K in his response to you Nils on mention myself and others and how we'd respond
Nils wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:50 am
Kurieuo wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:55 am
Re longing, you are confusing cause with causation. Hana didn't long after God, not initially. There is no catch-22. There is no argument here being made to you either, other then telling you (well trying) as it is froma Christian pov.
That’s OK if you are clear about it. But if you give an advice what an atheist should do you have to take into account the atheist POV. Only referring to a Christian doctrine is not significant.
Kurieuo wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:55 am
Scripture says none of us seek after God. If true, this means we wilfully deny and bury God if we are rejecting Him. Our mind and reason is clouded due to the nature of our hearts. Yet, it is our response to God's drawing and calling to us, an inner openness, that eventually allows us to truly seek and long for God. No one starts out necessarily longing, but if you reject God until the day you die then it is because you wilfully ignored and buried him whether or not you consciously see that you do.
This is incomprehensible to me. I don’t reject God, I believe that there is no God, that’s a big difference. Still less I ignore and bury him (whatever “bury” could mean in this context). I don’t ignore the idea of a God. I have debated with you and others here on this site and with other through almost my whole life. That’s not ignoring. But I have come to the conclusion that there is no God and that decision was and is totally independent of my will.
Now you may say that what you said above was the Christian point of view and that I don’t have to agree or even understand. But then communication ends.
If I anyhow try to interpret you message: There are persons like me that have some kind of defect heart (even if I never understood that talk about “heart”). Those persons aren’t reached by God’s calling and therefore they are sent to hell when they die. No problem with that even if I don’t like the idea and certainly wouldn’t call such a God good.
Finally a question to you. Do you agree with Philip when he says that it is not complicated to ask for God to reveal himself (assuming a reasonable chance to get some answer)?
Kurieuo wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:22 pm
....I'm sure if you ask Hana, PaulS, B.W., Phil (?) and many others here who were quite Atheistic but now Christian, they now see what they were previously so blind to -- and perhaps, are unable to explain such except to say they just didn't/couldn't see God....
Way back in the day when I was an atheist, I was blind to my own pride.
I defended hate, immorality, sexual immorality, lifestyle choices, anything goes concepts, addictions - neglecting to actually see all the disease, family ruin, decay, abuse, broken homes abandonment, pain of rejection, and the control issues that these things brought to life on people.
I thought hate, all immorality, lifestyle choices, anything goes mindset, addictions were great virtues worthy of defending as the fullest expression of intelligence, reason, logic, and freedom from a oppression.
Then, I saw friends and their families fractured. Son's being unmercifully beaten and berated by drunken parents. Saw the high cost of on kids souls who witnessed divorce.
I saw how cold austere aloof families could be toward their own and the damage that inflects. I was in full support of all manner of drugs and alcohol consumption despite the evidence of how these turned folks into animals, including myself.
I hated the morality of the bible and viewed it as the cause for all these things, yet,the practitioners of these sorts of things rarely or never went to church. I needed a scapegoat to accuse and guess what - God of the bible was convenient. So, I lived my life mocking him and challenging him to prove himself.
He did. I saw how wrong I was and how humanity is the cause of evil in this world and that God came to fix it. I discovered how true these words were:
"...And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
John 3:19 NKJV
The word evil in Greek has a root meaning of warping and twisting things to justify ones's actions as justified, without fault, that corrupts others... and diseases them with the same maladies one has and is blind too.
"... people loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds are warping and twisting things to justify ones's actions as justified, without fault, that corrupts others... and diseases them with the same maladies one has and is blind too."
I refused to see how I contributed to the stench with the world....
For everyone practicing (what warps and twist and corrupts) hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
John 3:20 expanded Greek Meaning
Why - because I did not want to be exposed but rather justify myself by my great logic, intellect, reason, deeds and my definition of what good is. That is called pride.
Then I was confronted by God with how I contributed to the stench in the world again, again...
"But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
John 3:21 NKJV
What and who I found was and is God who created the universe and paid the full price to wake a stupid prideful ignorant person up to how I 'make' things worse in the world and corrupt others as well as completely unable to right my own wrongs.
I took a hard look at life and how short it is seeing it is we human beings that poke God in the eye always double dog daring him to go against his own character and nature by pitting these against themselves to justify ourselves as the noblest of all beings on the planet. But - then - you die and what use is such nobility anyways???
Going off into a state of non-existence with a self gratifying smirk on ones face is not very satisfying when nothing at all is your only reward because those that come after you will erase any good you might have done in a second.
I discovered the hard way, life continues after death and there is an accounting that exposes the real you to yourself and how real God is in peoples lives trying to wake them up to how warped in thought and deeds they are. But then, it is too late.
As an atheist, I too once scoffed at that, just like so many do today, never seeing that one's own scoffing and mocking God is proof the God does indeed exist. How, God restrains from wiping us all out. He gives us an offer of grace so we can return back to Him all through our short - short - short - mortal life, instead.
You can refuse the evidence in nature and all creation of his existence. You can refuse all the times he spared your life from accident that defy logical reason for survival and pass it off to mere odds and coincidence.
You can spend you time only focusing on the hypocrites in the Christians church as the norm. You can continue justify lifestyles that cause harm, abuse, addictions, immorality, sexual immorality, lust, envy, revenge, bitterness as the highest form of good to inflict all so justifiably so.
Yet, you cannot see how you are pitting God's own traits against each other in order to absolve yourself. You cannot see how He pleads to you to return to him in so many ways: by dreams, warnings from people like myself, from creation, and from the hopelessness that atheism defends with its final smug smirk on ones face after they die that they lived a good life is absolutely absurd failing to see humanity is hell bent on erasing such goodness.
Have a Nice day