God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

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LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#256

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:15 am
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
sure it can... again...
Read Exodus 19-24... It's all right there..
I have.
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong...
Christ is not righteous because he keeps the Law.
Christ is able to keep the law BECAUSE he is righteous.
That IS more correct. Agreed. However the point being that the Law either condemns or it doesn't...and it doesn't condemn Christ because He IS righteous....and being righteous means He is NOT guilty of committing sin...which the Law is the measure thereof.
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Rhetorical question... I think you know the answer...
Was anyone ever saved by keeping the Old Covenant?
Rhetorical answer: YES! They had the assurance of God's promise/salvation in the same manner we have assurance in God's promise/salvation fulfilled in Christ. Abraham was declared righteous THROUGH faith! It doesn't say Abraham would eventually be declared righteous... No one has been saved yet, literally. Christ's reward is with Him... Revelation 22:12

We are still in this body of sin.
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Almost but not quite... OT saints were saved through faith in YHWH not faith in the Old Covenant.
The object of saving faith has always been YHWH (and Jesus is YHWH).
God cannot save without blood! Hebrews 9:22 If it were simply YHWH, there would be no need for the law...the covenant spoken of in Hebrews 9:22
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
If that is your position then your position is not Scriptural.
The Law is not the ONLY function to show people their sinfulness.
See Romans 1:18-20 and Romans 2:14-15
Heh...are you suggesting that the Law functions as a showing of God's wrath? Because I'm talking about the 10...not arguing about God's wrath, God's existence nor God being Creator...which Romans 1:18-20 is speaking about.

I've highlighted what this text is referring to plainly:
Romans 1:18-20 NIV wrote:The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
People are without excuse about God's power and divine nature.

Romans 2:14-15 is speaking exactly about the Law ( the 10 ) point out sin or basic morals intrinsic in God's creation of Man.
Romans 2:14-15 NIV wrote:14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
The Law points at sin ( to the believer ) and to "objective" morality to the unbeliever by their own conscience.

You haven't proven it has another function.
DBowling wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
I know exactly what a conditional statement is.
And I also know that an if/then statement is by definition a conditional statement.

Now here's Exodus 19:5
5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine

I hilighted the "if" for you and I hilighted the "then" for you.
According to Exodus 19:5 the Covenant that YHWH established with Israel at Sinai is by definition (if/then) a conditional covenant.
I thought we had already agreed that there is no salvation in following the Law ( the 10 )...how is it then that you're continually ADDING in the 10 as a condition...you said even "if/then". God's covenant is NOT IF you keep my 10 commandments THEN you will be saved. The covenant is if you keep my law, the covenant ( the law that describes the shadow of Christ's blood to come ) then you will be saved! That's the covenant.

The 10 are simply the MECHANISM that CURSES one as a sinner that needs a blood covering.

You know what conditional is, but you're then applying it to something WE'VE agreed is impossible to keep. Therefore the 10 are NOT part of the condition to be kept.

It's simply not logical.
.
.
since the title is " is the commandments still valid"... The answer is YES... it is not hard to keep the commandments if you actually make an effort to go by them... If they were not still valid then Jesus nor the Apostles would have made references to keep them in their letters and ministries.

How can they not be Valid when God placed them in our inward parts and in our hearts???... seriously why is this even a question in the first place...

If you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ then you don't have God. 2 John 9 Whosoever transsgresseth, and abide not in the doctrine of Christ, Hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son.

Since the commandments are ordinances then this also applies from Paul Romans 13:1,2 1 LET every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: The powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#257

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:03 pm

RickD wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:06 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:05 pm
RickD wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:50 am
BavarianWheels wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:39 am
RickD wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 2:29 pm
warren631,

Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

And no, I'm not asking if you if you believe Jesus Christ is the Father.
RickD,

Do you believe Jesus is the God of Genesis, the Creator, YHWH, the owner of the finger that wrote on tablets of stone...?

And no, I'm no asking if you if you believe Jesus Christ is the Father.

For Ref: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41367&p=236878#p236831
And as I've said multiple times, and am getting tired of repeating, whether God wrote the 10 commandments with His literal or figurative finger, is irrelevant to your argument, because the 10 commandments were not given to gentile believers.
Actually , in Jeremiah 31:33 where God states that he will put his laws in their inward parts and in their hearts, so his laws were for everyone not just the Jews. Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also;.
Which laws? All Old Testament laws?

If not, why not?
The laws God placed within us are his commandments, and by adoption we are to follow them... the Jewish laws, the mosaic laws, contained the ten commandments in them but the mosaic laws were only for the Jews. Back then that is how they distinguished themselves in their religion from the rest of the religions of the time.. If you are born a Jew then you are bound by Jewish law, if you are born into Christianity the Jewish law, mosaic law, does not apply. Any person who is not of Jewish decent is a Gentile...

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#258

Post by DBowling » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#259

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice.

sorry but those who feel that Jesus died to free us from the commandments have not read the Bible fully... I mean you can "read the Bible" but to fully comprehend it you must put yourself in the same mindset as if you were living in that time... Not being rude but basic reading comprehension works in this aspect.

you have to put in work to show your faith because without it faith is dead and if faith is dead, where is Grace?

James 2 17-26 "14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#260

Post by DBowling » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works

LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#261

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works
No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice... And you are only saved when you trully commit yourself to the authority of God and show your commitment to him by the showing of your works... Faith without works is dead and grace without faith is also dead because without the works you cannot show the Glory of God and your commitment to Him.

James 2:17-19 "17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Faith encompasses everything.. without faith you cannot have grace, without grace you cannot have salvation... so if you take into account that Jesus only paid the blood sacrifice then the old covenant is still intact with the acceptation that we no longer have top provide the sacrifice.

that is how people get things twisted is because they segregate everything instead of looking at the entire picture plus it shows that no one actually pays attention to the teachings of Chris nor his doctrine. If they actually paid attention, then there would be no confusion.

Society is not yet ready for full disclosure because they still hold true to the common belief that all they have to do is accept Christ and God will do the rest and the, my friend, is taking the LORDs name in vain.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#262

Post by DBowling » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:29 pm
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel

and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works
No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...
Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#263

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:20 am

RickD wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:30 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:27 am
Is there any of the 10 commandments that you think you SHOULDN'T follow/ obey ?
I'll answer your question with a question, to hopefully show you what I mean.

Should someone in Florida follow/obey laws in California?
Federal laws?

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#264

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:22 am

People always quote James about "good works" and then they fail to mention WHAT good works He actually goes on to talk about.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#265

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:24 am

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#266

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:26 am

Not even ONE mention of a Law...

James is stating TWO things:
1) with faith COMES works, not for salvation or justification but good works spring forth from faith with NO ULTERIOR MOTIVE.
2) Doing good works with correct intent ( doing right because it is right and for no other reason) is a sign of God working through people.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#267

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 am

Actually... according to Jeremiah 31 the New Covenant would be a different covenant from the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

I think it is important to note that the New Covenant (which Jesus established) was a new covenant with the "House of Israel".

However, anyone (Jew or Gentile) who places their faith and trust in Jesus (the Jewish Messiah and King of the Jews) becomes "Abraham's seed" and enters into the New Covenant that Jesus established with the "House of Israel".
Galatians 3:26-29
I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works
No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...
Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???

so with that being said, Hebrews 8:6-13 is satisfied as is Jeremiah 31:31-33...

No covenant exisits, anywhere, that states we are free of the law of God nor that Christ died to release us from it...

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#268

Post by RickD » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:39 am

PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:20 am
RickD wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:30 pm
PaulSacramento wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:27 am
Is there any of the 10 commandments that you think you SHOULDN'T follow/ obey ?
I'll answer your question with a question, to hopefully show you what I mean.

Should someone in Florida follow/obey laws in California?
Federal laws?
Paul,

The point I'm trying to make, is that I don't need to follow the 10 commandments, to know that I ought not murder my neighbor. I don't live my life striving to follow the 10 commandments.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#269

Post by DBowling » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:11 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:14 am


I would have to disagree because the covenant that was established with the death and resurrection of Christ was only to do away with blood sacrifice because, even back in the day, they would sacrifice and still continue to commit the same sin knowing that all they had to do was perform the sacrifice and all would be forgiven.
You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works
No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...
Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???
Again...
You are confusing two different things.
You are confusing the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24 with God's moral law or the law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15).

God's moral law (ie the law written on our hearts) is applicable for everyone, Jew or Gentile.
Even though the Old Covenant contains God's moral law. God's moral law is applicable because it transcends the Old Covenant (see Mat 5-7), not because it is part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13 explicitly states that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant obsolete
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
That's not me saying that... that's Scripture.

That said, God's moral law is consistent throughout both the Old and New Covenants.

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Re: God's Ten Commandments? Still valid?

#270

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:30 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:11 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:35 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:31 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:04 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:24 am

You are confusing two different topics...

The topic you address in your post is the relationship between faith and works.

The relationship between faith and works is related to but different from the relationship between the Old Covenant that God established with Israel in Exodus 19-24 and the New Covenant that Jesus established with his death and resurrection.

I was discussing the Old Covenant vs New Covenant and whether Gentiles (or even Jews for that matter) are still under the Old Covenant.
And Hebrews 8:13 answers that question clearly and succinctly.


As for the relationship between faith and works, Ephesians 2:8-10 summarizes things quite nicely

We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith...
NOT BY works
but TO DO good works
No I have not confused the topics at all.. The old covenant is still in place the only thing that has changed is that we no longer have to provide the blood sacrifice because Christ has already provided the blood sacrifice...
Jeremiah 31:31-33 and especially Hebrews 8:6-13 say you are wrong.
Your disagreement is with Scripture not me.

Feel free to point me to any Scripture to support your assertion that the Old Covenant is still in effect today.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
the covenant that is new is that we shall no longer teach "Do you know God". this was the new covenant not a covenant where we Jesus died to free us from the laws of God nor was any of the teachings of Christ a contradiction to the old covenant.

So with the knowledge of Truth being placed within our hearts and inward parts, we know God from birth and are bound to him Always. because the written commandments were not obeyed God placed them into us so that they will be there and cannot be avoided... How can you avoid something that is a part of your being???
Again...
You are confusing two different things.
You are confusing the Old Covenant that God made with the House of Israel in Exodus 19-24 with God's moral law or the law written on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15).

God's moral law (ie the law written on our hearts) is applicable for everyone, Jew or Gentile.
Even though the Old Covenant contains God's moral law. God's moral law is applicable because it transcends the Old Covenant (see Mat 5-7), not because it is part of the Old Covenant.

Hebrews 8:6-13 explicitly states that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant obsolete
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
That's not me saying that... that's Scripture.

That said, God's moral law is consistent throughout both the Old and New Covenants.
Hence the title of this thread as to whether Gods law is Valid or not the answer would be, Yes by your own statement because God's law transcends.. Meaning that we are to obey it no matter what... no confusion anywhere...

Jesus Lived by the Law of God and taught others to do the same... Even said" if ye love me keep my commandments" his acceptance of the laws as the authority they became his laws because he knew that they were the foundation of everything...

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