaspheming.
Of course - Jesus is fully God!
Mrtzur: I am not saying that everyone is like me but God has reveled the trinity to me before I repented and we’re saved.
Then you are unique. My sons both knew this very early on - because I taught them the correct theological understanding. Notice, while Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is God, and said there is no path to the Father except through the Son, nowwhere does it explicitly say one must believe the Son is GOD, as it only teaches that one must believe Jesus is the resurrected Son of the Father. I personally think why this isn't a stated requirement is that the concept of the Trinity, of three Persons all equally being the ONE God, is a very difficult concept for finite beings to grasp. As well as, God at some point will fully bring all believers to this understanding. However, if one were to deny Jesus to be God's Son, or to suggest Him to be a mere man, or to deny His resurrection, to say He is of another God (like Allah, etc.), or that their are other gods, then I'd say they are not - or yet - saved. But if you ask most Trinity believing Christians if they understood Jesus to be God back when they first committed themselves to Him, they would likely say they did not.

I'll add that, for a very long time, I considered people who believe in Jesus as the Son without also believing Him to be God, to have been unsaved.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#9

Post by mrtzur2015 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Philip wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:08 pm
Mrtzur: For you to know he’s the son of the father you must understand that there is a father and there is a son. They cannot be the same person.
They are NOT the same PERSON. As they are both each a person of the same / ONE God.
Mrtzur: What makes us believe that he has the power and authority to forgive sin if he is not God? By forgiving sin he claimed to be God.. which is why the pharmacies thought he is blaspheming.
Of course - Jesus is fully God!
Mrtzur: I am not saying that everyone is like me but God has reveled the trinity to me before I repented and we’re saved.
Then you are unique. My sons both knew this very early on - because I taught them the correct theological understanding. Notice, while Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is God, and said there is no path to the Father except through the Son, nowwhere does it explicitly say one must believe the Son is GOD, as it only teaches that one must believe Jesus is the resurrected Son of the Father. I personally think why this isn't a stated requirement is that the concept of the Trinity, of three Persons all equally being the ONE God, is a very difficult concept for finite beings to grasp. As well as, God at some point will fully bring all believers to this understanding. However, if one were to deny Jesus to be God's Son, or to suggest Him to be a mere man, or to deny His resurrection, to say He is of another God (like Allah, etc.), or that their are other gods, then I'd say they are not - or yet - saved. But if you ask most Trinity believing Christians if they understood Jesus to be God back when they first committed themselves to Him, they would likely say they did not.

I'll add that, for a very long time, I considered people who believe in Jesus as the Son without also believing Him to be God, to have been unsaved.
The saving truth would necessarily had to include that Jesus is God otherwise how would he save you? How would he forgive your sin?
Why would you ,make a random person your Lord?
Also calling him my Lord kind of gives it up no?
I don’t understand how one can believe they are saved without knowing this truth or without knowing the true nature of God.


But aren’t we saved the moment the Holy Spirit joins us and makes a home in our Heart? I means he is the seal.. the promise that God has adopted you and bought you with the blood of Jesus. God does not change his mind.
So I am guessing it’s not for me to understand who is saved but just let God do his part.

I just don’t want people to miss on eternity with God for mere stubbornness “there is no trinity” though you show them scriptures that clearly support it.
Makes me think about atheists who claim “there is no God” and “the Bible is a bunch of stories created to amuse us” .
When asked if they actually read the Bible they say no. So how can one establish an opinion on something they do not know for themselves?
They are just following traditions and what other men believe and if that is what we are doing we are not saved .
No one can serve two masters.

I know someone who is very active in church he is preaching the Word has he understands it and I know a lot of people came to Jesus because of his testimony. I guess I am just afraid his works are in vain if he preaching semi truths.

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Re: Which spirit is it that testifies of unitarians?

#10

Post by Philip » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:28 pm

Mrtzur: " just don’t want people to miss on eternity with God for mere stubbornness “there is no trinity."
People only miss salvation by rejecting God / Christ. While we can expose them to the truth of Jesus' Deity, only God can open their eyes to it. However, again, I think there is a big difference in rejecting Jesus and in embracing His Sonship and His resurrection but not YET knowing He is also fully God. If they are open to knowing this truth, God will certainly show them, at some point. I know very few obviously saved Believers who knew this when they first believed - especially if they came to belief at a very young age. Again, believing this is never explicitedly taught in Scripture as a criteria for salvation. So don't YOU make it one.

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