since the title is " is the commandments still valid"... The answer is YES... it is not hard to keep the commandments if you actually make an effort to go by them... If they were not still valid then Jesus nor the Apostles would have made references to keep them in their letters and ministries.BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:15 amI have.That IS more correct. Agreed. However the point being that the Law either condemns or it doesn't...and it doesn't condemn Christ because He IS righteous....and being righteous means He is NOT guilty of committing sin...which the Law is the measure thereof.
Rhetorical answer: YES! They had the assurance of God's promise/salvation in the same manner we have assurance in God's promise/salvation fulfilled in Christ. Abraham was declared righteous THROUGH faith! It doesn't say Abraham would eventually be declared righteous... No one has been saved yet, literally. Christ's reward is with Him... Revelation 22:12
We are still in this body of sin.
God cannot save without blood! Hebrews 9:22 If it were simply YHWH, there would be no need for the law...the covenant spoken of in Hebrews 9:22
Heh...are you suggesting that the Law functions as a showing of God's wrath? Because I'm talking about the 10...not arguing about God's wrath, God's existence nor God being Creator...which Romans 1:18-20 is speaking about.
I've highlighted what this text is referring to plainly:
People are without excuse about God's power and divine nature.Romans 1:18-20 NIV wrote:The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Romans 2:14-15 is speaking exactly about the Law ( the 10 ) point out sin or basic morals intrinsic in God's creation of Man.
The Law points at sin ( to the believer ) and to "objective" morality to the unbeliever by their own conscience.Romans 2:14-15 NIV wrote:14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
You haven't proven it has another function.
I thought we had already agreed that there is no salvation in following the Law ( the 10 )...how is it then that you're continually ADDING in the 10 as a condition...you said even "if/then". God's covenant is NOT IF you keep my 10 commandments THEN you will be saved. The covenant is if you keep my law, the covenant ( the law that describes the shadow of Christ's blood to come ) then you will be saved! That's the covenant.DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 amI know exactly what a conditional statement is.
And I also know that an if/then statement is by definition a conditional statement.
Now here's Exodus 19:5
5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine
I hilighted the "if" for you and I hilighted the "then" for you.
According to Exodus 19:5 the Covenant that YHWH established with Israel at Sinai is by definition (if/then) a conditional covenant.
The 10 are simply the MECHANISM that CURSES one as a sinner that needs a blood covering.
You know what conditional is, but you're then applying it to something WE'VE agreed is impossible to keep. Therefore the 10 are NOT part of the condition to be kept.
It's simply not logical.
How can they not be Valid when God placed them in our inward parts and in our hearts???... seriously why is this even a question in the first place...
If you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ then you don't have God. 2 John 9 Whosoever transsgresseth, and abide not in the doctrine of Christ, Hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son.
Since the commandments are ordinances then this also applies from Paul Romans 13:1,2 1 LET every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: The powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
So God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and then placed them into our inward parts and in our hearts Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.